Democracy leads to dictatorship or an oligarchy?

[The Walrus]

Do you think democracy can/will lead to dictatorships or oligarchy because of terrorism? The government will slowly take away freedoms to "help protect the country and combat terrorism." Eventually, this will lead to a dictatorship with normal citizens having some or no freedoms. The majority of people will be too afraid of terrorism and let the government do this. People would live in a false reality of "freedom." The government would be too use to this new power to give it back. Leading to a dictatorship or oligarchy with the congress being aristocrats. Thoughts?

[Erik]

I think it can happen.
But I don't think it will necessarily happen.

Chances of it happening in America is probably less than 10%, and almost zero in Europe.

[Aristophanes]

I think it can happen.
But I don't think it will necessarily happen.

Chances of it happening in America is probably less than 10%, and almost zero in Europe.

I think you have your percentages backwards: Europe's the place where several democracies have slid into dictatorship or oligarchy: that's never happened in the USA. Don't forget that Europe is the continent with the mainstream far-right parties like Vlaams Bellam and Joerg Hayder's party in Austria. And Jean Marie Le Pen in France too!!!!

[LoZz]

I think it can happen.
But I don't think it will necessarily happen.

Chances of it happening in America is probably less than 10%, and almost zero in Europe.

0% in europe? as far as i am aware its never happened in the states, but in germany the nazi's one an election and then turned it into a form dictatorship

[Sétanta]

You can get your voice heard, but in a country of 300 million voices, one is not much.
Unless that voice has the advantage of being reproduced by the major news networks.
And you can hold a gun, but who's to say you are the correct judge of when the government is corrupt beyond repair?

Somehow I doubt that Americans would just sit around and let their country degenerate into an oligarchy or dictatorship. One voice is not much compared to the rest, but if all or most are screaming for change, then change will happen.

[Tom Paine]

0% in europe? as far as i am aware its never happened in the states, but in germany the nazi's one an election and then turned it into a form dictatorship

In Germany conditions were exceptional. We're possibly heading for those same sorts of conditions again, and they are likely if they occur to hit American harder than anywhere else, just as they once hit Germany.

[Erik]

0% in europe? as far as i am aware its never happened in the states, but in germany the nazi's one an election and then turned it into a form dictatorship

I said ALMOST 0%.

The reason why I think the chance of it happening in America is lightly larger is because it seems most Americans aren't the least worried when their government takes away their constitutional rights.
It seems they are far more scared of a handful of terrorists than their own government gaining too much power.
I don't see the same thing happening in Europe, I suppose Europeans have learned form their past.

Also the Neo-Cons are fascist (and I'm serious)

[sephodwyrm]

Depends on how the people feel.
If the people of that state feel they have get a dictatorship, then the democratic constitution would collapse. The Constitution is not defended by the government in a democratic nation, but rather by the population of legitimate voters.

[KaerMorhen]

I think "Oligarchy" exists in any state already. Like-mided individuals gathered is close "societes" with money, influences in many fields of "common life" in any state. And democracy or not has nothing to do with it.

[sephodwyrm]

Not really. Oligarchy is technically illegal, even in businesses. Collusions and Trusts are criminal activities.

[KaerMorhen]

Not really. Oligarchy is technically illegal, even in businesses. Collusions and Trusts are criminal activities.

Agree but there're always people "more equal" for the law than others, and it's obvious no one will use the term "Oligarchy"

[mrjesushat]

Democracy never really exists. All states are at the mercy of those who own them. Ergo, a democracy is an oligarchy or plutocracy with a lot of civil and social freedom for the populace.

Nonetheless, this system inevitably decays into dictatorship, because a population that is guided by a class of rulers will eventually see that class shrink to a singularity. Those with power will contend with eachother for a greater personal share of power. And someone always comes along with enough talent, brains, and moral ambivalence to be able to do away with all contenders.

Now, all the U.S. needs is an Octavian. So keep your eyes open. People who can predict the future can make an awful lot of money.

[RusskiSoldat]

I think that no government survives forever, as such any one government is destined to lead to another.

[Sétanta]

Anything is possible. In a funcional democracy, you can overcome oligarchies. Even if one forms, it can't stay in power forever. Eventually the people realize whats happening and make choices that effectively disband the oligarchy. The only way that would fail is if they were so complacent they didn't care, or the oligarchy developed into a dictatorship.

[RusskiSoldat]

You give the people too much credit.
Every system eventually fails.

[Sétanta]

You give the people too much credit.
Every system eventually fails.

Yeah, but you can do a lot to prevent that from happening for a long, long time.

[Armfelt]

Not because of terrorism, I think it is actually the natural way that things will progress if democracy is left unchecked. With one party gaining most votes and then forming and oligarchy, that is why in my opinion, even though it sounds ironic democracy has to be enforced.

But maybe I am just a pessimist for not believing in the goodness in mankind?

[KaerMorhen]

without enforcement anarchy will follow soon and if democracy is about being survived there have to be "pillars" to keep it in balance. Oligarchy isn't made of same sort of people like "one party members" - it's beyond that, like a goals to achieve regardless of current position and membership.

[The Walrus]

without enforcement anarchy will follow soon and if democracy is about being survived there have to be "pillars" to keep it in balance. Oligarchy isn't made of same sort of people like "one party members" - it's beyond that, like a goals to achieve regardless of current position and membership.

Complete anarchy in todays world is impossible. If the US goes into anarchy, each town would govern itself. They would ban together in areas because of same culture etc. This will lead to city-states in America. If anyone tried to invade us, we would team up to protect our "freedom" When no one is attacking us, we would either keep to ourselves or be fighting because of different religion, political views, etc

Note: When I say culture, I mean southern way of living, north way, etc.

[Lancea Quantum]

This topic reminds me of the film V for Vendetta. The totalitarian state on that film. Yes i know its a film but you know