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Thread: Complains against discrimination of RICH people by the church, made by billionaire

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  1. #1
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Complains against discrimination of RICH people by the church, made by billionaire

    http://www.examiner.com/article/bill...t-for-the-poor

    Eventually it was bound to happen in a world where political correctness has got so side-tracked.


    "Billionaire Ken Langone, the founder of Home Depot issued a warning to Pope Francis during an interview with CNBC which was published this past Monday. In the interview he said that wealthy people such as himself are feeling ostracized by the Pope’s messages in support of the poor,"

    How DARES the pope send messages in support of the poor, right? How about the feelings of those "poor" billionaires that feel marginalized?

    NOTE: The brave billionaire that stood up and spoke against the discrimination against rich people is a major campaign donor for the Republicans.
    Last edited by alhoon; September 02, 2014 at 11:58 AM.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Complains against discrimination of RICH people by the church, made by billionaire

    When you start amassing enormous wealth, and you slide in the so called "1%", you are marginalising yourself.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  3. #3
    paleologos's Avatar You need burrito love!!
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    Default Re: Complains against discrimination of RICH people by the church, made by billionaire

    The whole thing seems to me like trying to bribe the Roman Catholic Church so that the Pope changes his rhetoric.
    The fact this guy is treating the Pope like he would treat an American politico just shows how out of touch with reality someone becomes when his wealth allows for dissociation between his actions and their consequences.

  4. #4
    Mayer's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Complains against discrimination of RICH people by the church, made by billionaire

    the pope should stop his pseudocommunism and begin teaching the advantages of capitalism
    HATE SPEECH ISN'T REAL

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    Himster's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Complains against discrimination of RICH people by the church, made by billionaire

    What's the Pope saying things that Jesus might have said........ that's not what Christianity is about at all.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are so certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubts.
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Complains against discrimination of RICH people by the church, made by billionaire

    This pope is a little socialist at heart which is ok up to a point.

    This is why....
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    You gotta make it to give it.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

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    paleologos's Avatar You need burrito love!!
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    Default Re: Complains against discrimination of RICH people by the church, made by billionaire

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    This pope is a little socialist at heart which is ok up to a point.

    This is why....
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    You gotta make it to give it.
    Do you really believe that cartoon?
    As far as I know Jesus was reffering to the monastic paradigm when he was saying to give "everything" to the poor.
    The Pope is more likely reffering to the negotiating power that money can buy and the huge imbalances of negotiating power that result from huge imbalances in the distribution and control of the means of production.
    If all you have to contribute to the process of production is your labor in an environment of high unemployment and eradicated unionism then your ability to negotiate your share out the output is essentially zero.
    This means that for all intents and purposes you are a slave.
    I am not against capitalism, as a matter of fact I am very much in favour of it, but what we are experiencing today is not capitalism, it is neo-feudalism.
    And that is most certainly un-Christian and a rightful target of priority for the critisism of any Christian leader.
    Last edited by paleologos; September 02, 2014 at 03:05 PM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Complains against discrimination of RICH people by the church, made by billionaire

    Quote Originally Posted by paleologos View Post
    Do you really believe that cartoon?
    As far as I know Jesus was reffering to the monastic paradigm when he was saying to give "everything" to the poor.
    The Pope is more likely reffering to the negotiating power that money can buy and the huge imbalances of negotiating power that result from huge imbalances in the distribution and control of the means of production.
    If all you have to contribute to the process of production is your labor in an environment of high unemployment and eradicated unionism then your ability to negotiate your share out the output is essentially zero.
    This means that for all intents and purposes you are a slave.
    I am not against capitalism, as a matter of fact I am very much in favour of it, but what we are experiencing today is not capitalism, it is neo-feudalism.
    And that is most certainly un-Christian and a rightful target of priority for the critisism of any Christian leader.
    Repworthy.

    As the scriptures say, .....And Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How difficult it will be for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God!". Given what this rich idiot said, that difficulty remains.
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    Default Re: Complains against discrimination of RICH people by the church, made by billionaire

    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    Repworthy.

    As the scriptures say, .....And Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How difficult it will be for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God!". Given what this rich idiot said, that difficulty remains.
    Kingdom of "god" must smell terribly then.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Complains against discrimination of RICH people by the church, made by billionaire

    Quote Originally Posted by paleologos View Post
    I am not against capitalism, as a matter of fact I am very much in favour of it, but what we are experiencing today is not capitalism, it is neo-feudalism.
    "We live in neo feudalism, this economy is opressive", said the middle class kid who can afford money, health and free time to play videogames on the computer as leisure.

    If it's neo feudalism () I sure assure you aren't on the bottom of the pyramid

  11. #11

    Default Re: Complains against discrimination of RICH people by the church, made by billionaire

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    This pope is a little socialist at heart which is ok up to a point.

    This is why....
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    You gotta make it to give it.
    The problem is you see every "poor" as a burden and an eternal leech to society of course thats absolute BS .

  12. #12

    Default Re: Complains against discrimination of RICH people by the church, made by billionaire

    Quote Originally Posted by k995 View Post
    The problem is you see every "poor" as a burden and an eternal leech to society of course thats absolute BS .
    You don't solve poverty by giving away things. Being poor is not a virtue.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Complains against discrimination of RICH people by the church, made by billionaire

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    You don't solve poverty by giving away things. Being poor is not a virtue.
    The comments of the Pope that started the whole controversy were not about giving things away.
    They were about spending money in targeted ways with the purpose of creating opportunities for meaningful employment for everyone that is willing to work.
    I don't know where you live but in my country the minimum wage barely pays the rent.
    If you owned slaves and you wanted to maximize their productivity you would have to make certain investments on them.
    You would have to provide hygienicly sound quarters for them,
    food to keep their energy up,
    clothes on their bodies so that they wouldn't walk around like primitives,
    vocational training -of course,
    and medical coverage which means health insurance since medical expenses for uninsured patients might make them want to kill themselves.
    Try and calculate how much it would cost in modern terms to provide all that for someone and you will see that the minimum wage does not begin to cover half of it.
    Salaried labor under the minimum wage is at least as bad as slavery.

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    Mayer's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Complains against discrimination of RICH people by the church, made by billionaire

    Quote Originally Posted by paleologos View Post
    Would you please be so kind as to help me see the point in this remark?
    The afterlife is the sigh of the miserable creature, the hope of escapism from reality with its suffering and shackels to a inverted world without flaws.
    However in actual imagination, a paradise full of unwashed, lice-ridden beggars, victims of pandemic or adipose unemployed is a rather unpleasant thought.
    .
    HATE SPEECH ISN'T REAL

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    mrmouth's Avatar flaxen haired argonaut
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    Default Re: Complains against discrimination of RICH people by the church, made by billionaire

    There are some stores I go out of my way to avoid. Home Despot (see what I did there) is definitely one of them. Also helps that their prices are always higher than their competitors.
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    saxdude's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Complains against discrimination of RICH people by the church, made by billionaire

    That poor people smell, but I don't know I think pieces of smell a lot worse they just can never seem to smell themselves.
    That's why he lives in canada instead of russia.

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    Default Re: Complains against discrimination of RICH people by the church, made by billionaire

    Just read the Pope's interview, well pieces of it.
    Had no idea he made the slave labor argument but he did, good hor him.

    There is, though a difference from his point of view and mine regardless of the fact that we reach the same conclusion.
    The Pope was reffering to the conditions of living of people who have employment but barely enough income to be able to live with dignity.
    I made my argument from the marketing point of view, the concept of negotiating power, the ability to negotiate not only your measurable share of the output but the terms of your employment in general.
    From this point of view, an employee who makes a lot of money but does not have the negotiating power to work fewer hours or under better conditions because on the first notice of "incompatibility" with the organisation he would be fired he is a slave of neccessity just as well.
    Freedom is the power of the individual to effect the terms of his or her existence without infringements on other people's ability to do the same.
    It's not just a matter of money at hand, it is also a matter of self determination.
    In times of high unemployment that goes out of the window.
    Last edited by paleologos; September 02, 2014 at 06:01 PM.

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    Mayer's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Complains against discrimination of RICH people by the church, made by billionaire

    HH was probably just making a joke on christianity.

    I think we should rather find happiness in our real life than wait for the hollow promises of afterlife.
    HATE SPEECH ISN'T REAL

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    paleologos's Avatar You need burrito love!!
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    Default Re: Complains against discrimination of RICH people by the church, made by billionaire

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayer View Post
    I think we should rather find happiness in our real life than wait for the hollow promises of afterlife.
    That was my point too.

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    Default Re: Complains against discrimination of RICH people by the church, made by billionaire

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    "The current model, with its emphasis on success and self-reliance, does not appear to favor an investment in efforts to help the slow, the weak or the less talented to find opportunities in life.”

    "Consequently, they reject the right of states, charged with vigilance for the common good, to exercise any form of control. A new tyranny is thus born, invisible and often virtual, which unilaterally and relentlessly imposes its own laws and rules. Debt and the accumulation of interest also make it difficult for countries to realize the potential of their own economies and keep citizens from enjoying their real purchasing power. To all this we can add widespread corruption and self-serving tax evasion, which have taken on worldwide dimensions. The thirst for power and possessions knows no limits. In this system, which tends to devour everything which stands in the way of increased profits, whatever is fragile, like the environment, is defenseless before the interests of a deified market, which become the only rule.”

    "We can no longer trust in the unseen forces and the ‘invisible hand’ of the market. Growth in justice requires more than economic growth, while presupposing such growth: it requires decisions, programs, mechanisms and processes specifically geared to a better distribution of income, the creation of sources of employment and an integral promotion of the poor which goes beyond a simple welfare mentality. ... The economy can no longer turn to remedies that are a new poison, such as attempting to increase profits by reducing the workforce and thereby adding to the ranks of the excluded. ... I encourage financial experts and political leaders to ponder the words of one of the sages of antiquity: Not to share one’s wealth with the poor is to steal from them and to take away their livelihood. It is not our own goods which we hold, but theirs.”

    “Some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naive trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system. Meanwhile, the excluded are still waiting. ... The culture of prosperity deadens us; we are thrilled if the market offers us something new to purchase. In the meantime all those lives stunted for lack of opportunity seem a mere spectacle; they fail to move us.”

    “In a culture where each person wants to be bearer of his or her own subjective truth, it becomes difficult for citizens to devise a common plan which transcends individual gain and personal ambitions. ... I am interested only in helping those who are in thrall to an individualistic, indifferent and self-centered mentality to be freed from those unworthy chains and to attain a way of living and thinking which is more humane, noble and fruitful, and which will bring dignity to their presence on this earth.”

    Seems like well meaning socialist rambling, which will fail like any other, Pope's infallibility or not, being that while seeking religion is part of many humans nature, so is why we work hard and its not for others across the globe but ourselves, our families and our local communities.
    I don't see how that addresses all the points that I made about not paying a fair share of the output to talented, hard-working individuals just because they don't have the power to negotiate better terms in such a labour market environment where so many unemployed people are scrambling for the same job.

    Pope or no Pope his points have a merit of their own regardless of one's religious inclinations.

    Nobody argued against working for yourself.
    The real problem, which is mentioned here as tax evasion is in reality much bigger as there is also the legitimate tax avoidance taking place to a much greater extend.

    To make things worse there is the hoax spinning of Luntzian "job creators".
    In reality no private entrepreneur would attempt an investment that has an amortization period greater than seven years and seven years is extremely long for privately owned businesses.
    Only the governments can undertake such trully job creating projects of infrastructure as they can afford to wait for extended periods for amortization to take place.
    But with governments stripped of cash not enough opportunities of meaningful employment are created.

    It saddens me that your arguement reeks of ideology.
    If you were free from that you would be able to see that I am not talking ideology, as I don't have ideology, I am talking economics.
    I like capitalism but it is not ideology to me, it's just means to an end.
    The historical experience is doing more than enough to exonerate the paradigm of moderated capitalism, as opposed to the paradigm of unrestrained hoarding of political power, purchased by money, under the guise of market "freedom".
    That last one has proven to be the culprit of one crash after another.
    And while the unemployed are waiting for the recession to be succeded by real productivity growth time passes them by.
    Life is now, now is the time to act.
    Last edited by paleologos; September 03, 2014 at 06:08 AM.

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