How does culture spread?

[Iaius Statius Laurentius]

I don't understand the requirements for Parthian satrapies and royal satrapies. In EDB, it seems they only require a certain percentage of Eastern Imperial culture and the eastern hidden resource. So -- for example -- I'm trying to build a satrapy at Persepolis, but I'm only able to build a border march even though it has the eastern hidden resource and I should have the required 25% Eastern Imperial culture.

[Ballpoint202]

I don't understand the requirements for Parthian satrapies and royal satrapies. In EDB, it seems they only require a certain percentage of Eastern Imperial culture and the eastern hidden resource. So -- for example -- I'm trying to build a satrapy at Persepolis, but I'm only able to build a border march even though it has the eastern hidden resource and I should have the required 25% Eastern Imperial culture.

You need to have the reforms also ("and event_counter ecParthia_Imperial 1"). For that you need level 3 or level 4 farms (not sure which) in Asaak, Hekatompylos, Ekbatana and Rhagae.

[Iaius Statius Laurentius]

I've had the reforms event -- otherwise border marches wouldn't be buildable at all. The only province it's letting me build regular satrapies in is Ekbatana though. Not Persepolis, not Asaak, etc. But I should be able to do it in Persepolis at the very least, since it should have the proper amount of Eastern Imperial.

[Moros]

Unexpected religion changes might they not also be caused by the dominant religions of neighbouring provinces and the likes? This might also explain some apparent 'oddities'.

Only buildings that explicitly state in their effects list that they have a cultural conversion bonus should have it. These can be conditional though.

[Merovingi]

I considering invading Nassos (?) as Macedonia to get a buffer zone for Pella from the Getai and I am wondering what kind of a government should I build, if I want to get Falxmen from there. What government should I build there to ensure that I have access to Falxmen in the future? I guess that if I culture converse it to Hellenistic polities no more Falxmen for me..

[delra]

The rule for allied governments is that democratic ones offer infantry units, while oligarchies give access to cavalries. Oligarchies are quicker but more expensive to set up, and offer a law bonus that somehow balances their weaker unit roster. Allied oligarchy is what you'll be using in far-away provinces, when you get to conquering the other end of the map. For Nassos I'd suggest allied democracy.

[Wulfburk]

One thing im not very fond of is the fact that you gotta make a choice between either cav or infantry regional units. To differ between democratic and oligarchic governments would be best through great differences in their building bonus/penalties, and etc. And not having 1 allow 1 unit and the other another.

[DrakeEB2]

Playing as Sweboz and still don't understand this system...100 turns in and my capital is still slowly losing Forest Tribalism. So i destroyed the nomadic herding and starting building large scale farming since it said culture converion +2. Eventually it let me built the large camp into a city. But now my culture is decreasing even more since it counts as Eastern Tribalism...

Am i stuck with just keeping all Sweboz camps? But wouldn't that constitute Nomadic culture? I've done Sweboz migration to my other camps/towns and it still barely helps with my culture...

[ambereyes]

DrakeEB2, I just started playing as Sweboz and I'm also trying to figure this out.
Two questions:
1. What level of farms did you have before you destroyed the herding?
2. What type of units did you have in your garrison.
It is my impression that forest tribalism represents a nomadic way of life. I don't think there is a way to convert to cities and still maintain forest tribalism.
What I don't know is whether there is a trigger or reform to shift the Sweboz to the European culture found to it's west and south (the name escapes me), but I doubt it. I can't see how it would mesh with the tribal system that characterizes Sweboz gameplay.
Have you ever successfully increased forest tribalism? It's unclear to me if the tribal migration buildings actually do so.

[Kull]

It is my impression that forest tribalism represents a nomadic way of life. I don't think there is a way to convert to cities and still maintain forest tribalism.

Just to clarify, "forest_tribal" is not nomadic, nor tied to camps. Lusotannan have it too, and they start off with town-type settlements. So yes, you can (or at least, should be able) to convert *certain* camps over to town-type settlements. That is not true in all cases as certain portions of the map never had anything remotely like towns in them during the entire EB2 period (and for 100s of years after).

What I don't know is whether there is a trigger or reform to shift the Sweboz to the European culture found to it's west and south (the name escapes me), but I doubt it. I can't see how it would mesh with the tribal system that characterizes Sweboz gameplay.
Have you ever successfully increased forest tribalism? It's unclear to me if the tribal migration buildings actually do so.

There is not a reform which converts Sweboz over to a Keltic-style culture (European Tribal States). They do have reforms that grant many of the benefits (especially in the area of war equipment), but that does not require a "religion" change.

[ertai1987]

Did some testing with Seleukeia:
- It seems there is approximately 1% (factional) culture conversion every 10 years regardless the situation
- Cities that had spies had 2% eventhough at most settlements I had them placed for less than 10 years.
- Seleukeia starts with two settlements, Rhagae and Persepolis, that have level 1 colonies and uncapped space (that is Hellenic Polities <30): Rhagae, that started with 5% less HP culture than Persepolis, had a greater conversion rate eventhough the latter had a governor with influence (after 10 years: +15% and +11% respectively).
I am still not 100% what to make of this: it could mean that it is easier to convert when culture is lower or the population/settlement size is smaller.
- Native Colonies and Allied States actually didn't stop the HP culture conversion.
- There is geographical "pressure": Damaskos and Babylon gained 1% Arid Nomadism.

[ambereyes]

Just to clarify, "forest_tribal" is not nomadic, nor tied to camps. Lusotannan have it too, and they start off with town-type settlements. So yes, you can (or at least, should be able) to convert *certain* camps over to town-type settlements. That is not true in all cases as certain portions of the map never had anything remotely like towns in them during the entire EB2 period (and for 100s of years after).

Thank you Kull, that is very helpful. I assume this means that I can build farms without penalties to the forest tribal culture.
Is there a way to find out which settlements can be converted, or is that the type of thing that we are meant to discover via gameplay? I guess that they are probably relatively intuitive. IE camps that border several towns are more likely to be able to convert to towns.

[Kull]

First of all, my personal apologies for indicating that this area was straightforward and easily understandable if folks just dug through the available documentation. Obviously that is not the case, and it's exacerbated by the fact that conversions frequently work differently from one faction/culture group to another, that some don't seem to be working at all, and is further complicated by the fact that reforms often use the same mechanism.

Believe me, if the team had a master document describing how all this works, we would share it with you. Unfortunately there is no such animal, and what we do have are a combination of things that vary from the somewhat documented to the ad hoc, further complicated by the fact that even where documentation exists, it often just talks about what SHOULD be happening....not how.

And of course, there's not a central repository even for that. The team recognizes that this is a key element in the functioning of the mod, and when it works properly the immersion and fun factors are enormous. So I would ask two things:

1) Those who have expended significant energy into figuring out how things work for each faction/culture group, please spend some time and gather all that together into a single post (or thread). I see elements of that in this thread, but a coherent focused effort would help all of us get where we need to go, much faster.

2) For the rest, please be patient. This is complex and will take a while to sort out. And the last thing we want to do is provide incomplete directions that lead to additional frustration.

Thank you

[texoman81]

First of all, my personal apologies for indicating that this area was straightforward and easily understandable if folks just dug through the available documentation. Obviously that is not the case, and it's exacerbated by the fact that conversions frequently work differently from one faction/culture group to another, that some don't seem to be working at all, and is further complicated by the fact that reforms often use the same mechanism.

Believe me, if the team had a master document describing how all this works, we would share it with you. Unfortunately there is no such animal, and what we do have are a combination of things that vary from the somewhat documented to the ad hoc, further complicated by the fact that even where documentation exists, it often just talks about what SHOULD be happening....not how.

And of course, there's not a central repository even for that. The team recognizes that this is a key element in the functioning of the mod, and when it works properly the immersion and fun factors are enormous. So I would ask two things:

1) Those who have expended significant energy into figuring out how things work for each faction/culture group, please spend some time and gather all that together into a single post (or thread). I see elements of that in this thread, but a coherent focused effort would help all of us get where we need to go, much faster.

2) For the rest, please be patient. This is complex and will take a while to sort out. And the last thing we want to do is provide incomplete directions that lead to additional frustration.

Thank you

thanks for the update. Now if you can just call off the fanboys who get offended at every mention of anything someone thinks might not work as intended, need to be tweaked, or need to be explained better.
I'm often unsure if something isn't working as intended, or if it was a choice to make some things difficult or impossible for some faction or if im just overlooking something. I know i was unable to convert any cities with the Getae, but have had no trouble figuring it out with Rome, Bosporus, Taksashila and Arevaci.

[QuintusSertorius]

I think I've just confirmed that it's the governor who is linked to a hardcoded increase in your culture. In my Syrakousai game, I took Alalia, then left a mercenary garrison in place with no governor. Hellenistic Polities hasn't shifted at all in almost 20 turns, where in places with governors (including Lilibeo which I took recently) it's been rising, unless it's already really high.

Either that or it's a combination with government, perhaps Allied States don't change?

[ertai1987]

Either that or it's a combination with government, perhaps Allied States don't change?

Allied Administration (of every faction, I think) gives a religion_bonus to rel_x which, per descr_religions, is Other (auto-destroy mechanic and non-factional other). In other words, it's a malus.

EBII seems to use the "alternate" piety system from the Britannia Kingdoms campaign, as described here. In the Britannia campaign, M2TW's "piety" became "management" and "religion" became "culture".

In EBII, "management" became "influence", but it seems to work the same. That is, a city governor's influence increases the faction's culture in a city (the greater the influence, the faster the change) without causing additional unrest from other factions present in the city; and it increases income, first by decreasing corruption, then by adding administrative income.

Presumably, culture is also influenced by the cultures of neighboring provinces, as described here.

Great stuff, I wish we had the hard numbers!

[Zeleny drak]

For Hellenistic cultures see my post here http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...e-amp-Pergamon. It will not grow past some level (25% for example) if the appropriate military colony is not created.
The generals for all cultures do add a small increase in culture (but again not past the fixed levels, if the cultures has any). However the increase is very small,I would say around a quarter compared with the increase coming from colonies.

[QuintusSertorius]

For Hellenistic cultures see my post here http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...e-amp-Pergamon. It will not grow past some level (25% for example) if the appropriate military colony is not created.
The generals for all cultures do add a small increase in culture (but again not past the fixed levels, if the cultures has any). However the increase is very small,I would say around a quarter compared with the increase coming from colonies.

That's not been my experience at all; I've seen it grow from 20% to 31% without a military colony, indeed with nothing more than time and a governor present.

[Zeleny drak]

That's not been my experience at all; I've seen it grow from 20% to 31% without a military colony, indeed with nothing more than time and a governor present.

It will grow with a governor but it will stop at some point. I don't have the values anymore as they were in a save made in the first version of EB2. Maybe it was 35% and not 25%

[Ballpoint202]

That's not been my experience at all; I've seen it grow from 20% to 31% without a military colony, indeed with nothing more than time and a governor present.

EBII seems to use the "alternate" piety system from the Britannia Kingdoms campaign, as described here. In the Britannia campaign, M2TW's "piety" became "management" and "religion" became "culture".

In EBII, "management" became "influence", but it seems to work the same. That is, a city governor's influence increases the faction's culture in a city (the greater the influence, the faster the change) without causing additional unrest from other factions present in the city; and it increases income, first by decreasing corruption, then by adding administrative income.

Presumably, culture is also influenced by the cultures of neighboring provinces, as described here.