Probably known but - Phalanaxes!! o.O

[Cryoshakespeare]

Okay, I'm aware that this issue is probably quite evident already in the forum, but in case it isn't -

The Hellenistic Phalanx is ridiculously powerful, particularly when guard mode is turned *off*.
I had four phalanxes, and three archer-units (playing as Pergamon), and I managed to take the rebel settlement north of Pergamon with relative ease. In total I killed roughly 1800 men (with about 5/6 of their units being Hellenistic Classical Hoplites) and I only lost about 200 of my phalanx units. I'm aware that I'm probably not playing them in a way that's at all historically accurate or intended, and I'm sure they'd be less over-powered if they were forced to fight in guard mode, but I'd just like to point it out in case it's something you can fix

Unlike in EB I, where a unit that had even partially flanked a phalax began murdering the flanked units, the flanked-phalangites in this have no difficulty turning their sarissa and poking at the enemies (if guard mode is disabled). Essentially, making them fight out of formation has no disadvantage for them (especially once all the units become exhausted, as they inevitably do - see slow-combat), and in fact gives them the ability to not pin enemies directly in front of them but also around the sides.

Once again, I always have to temper this criticism with the fact that I find this mod awesome!

[riskymonk]

If the AI cant prioritise their skirmishers on the pikes then they might need to be nerfed.

[gustave]

Pikemen / Phalanxes are broken in medieval 2's engine, unfortunately there is not much we can do.

[avragehuman]

I came across a single phalanx unit in a Hellenistic rebel faction while playing as the Romani, it took two units of Hastati and a unit of Principes attacking from all siides to bring them down, with a HUGE casualty rate. This is strange.

[General Grievous]

I came across a single phalanx unit in a Hellenistic rebel faction while playing as the Romani, it took two units of Hastati and a unit of Principes attacking from all siides to bring them down, with a HUGE casualty rate. This is strange.

Did you guys ever played Rome I and EB 1?
It was the worst thing.
Phalanxes were overpowered and no one can pass throught.
I find it mor realistic than in EBI, even if they don't handle their pikes correctly.

[TinyGeneral]

havent encountered phalanxes in eb2 yet, but they were never op in rome / eb 1. that is, if you made the difficult assumption that it might not be the best idea to charge your soldiers into 240 20 foot spears. pin, flank / shower with missiles from back, and watch them break as quickly as any other unit.
but as i said, might be different in 2. havent encountered em yet.

[tom_gr7]

I had to use 5 units of hastati and principles to take down one unit of Hellenistic Phalanx yesterday. The unit was completely surrounded but still managed to turn around with their pikes. That would never happen, if they were attacked from the flanks, they would have to drop the pikes and fight with swords.

[Funeh]

just use them on guard mod as they are supposed to be anyway...

[Razor]

Does putting phalanx units on guard mode actually nerf them? Either way they can be put on guard mode automatically if you edit descr_formations_ai.txt. This way the ai also starts with phalanx units in guard mode.

[Anubis88]

Any tips on making phalanxes realistic? Maybe not use them much? I want to start a diadochi campaign, but if the battles are broken i guess i'll stick with the Western part of Europe

[Klierowski]

Do u think lowering their stats will help ? it's really easy to mod unit strats ...

[Petite Wolf]

I haven't encountered any issues with phalanxes as of yet. Perhaps having them on guard mode - and making the AI start them out on guard mode, too - will have some effect on it, though.

[paulus]

I think at one point our battle AI build had phalanxes start in guard mode for players and AI, has that changed? We're still actively tweaking battle AI (there have been a couple of new iterations on internal forums, and we'll release a test one to the community very soon).

[Jean=A=Luc]

In PB's rc/rr balance mods pikes often have very low attack and def skill values. A unit with just 1 attack and 0 def skill is still immensely powerful simply due to the pike itself. In RC pikes tend to have 0 or 1 def skill while attack is usually 1 for militias and such going up to 4-5 for professional soldiers. Def skill is always 0 or 1 even for elites because it simulates the rigidity of the formation while also balancing the unit (more or less).