Battle Balance preview – Goals and Road so far

[LAKEDAIMON]

Looking good KAM, But how mutch will you shorten it? Because i like the times i see there love longer battles and really need to think where i attack.

Dont woory, along with dei dei 1.0 they will release also longer and faster battle official submods

[meerkatology]

Agree with all of these concepts, can't wait for balanced and unique factions!

on a side note, is the moral systems going to be revamped? At the moment theres no difference in moral of similar quality units across the nations.
historically I'm sure romans/spartans etc had generally better moral than barbarians.

[ostendadler]

We should be able to build in-game a KAM shrine in our capital cities to thank you for your hard work. two thumbs up

[KAM 2150]

Agree with all of these concepts, can't wait for balanced and unique factions!

on a side note, is the moral systems going to be revamped? At the moment theres no difference in moral of similar quality units across the nations.
historically I'm sure romans/spartans etc had generally better moral than barbarians.

I think there isn't a single value in kv tables from the previous system. Similar quality units mostly have the same morale, although Romans and Spartans tend to have it higher on average, while fanatic units have it at the highest level. Also we put a bit more stress on if unit is losing/losing badly so better units will have advantage over weaker units in terms of attack, defence and armour, while both units could have the same morale.

In general it is all about the people and situations, so still flanking, kills and other units routing are the most important factors.

['Gunny]

I think there isn't a single value in kv tables from the previous system.

Yea, to add onto this, the morale, rules, and even fatigue have had a lot of work put into them, everything from unit collisions, to pike functionality and hit chance calculation in the rules, to flanking, loss, and even thresholds in morale have been tweaked and reworked. And we are still tweaking, working to get battles to be the sort that Rome II deserves. I gotta say though, the last couple battles I played with our WIP system have been some of the most engaging and rewarding battles I've played in Rome II, and even though the battles are around 20-30 minutes, I manage to stay on the edge of my seat, even losing several times.

[Xubarku]

How do you feel progress is going with balancing elephants, chariots, and to a lesser extent, camels? Unless I missed it, I notice you haven't directly addressed camels. Will camels remain basically as is or do you hope to tweak them in some way? Anything you're willing to share? I love elephants, but in my Rome and Rome 2 experience, they certainly seem difficult to get "right". That goes double for chariots.

[KAM 2150]

Those stuff are for the end, since they require a bit more attention. Scythed chartiots are mostly finished, but I will test some ideas a bit more. As for camels they were never important units in ancient mediterranean combat and I never read about their combat effectiveness, if you have some good sources then I will gladly read them.

[wrcromartie]

Those stuff are for the end, since they require a bit more attention. Scythed chartiots are mostly finished, but I will test some ideas a bit more. As for camels they were never important units in ancient mediterranean combat and I never read about their combat effectiveness, if you have some good sources then I will gladly read them.

It doesn't speak a lot to their effectiveness as opposed to horses, but Alexander: A History of the Origin and Growth of the Art Of War from the Earliest Times to the Battle of Ipsus, B.C. 301, With a Detailed Account of the Campaigns of the Great Macedonian by Theodore Ayrault Dodge has several references to camels used in warfare. Based on what I've read from your posts, you'd probably also like the rest of the book - it has a lot of detailed illustrations and descriptions of the terrain, battle maneuvers, etc. Very detailed and yet I still found it an easy read.

[Maetharin]

It doesn't speak a lot to their effectiveness as opposed to horses, but Alexander: A History of the Origin and Growth of the Art Of War from the Earliest Times to the Battle of Ipsus, B.C. 301, With a Detailed Account of the Campaigns of the Great Macedonian by Theodore Ayrault Dodge has several references to camels used in warfare. Based on what I've read from your posts, you'd probably also like the rest of the book - it has a lot of detailed illustrations and descriptions of the terrain, battle maneuvers, etc. Very detailed and yet I still found it an easy read.

Do you have any other suggestions for some "light" reading like this?
I´d be really interested, since I´m studying history at the viennese University

[wrcromartie]

Do you have any other suggestions for some "light" reading like this?
I´d be really interested, since I´m studying history at the viennese University

The same author wrote several other excellent military histories that you may find interesting or relevant:

Hannibal: A History of the Art of War Among the Carthaginians and Romans Down to the Battle of Pydna, 168 B.C., With a Detailed Account of the Second Punic War
https://play.google.com/store/books/...d=oX0FqdrIvC8C


Caesar: A History of the Art of War Among the Romans Down to the End of the Roman Empire, With a Detailed Account of the Campaigns of Caius Julius Caesar
https://play.google.com/store/books/...d=9IzVbPkLPfwC

Both are strongly recommended. I also really enjoyed

Fighting Their Way ; Or The History of the Crusades: Their Rise, Progress, and Results
https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=0bDqTuw1U-IC
by George Procter
- January 1, 1876



I believe all are free on Google Play books!

[Sir_Pee_Alot]

The last couple battles I played with our WIP system have been some of the most engaging and rewarding battles I've played in Rome II, and even though the battles are around 20-30 minutes, I manage to stay on the edge of my seat, even losing several times.

Sweet thats what i like to hear cant wait to give it a spin and get engaged in my battles.

[loony]

cannot wait. just cannot wait. really.
have been biting my fingernails.... will probably have to stat biting toenails now...

[shadowtwinz]

It comes when it comes don't worry altho M&B Bannerlord also 2015 imo

[RGA]

Those stuff are for the end, since they require a bit more attention. Scythed chartiots are mostly finished, but I will test some ideas a bit more. As for camels they were never important units in ancient mediterranean combat and I never read about their combat effectiveness, if you have some good sources then I will gladly read them.

I managed to find an academic paper about the use of camels and other exotic animals (scythed chariots, elephants) on JSTOR.

http://www.jstor.org/stable/641722

Hope you already have access. In case you don't I sum up some major points:

- Camels (or more precisely dromedary, as we also have two-humped Bactrian camel) were mostly used as baggage animal.
- Aside from excellent stamina, dromedary is also said to be less prone to panic under fire (unlike elephants).
- Its smell is known to be able to scare horses away.
- Few records of using dromedary in pitched battles exists. The most famous one is the battle of Thymbra where Persian army under Cyrus the Great used their pack camels to disrupt Lydian cavalry.
- Most of the times, dromedary-riding troops fought as mobile infantry.
- Xenophon however testified that when necessary, dromedary could hold itself in close quarter combat.
- The main weakness of dromedary is the extreme suscepsibility against climate change. In this regards, Bactrian camels are far superior, as they followed the Red army from the steppe of Stalingrad to the very gate of Berlin

[zombieflanders]

It'll be interesting to finally see siege battles where 6-chevron Thorakatai aren't held on the walls by raw garrison troops for 5+ minutes while losing almost a third of their numbers. That has been by far the most frustrating thing about my current Antigonidai playthrough.

[KAM 2150]

Thanks, that backs up what I was already thinking

[KAM 2150]

Zombieflanders - I think it won't be a problem anymore. In general only heavy and elite units will take low casualties, levies fighting even other levies will be a very bloody and fast battle.


Plus, small bonus for you


I watch the Simpsons pretty much every day with my girlfriend

[vpapako]

Are you by any chance going to use the newly developed population system in 1.0?

[KAM 2150]

If Mitch will finish it before we release 1.0 and he says yes, then it will be added.

[Krasnaïa Zvezda]

@ Kam :

Not sure if I'm posting it in the right place but as I know that you read this one, I'll post it here.

Is it possible to add the "area of effect fire" from the Pila throwing units to other ranged units such as skirmishers, archers,...

Because in certain battles the enemy units will mix between each other to reach melee contact and ranged units that are in range (archers) cannot fire at them because of this.

I'm thinking city battles where I use the garrison army to defend the center and where the enemy units will funnel into the narrow streets.

Having the possibility to make ranged units fire on a specific spot rather than targeting a unit would solve the problem.

However, I don't know if it is possible and if the AI would be able to use it.