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Thread: Why Can't The Issue That Forces You To Build Rams Be Fixed?

  1. #1

    Default Why Can't The Issue That Forces You To Build Rams Be Fixed?

    Hey there EB team,

    I'm no expert on scripting or modding, but I've got to ask: why in the name of the gods is it impossible to find a work-around for the issue that forces you to build rams whenever you attack a wall-less camp? This issue is particularly frustrating when you're attacking a camp with a small force: you can easily end up waiting around for 2-3 turns (or more) before you can attack (by which time the AI will usually bring up reinforcements, negating any smart strategic planning on your part). Couldn't you just write a script to fix the problem? Examples:

    1. Set the time to build rams to 0 turns when assaulting camps.
    2. Write a script that places a max skill-level spy loyal to the attacking faction inside camps whenever they are attacked (to open the "gates").
    3. Write a script that triggers an automatic, immediate field battle outside camps between the attackers/defenders whenever a camp is attacked.
    4. Write a script that automatically destroys camp "gates" at the start of every siege.
    5. Write a script that places an invisible ram on every battlefield (or at lest the conditions of having a ram).
    6. Set certain sections of camp "wall" to be invisible/collision-less.
    7. Set all camp "walls" to be completely destroyed on the campaign map at the start of the campaign (i.e., 100% damage).
    8. Write a script that causes all camp siege battles to take place on a prefabricated battlefield that has a little village/farm on it.
    9. Write a script that spawns an allied force besieging the camp with you (with a bunch of rams) as soon as you lay siege.
    10. (partial work-around) Write a script that forces besieged troops in camps to sortie as soon as you end turn.

    I get that hard-coding exists, and that some (or more likely all) of these ideas might be impossible to implement. If you can't fix the problem, then why not do away with wall-less camps altogether? You might as well, since you have to build a ram anyways (which totally defeats the purpose of it not having a wall). Just give every camp a small wall, and assume that settlements without walls in a certain province wouldn't be worth attacking/defending in the first place.

  2. #2
    Grimmy's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Why Can't The Issue That Forces You To Build Rams Be Fixed?

    If you're talking about the Permanent Stone Forts turned Small Villages...

    I must be totally bugged. I've attacked several of those boogers that were occupied by very evil enemy type armies, over a few short games, and never once had to hesitate or build anything.

    I simply move my attacking force up to the village, right click to "siege" it and that brings up the attack window, with the "attack" button all shiny and ready to be clicked.

  3. #3
    Rafkos's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Why Can't The Issue That Forces You To Build Rams Be Fixed?

    Well, these are a very nice ideas, I hope that at least one of them is possible to implement into the mod. Let's see what devs think about it.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Why Can't The Issue That Forces You To Build Rams Be Fixed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmy View Post
    If you're talking about the Permanent Stone Forts turned Small Villages...

    I must be totally bugged. I've attacked several of those boogers that were occupied by very evil enemy type armies, over a few short games, and never once had to hesitate or build anything.

    I simply move my attacking force up to the village, right click to "siege" it and that brings up the attack window, with the "attack" button all shiny and ready to be clicked.
    No, he's not talking about the minor settlements represented by permanent stone forts. He's talking about the nomadic camps certain factions have in place of those forts.

  5. #5
    Grimmy's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Why Can't The Issue That Forces You To Build Rams Be Fixed?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    No, he's not talking about the minor settlements represented by permanent stone forts. He's talking about the nomadic camps certain factions have in place of those forts.
    Thanks. Haven't run into any of those yet.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Why Can't The Issue That Forces You To Build Rams Be Fixed?

    Bump

    Can I get some developer feedback here?

  7. #7

    Default Re: Why Can't The Issue That Forces You To Build Rams Be Fixed?

    Yes, those do seem to be very good ideas. I wonder what the devs will think... *checks watch*

  8. #8

    Default Re: Why Can't The Issue That Forces You To Build Rams Be Fixed?

    The thing is : the problem is strange : in vanilla, the function for no wall settlement exists. It was widely used in the "america" extension.


  9. #9
    dalapto's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Why Can't The Issue That Forces You To Build Rams Be Fixed?

    1. Set the time to build rams to 0 turns when assaulting camps.
    Ram and siege-build time depends on force size not settlement type.



    2. Write a script that places a max skill-level spy loyal to the attacking faction inside camps whenever they are attacked (to open the "gates").
    Not very clean, but could work. Not sure if you can spawn agents in enemy cities though.



    5. Write a script that places an invisible ram on every battlefield (or at least the conditions of having a ram).
    Doesn't sound possible.



    6. Set certain sections of camp "wall" to be invisible/collision-less.
    I don't know if this is possible or not, (should be done if possible) but this wouldn't solve siege assault requirements.



    4. Write a script that automatically destroys camp "gates" at the start of every siege.
    7. Set all camp "walls" to be completely destroyed on the campaign map at the start of the campaign (i.e., 100% damage).
    These two are the same idea.
    Camps (or castles) don't have walls, i.e they're not separate buildings like in cities, if walls/gates get destroyed in castles, the castle building gets damaged.



    3. Write a script that triggers an automatic, immediate field battle outside camps between the attackers/defenders whenever a camp is attacked.
    8. Write a script that causes all camp siege battles to take place on a prefabricated battlefield that has a little village/farm on it.
    Both are the same idea. Battles can't be caused by scripts, directly and as quickly as that, (as far as I know) and having a battle outside brings problems such as even if you defeat the force you'll have to kill/capture all forces or they'll retreat back to the camp.



    9. Write a script that spawns an allied force besieging the camp with you (with a bunch of rams) as soon as you lay siege.
    While you can spawn an army, I don't believe you can tell it to lay siege to a city.



    10. (partial work-around) Write a script that forces besieged troops in camps to sally out? as soon as you end turn.
    Probably the most sensible and possible option that deals with the siege-time problem.

    I'm not a developer and I don't honestly know why this hasn't been fixed or if it is possible or not, but some of these solutions are a bit impractical in my opinion.



    I get that hard-coding exists, and that some (or more likely all) of these ideas might be impossible to implement. If you can't fix the problem, then why not do away with wall-less camps altogether? You might as well, since you have to build a ram anyways (which totally defeats the purpose of it not having a wall). Just give every camp a small wall, and assume that settlements without walls in a certain province wouldn't be worth attacking/defending in the first place.
    I agree, a simple solution and would be a fix of sorts that makes sense.



    The thing is : the problem is strange : in vanilla, the function for a no wall settlement exists. It was widely used in the "america" extension.
    It's because camps are castles not cities, walls are part of castles so it'll be a little bit more difficult to edit walls out on castle maps.
    Last edited by dalapto; August 31, 2014 at 11:17 AM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Why Can't The Issue That Forces You To Build Rams Be Fixed?

    Yep, all Castle levels have the walls from ground up (check it in vanilla). That's the reason so many mods remove them altogether.


  11. #11

    Default Re: Why Can't The Issue That Forces You To Build Rams Be Fixed?

    Oh thank you for the answer, didn't know that. Not very practical indeed. Last time I started a assault on one of them, and build some ladders. I just started the tactic map and had the message of end of fight with "defeat".

    I hope it can be solved, for the functionality is great.


  12. #12

    Default Re: Why Can't The Issue That Forces You To Build Rams Be Fixed?

    you have to build rams, not ladders
    I choose to die on my feet, rather than live on my knees!

  13. #13

    Default Re: Why Can't The Issue That Forces You To Build Rams Be Fixed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Funeh View Post
    you have to build rams, not ladders
    Yeap, I undertsood that afterward.

    About the mandatory walls from castles, one questions comes to my mind, but maybe it is too silly :

    If castle have mandatory walls.
    If EB IG cities always have walls.
    Why don't we simply use the castle gameplay feature to represent cities (I read EB team said that they could tweak castles like they wishes) and use the city feature as camps ?

    I suppose it is too much work, I don't know anything about modding... but if it is possible... ?


  14. #14

    Default Re: Why Can't The Issue That Forces You To Build Rams Be Fixed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmy View Post
    Thanks. Haven't run into any of those yet.
    I was wrong; they're not minor settlements, nomadic province-capitals are camps, rather than walled towns. As an example Skythiapolis is a camp.

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