Cavalry charges - how do they work in EBII?

[QuintusSertorius]

In EB1 there was a knack to getting spear/lance-armed cavalry to charge correctly, for maximum impact (as explained by Ibrahim). When I'm playing EBII I instinctively use the same distancing, but it doesn't seem to work. They don't level their lances at the last minute, there's no trumpet and slight increase in speed as they charge home. Instead of charging home, they shoulder into the enemy, doing very little damage.

Are charging distances longer than they were in EB1? Or have the basic mechanics been changed?

[Amorphis]

Try increasing your distance,they are not devastating but they do work OK.Also make sure there is a clear path between you and the enemy,
not some one guy marauding in your path.

[QuintusSertorius]

Try increasing your distance,they are not devastating but they do work OK.Also make sure there is a clear path between you and the enemy,
not some one guy marauding in your path.

I'll see if greater distance improves things. They weren't devastating in EB1 (at least not in 1.2, I seem to remember them being overpowered in 1.0 or maybe 1.1), but they felt about right.

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

@OP: Are you sure you have simply not forgotten about the new charge mechanic that is basicly inseperable from the M2TW-engine? Next time, before you charge, make sure that your cavalry is standing still and turned in the direction they are going to charge aready before initiating the charge. Also make sure the distance to the target it quite long, 60 to 70 meters, so you give your horses proper time to prepare. If you do those things the M2TW engine will give you a devestating charge, this is the engine with the most devestating charges after all.

In short, you need the cavalry to hold an unbroken line whilst charging and make sure they are charging already before they enter the range where they lower their lances.

[QuintusSertorius]

@OP: Are you sure you have simply not forgotten about the new charge mechanic that is basicly inseperable from the M2TW-engine? Next time, before you charge, make sure that your cavalry is standing still and turned in the direction they are going to charge aready before initiating the charge. Also make sure the distance to the target it quite long, 60 to 70 meters, so you give your horses proper time to prepare. If you do those things the M2TW engine will give you a devestating charge, this is the engine with the most devestating charges after all.

In short, you need the cavalry to hold an unbroken line whilst charging and make sure they are charging already before they enter the range where they lower their lances.

I've never played M2TW, only EB on RTW.

It sounds like the RTW engine was more forgiving about facing and formation (I often didn't bother stopping them and turning them to initiate the charge), as long as you got the distance right. But it also sounds like the minimum charging distance is longer than it was in EB.

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

I've never played M2TW, only EB on RTW.

It sounds like the RTW engine was more forgiving about facing and formation (I often didn't bother stopping them and turning them to initiate the charge), as long as you got the distance right. But it also sounds like the minimum charging distance is longer than it was in EB.

The charge distance is not tied to engine, but is adjustable, most mods have it between 30 and 50 meters. You can check in the unit stats how long it is for this mod.

Cavalry charges in M2TW works different, heavy cavalry in RTW was effectively overpowered, you could almost charge your enemy within any kind of condition, now you have to carefully set up your cavalry before giving them the order to charge.

Heavy cavalry does even more charge damage in M2TW (in vanilla it is possible to wipe a whole unit with a single charge...), so I would not call RTW cavalry overpowered in comparison, but yeah it is more flexible and easier to use.

10 to 15 seems not too bad, but it could be a bit more...

Most likely caused by the mod downgrading weapon lethality so that most units hit get up again.

[Orphydian]

Ive played lots of battles and cav doesnt charge right most of the cases. Distance and other are not the issues (ofc you cnat charge on short distances).

[Principe Alessandro]

Cavalry charges in M2TW works different, heavy cavalry in RTW was effectively overpowered, you could almost charge your enemy within any kind of condition, now you have to carefully set up your cavalry before giving them the order to charge.

I've never played M2TW, only EB on RTW.

It sounds like the RTW engine was more forgiving about facing and formation (I often didn't bother stopping them and turning them to initiate the charge), as long as you got the distance right. But it also sounds like the minimum charging distance is longer than it was in EB.

Definitively are very different regarding combat mechanics, movements are more clunky and units feel less responsive to your orders in M2TW, cavalry needs a lot of space to charge and you have to make them walk at first, you shouldn't double click initially.

[QuintusSertorius]

Cavalry charges in M2TW works different, heavy cavalry in RTW was effectively overpowered, you could almost charge your enemy within any kind of condition, now you have to carefully set up your cavalry before giving them the order to charge.

In EB you needed facing and formation to get an optimal charge, but you could get away with an effective one just by ensuring you had the distancing right.

[Principe Alessandro]

In EB you needed facing and formation to get an optimal charge, but you could get away with an effective one just by ensuring you had the distancing right.

Well yes, but I anyway I find those charges pointless unless you have some Parthian heavy, until now with Pergamon my bodyguards acted more like a medium cavalry because the condition for an optimal charge never appeared.

[QuintusSertorius]

Well yes, but I anyway I find those charges pointless unless you have some Parthian heavy, until now with Pergamon my bodyguards acted more like a medium cavalry because the condition for an optimal charge never appeared.

As long as the lances levelled and trumpet played, those charges in EB1 were not pointless, and worked with any lance-armed cavalry. Including Illyrian Hippeis and Curepos. Indeed the light lancers were much more effective than the heavies, because they could retreat and re-charge many more times.

[Principe Alessandro]

As long as the lances levelled and trumpet played, those charges in EB1 were not pointless, and worked with any lance-armed cavalry. Including Illyrian Hippeis and Curepos. Indeed the light lancers were much more effective than the heavies, because they could retreat and re-charge many more times.

I'm speaking about EB2, here the formation of cavalry shouldn't be disrupted by anything, even a rock that stands in the way can make a failure of your charge, considering also the fact that enemy skirmishers screens the army I think that could be nearly impossible to find the good moment to make a charge.

[Orphydian]

Ive played MED II but the charges in this mod dont work the same

[Orphydian]

the charges in EB were more thna effective if you had lance or even spear cav no matter they were heavy or light. Curepos or leuce epos have a charge value over 30 and thats more thna decent.

[Chris P. Bacon]

the charges in EB were more thna effective if you had lance or even spear cav no matter they were heavy or light. Curepos or leuce epos have a charge value over 30 and thats more thna decent.

Even from a massive distance away cav charges in EB II are not effective at all. Even in the rare case when the whole unit attacks they barely do any damage. I charged a Carthaginian Elite cav into a hastati fixed on my phalanx and they got about 10-15 kills max. In EB 1 (whose combat system I love) a charge from the back from such an elite cav unit would kill dozens and instantly rout the unit.

[Bernardius]

10 to 15 seems not too bad, but it could be a bit more...

[Funeh]

You get the best charge when you position your cavalry in perfect distance and then only one (not double)click on the enemy, cavalry will walk few steps , then they will automaticaly charge in formation and thats the most devastating..

[QuintusSertorius]

You get the best charge when you position your cavalry in perfect distance and then only one (not double)click on the enemy, cavalry will walk few steps , then they will automaticaly charge in formation and thats the most devastating..

Really?

[Principe Alessandro]

Really?

Yes, initially you can see the cavalry simply walking toward the enemy line, at a certain point begins to run on its own without giving them any order, but you need to pay attention if there are obstacles such like rocks or a unit of skirmishers or the charge won't hit with full power.

[Emperor Hantscher]

There is something in the EBII stats that's a little different. You can tell when you look at the aftermath of a battle. Bodies are dispersed where other mods or vanilla you get just one pile of bodies.

EBII seems to actually have some penetration in a charge, eve with infantry. Instead of other mods they don't just collide into each other and fight in a line. I think that might be effecting the cavalry charge. But they are still ok. They just won't plow over an entire unit in one charge.