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Thread: Cheesing all of Hellas in under 10 turns as KH [2.35a R3]

  1. #1

    Default Cheesing all of Hellas in under 10 turns as KH [2.35a R3]

    R3 brought one crucial change, which was doubling army movement and DRASTICALLY boosting naval movement. This significantly changes the strategy of KH in the early game, and with a few smart moves and heroic victories (and game engine exploits you can probably justify with roleplaying storytelling) you can control all of Hellas within 10 turns.

    Turn 1

    Have your diplomat in Hellas arrange an easy ceasefire with the invading Epeirotes... after they give you 2.5k mnai. Then have them dance around like a monkey and make animal noises. It works, trust me

    Have your diplomat in Alexandreia sell map information to the Ptolemies for 300 mnai

    Have your diplomat in Byzantion sell map information to the Getai for 300 mnai

    Use the fleet in Alexandreia to move both FMs and hoplites from Rhodes to near Korinth. Then disband the two ships

    Use the fleet in the Black Sea to move Areus and his elite infantry from Krete to near Korinth. Then disband the two ships

    Coalesce all your FMs and heavy troops into a stack, flesh it out with Thessalian Cavalry, Hellenistic Cavalry, Scythian Archers, Cretan Archers and Mercenary Hoplites, and besiege Korinthos

    Train one Classical Hoplite and one Elite Hoplite in Athens

    Have your remaining light troops and cavalry wipe out the tiny Makedonian stack in Chalcis

    Turn 2

    Have your diplomat in Alexandreia travel to Rekem and sell map information to the Nabataeans for 300 mnai

    Have your diplomat in Thracia travel to Skythiapolis and sell map information to the Sauromatae for 300 mnai

    Have your diplomat in Hellas arrange another ceasefire in the wake of the scripted assault on Sparta by Kleonymes... after they pay you another 2.5k and you make the exiled Sparthan hoot like an owl in front of his troops

    Conquer Korinthos and sack it

    Kill the retreating Pyrrhos. Allow the disgraced Kleomynes to retreat back to Ambrakia

    Move your uber stack to Demetrias along with your light troops from Chalcis and newly recruited hoplites, hire all remaining cavalry mercenaries, and besiege that settlement

    Turn 3

    Have your diplomat in Nabataea travel to Antiochea and sell map information to the Seleucids for 300 mnai

    Have your diplomat in Skythia travel to Bosphorus and sell map information to the KB for 300 mnai

    Antigonus will actually have recalled his army from Pella and try to relieve Demetrias on AI Makedon's turn 2. Defeat them all thus ending the Makedonians

    Kleomynes, forced by the campaign script, will attempt to assault Sparta on AI Epeiros's turn 2, but having no siege equipment, will lose automatically

    Take your uber-stack and besiege Pella, which is still controlled by Epeiros

    Turn 4

    Have your diplomat in Syria sell map information to the Hai for 300 mnai

    Take Pella and defeat the spawned Celtic army near that settlement. Swing them back towards Thermon

    Have your diplomat in Hellas arrange yet another cease with Kleomynes... for 2.5k again. Also make him wear a Spartan thigh-exposing dress and invite all his soldiers to spank him

    Turn 5

    Besiege Thermon. The roving stack will attempt to relieve the siege on AI Rebels turn 5. Defeat both and sack Thermon

    Turn 6

    Invade Epeiros, hiring as many mercenaries as possible, and besiege Ambrakia. An anti-decapitation army will spawn at the end of Epeiros turn 6

    Turn 7

    Defeat the relief force and occupy Ambrakia

    Turn 8

    Besiege Epidamnos. The roving stack will attempt to relieve the siege on AI Rebels's turn 8. Defeat both and occupy the settlement

    Conclusion

    With an extra 2 turns resulting from unforeseen incidents, you can confidently conquer all of Hellas in under 10 turns. Don't feel guilty about abusing the game engine. Just tell yourself that Kleomynes is very easy to convince, shelling over gobs of cash from the Epeirote treasury and degrading himself in front of his troops. It helps me sleep at night

  2. #2

    Default Re: Cheesing all of Hellas in under 10 turns as KH [2.35a R3]

    So as Epirus even a couple of versions ago you can wipe macedonia before they have a chance to take Pella.

    I suspect the same thing is significantly easier now.

    I think for purely engine reasons the whole region is pretty exploitable.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Cheesing all of Hellas in under 10 turns as KH [2.35a R3]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunydii View Post
    So as Epirus even a couple of versions ago you can wipe macedonia before they have a chance to take Pella.

    I suspect the same thing is significantly easier now.

    I think for purely engine reasons the whole region is pretty exploitable.
    How? With the new version, I've tried to siege Demetrias while Antigonus is busy besieging Pella, thinking I could take it quickly and make his army into rebels. With the new enhanced movement, he had enough oomph left to come down south, beat me down outside of Demetrias and go back north to finish off the siege of Pella too, all in the same turn.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Cheesing all of Hellas in under 10 turns as KH [2.35a R3]

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor1234 View Post
    How? With the new version, I've tried to siege Demetrias while Antigonus is busy besieging Pella, thinking I could take it quickly and make his army into rebels. With the new enhanced movement, he had enough oomph left to come down south, beat me down outside of Demetrias and go back north to finish off the siege of Pella too, all in the same turn.
    So the way it "used" to work:

    1) pyrrhus besieges Corinth

    2) take son 2 (alexandros?) to besiege Demetrias hire mercs (I'd presume you could now bring some garrison troops too)

    3) Antigonus sieges Pella - I'm fairly sure he was coded to auto siege, this may have changed hence it being a bit harder.

    4) you take both cities before he can take pella

    I will add i stopped doing this just about as soon as I realised I could...

    even if its now harder id expect you could now:

    1) leave some of pyrrhus' troops to take Corinth

    2) lead most of the army past athens to take Demetrias + Alexandros + Mercs

    3) either win the stack vs stack fight or repeat 4 depending on what the Mac ai does / can do

    this is only a semi serious suggestion but I almost wish macadonia went horde on defeat. its nearly impossible not to eliminate them within 20 turns as Epirus. imo Pella is the most important province anywhere near your sphere of influence. you need it. but you also (due to the reforms) need sparta. Corinth and Athens are both wealthy, powerful cities so you're likely to take them to protect sparta and try and rescue your economy and its hard to leave macadonia with Demetrias as it'd likely split your territory in two by a hostile state with full ai cash-flow assistance. I'd even be tempted to reduce the troops in thermon. I dont like the idea of making life easier in what can be a fairly touch and go opening for Epirus but I - really - wish i could find a way to stabilise as anything other than a peripheral power without taking out the Macedonians


    I should have added:

    KH have rhodes and Epirus Ambrakia meaning you have to go out of your way to eliminate either, something that isnt the case for macadonia.
    Last edited by Gunydii; July 19, 2021 at 11:50 AM.

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