[Submod] Stop Barbarian Empires! (0.0.1)

[Maetharin]

Hi!
First of all, this is my first released Submod, and it´s something rather small and just realized in a few minutes, so I´m open for constructive criticism!

If you, as i was, were annoyed to no end by all these gigantic barbarian empires, which formed up no matter which mod or submod you applied, this is the Submod for you!
It limits the options barbaric factions have when winning a battle over a settlement, so they´re now only able to subjugate, sack and liberate.

I know this absolutely cripples serious development for barbarian factions, and i intend to find a way to soften the blow!
Especially when two barbarian factions of different subculture fight, it just whittles both sides down, or when a barbarian faction atatcks another faction with more than one settlement...

But in the end i hope some of you enjoyed this Submod and whish everyone well!

[LAKEDAIMON]

thats a great idea and i think its historical ( it would be very difficult for a tiny tribe to control double its starting land within a turn) and its much like greek city-states. Also, i have a suggestion; can you decrease confederation possibilities but darstically increase it when romans or carthaginians are going to conquer a tribe...

[Maetharin]

thats a great idea and i think its historical ( it would be very difficult for a tiny tribe to control double its starting land within a turn) and its much like greek city-states. Also, i have a suggestion; can you decrease confederation possibilities but darstically increase it when romans or carthaginians are going to conquer a tribe...

Thanks for liking it!
But as I´m a beginner in modding, i still have some familiarising to do...

[vpapako]

So if you are playing as a barbarian faction you can never expand beyond the regions you can confederate with?

[quaz601]

so by subjugate do you mean satrapies or client states? by the way this is an amazing idea especially if you're a Greek or Eastern faction and want to see Rome become a powerhouse since they spend so much time fighting barbarians the only downside is it would be a massive challenge to fight as a barbarian faction

[gregnaar]

Hey i had an idea quite like this some time ago, if you you like it, you are free to use it
"i think everyone saw that the AI can go a bit crazy, and can expand in a very unrealistic way (and the player can too).

-So if it is even possible, the ability to peacefully occupy/Raze/Loot should be removed for most factions, except: Rome, Carthage, Egypt, Macedon, Seleucids (the remnants of Alexander's empire) or no exceptions if its easier to implement that way.

-The other factions could only sack settlements, take the money, and then move on, or liberate. -- HOWEVER if they DO have their culture dominant in the region, they could take a settlement.
It could be even tied further to the culture:
-if at least 40% of the attacking factions culture is present in the region: they could raze the defeated settlement
-if at least 60% of the attacking factions culture is present in the region: they could loot the defeated settlement
-if at least 80% of the attacking factions culture is present in the region: they could peacefully occupy the defeated settlement

This way, there would be eventually a bigger empire in each culture, or they would fight aganist other cultures and form confederations."

Cheers

[Maetharin]

Hey i had an idea quite like this some time ago, if you you like it, you are free to use it
"i think everyone saw that the AI can go a bit crazy, and can expand in a very unrealistic way (and the player can too).

-So if it is even possible, the ability to peacefully occupy/Raze/Loot should be removed for most factions, except: Rome, Carthage, Egypt, Macedon, Seleucids (the remnants of Alexander's empire) or no exceptions if its easier to implement that way.

-The other factions could only sack settlements, take the money, and then move on, or liberate. -- HOWEVER if they DO have their culture dominant in the region, they could take a settlement.
It could be even tied further to the culture:
-if at least 40% of the attacking factions culture is present in the region: they could raze the defeated settlement
-if at least 60% of the attacking factions culture is present in the region: they could loot the defeated settlement
-if at least 80% of the attacking factions culture is present in the region: they could peacefully occupy the defeated settlement

This way, there would be eventually a bigger empire in each culture, or they would fight aganist other cultures and form confederations."

Cheers

Hmm, I quite like that idea...
But that´d be way to advanced for me, I´d have no idea where to start...
Something i also like to play with would be them having the option to loot, not sack, once they area able to confederate. Like fighting wars with your confederatal neighbors and intimidating them, by oblitering their Armies and besieging them and to offer a piece treaty with the joining of a Confederation.
I tried it with the Iceni, and it worked quite well, though it sucked not being able to conquer any land on the Continent... All nearby coastal areas have been confederated pretty fast too.. Nervi for example...

[Dresden]

As a side note I have it set in DeI so that the AI won't sack (I can't remember the table offhand but its one of the cai tables). You may want to change that for this submod. I did it for DeI because with all factions having the sack option, the AI would many times sack rather than occupy and it hindered their expansion.

As far as the submod goes, I had an idea a long time ago to try to make it so that barbarians would just form hordes and not really take territory. I never got around to fully developing the idea. But, it is an interesting concept.

[Maetharin]

As a side note I have it set in DeI so that the AI won't sack (I can't remember the table offhand but its one of the cai tables). You may want to change that for this submod. I did it for DeI because with all factions having the sack option, the AI would many times sack rather than occupy and it hindered their expansion.

As far as the submod goes, I had an idea a long time ago to try to make it so that barbarians would just form hordes and not really take territory. I never got around to fully developing the idea. But, it is an interesting concept.

Well i had the Idea from your city Sack, Liberation and Diplomacy Options mod, so maybe I´ll look into DeI functions and hope to understand any of it

I really hope I can get this done to my, and of course all yours, satisfaction, but as i said, I´m no more than a novice in this matter, so it could take a while...

But as the hordes idea, how about scripting one barbarian AI controlled faction to just get a gigantic army, two or 3 full stack, at least, but filled with mostly levies, some heavy infantry and a huge aggression boost
I´ve got no idea about scripting though...

[Maetharin]

So if you are playing as a barbarian faction you can never expand beyond the regions you can confederate with?

Well you could subjugate those factions small enough to do so, and allieing yourself with the ones you can´t...

[MagicCuboid]

Wow this is actually a pretty subtle way to represent barbarian tribal systems. It'd be interesting to try and play as a barbarian with this mod. Not necessarily to win, but with some personal goal in mind it could be a unique challenge.

[gregnaar]

Hmm, I quite like that idea...

Im glad to hear it
But yeah, its easier to be said than done
Ill watch your progress and hope for the best! have some rep sir

[MisterClever]

Very cool Downloading now! I was just thinking in my latest campaign how ridiculous it is to see huge Germanic 'empires' gobbling up the planet...

[MisterClever]

As a side note I have it set in DeI so that the AI won't sack (I can't remember the table offhand but its one of the cai tables). You may want to change that for this submod. I did it for DeI because with all factions having the sack option, the AI would many times sack rather than occupy and it hindered their expansion.

As far as the submod goes, I had an idea a long time ago to try to make it so that barbarians would just form hordes and not really take territory. I never got around to fully developing the idea. But, it is an interesting concept.

Dresden... I was wondering if the DEI could make this core in DEI and/or with scripting or make it tied to a high level civil technology chain to allow "barbarian" tribes to starting holding territory?

[MisterClever]

Well you could subjugate those factions small enough to do so, and allieing yourself with the ones you can´t...

It's one of those total war moments... unless the faction you are playing did 'build an empire' of sorts like, say a more established feudalistic styled barbarian faction like the Odyrisian Kingdom etc, playing a Barbarian faction should really only be 'roleplayed' or make it something only the AI suffers I suppose? Though that get's me wondering.

Brings up the question... if you can tie the conquest options(sack,liberate,occupy etc) to a culture, you could have the barbarians divided into two camps or tiers. One camp are those with 'kingdoms' or something that could have plausible empires, but give them a large penalty for doing so (like in the PO nightmare submod).

Something the DEI team was doing with the Lugii giving them an eastern German subculture. You could reuse a working one, say with the Daco-Thracian culture and rename it to something suitable for this idea. The other camp are those that cannot build empires at all. Namely most of them

Like I mentioned in some other posts, I don't know if that's something you can "unlock" for a second camp Barbarian faction through scripting or technology(ies) and thus represent the "Barbarian" factions that eventually felt the influence from Rome or Greek neighbours and became settled down and built up infrastructure, codified laws, and such we associate with "civilized" peoples?

Would be something dynamic to roleplay as. Start off as a horde-like faction, settle down, learn technologies and start to unlock more and more civilized buildings and the eventual ability to capture and keep territories.

[Dresden]

I don't think you can unlock occupation options with technologies, unfortunately.

[vpapako]

I don't think you can unlock occupation options with technologies, unfortunately.

Can you unlock them with reforms/scripts? Or is it possible to make them available only to confederations? Another option would be to make the AI more willing to make vassals than to annex territories but a) this doesn't concern the barbarian factions and b) I don't know if feasible at all.

[quaz601]

tried this for a bit though I combined with my clients to satrapies submod got some interesting results the Nervii who usually dominate now have 4 vassals a mix of Celtic and Germanic and are at war with the Iceni, the Arverni have one vassal and are at war with an alliance of Iberian tribes, Massalia finally has a chance and expanded into Provencia, the Lugii finally lost one of their proviences to rebels after being sacked so many times, also would be interesting to make the same restrictions for African and Arabian factions

[Dresden]

Can you unlock them with reforms/scripts? Or is it possible to make them available only to confederations? Another option would be to make the AI more willing to make vassals than to annex territories but a) this doesn't concern the barbarian factions and b) I don't know if feasible at all.

From what I understand the choices are simply set in one table by overall culture. I could be wrong, but I don't think there are many options other than that.

[vpapako]

Sorry, what do you mean by overall culture?