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Thread: Goods and Bads.

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  1. #1

    Default Goods and Bads.

    Creating a thread like this may help CA (If they read to find some last minute mistakes and fix them. Better not to write here WOW posts or (I agree, disagree) than thorough findings of yours.)

    This time the demo looks really promising comparing to the first one in which I have stated very bad things and was dissapointed. Right now they seem to either have corrected by themselves or heard our voices to correct most of the annoying issues of last demo.

    Goods

    -Graphics..whatever is to be said will be little...nothing really to comment than acceptance of excellence (More interunit variety, blood-arrow effects fixed, better framerates etc.)
    -Battles do last longer and no more instant routing or splatter.
    -Firearms are really impressive when used effectively. Cannot cause too much casualties not from a mystic power but bad utilization. It is simple logic, if you fire your muskets in a mass of troops from good range...you massacre. previously in MTW and STW there was a secret power which prevented them to cause casualties.
    -Cavalry charges are now more effective and cavalry has staying power.
    -AI skirmishers do fire their weapons continuesly.
    -Projectile trajectories are improved in many cases (But still have problems which will mention below)
    -Aztec campaigns seems will be one of the most challenging seeing the graphics-units-difficult size odds .
    -Tekken idle stance is removed?
    -Very good tremble effect of firearms.

    Generally the improvement is so much that we can say the package is near to perfection...near

    Bads

    -When units clash to melee, they keep only the first line in melee while the others behind mostly look.
    -The weapon swing rates are very slow and you see mostly the melee between them to look to each other and suddenly with a sudden neurokinetic power (for cavalry men) and slow moving slash (for infantry men) to do a blow. There is a very large interval between weapon swings.
    -There is a mortar effect for all foot projectiles (except firearms) which fire in a very curved unrealistic trajectory over friendly units. I know of this issue when I was optimizing projectiles for my mod and this is probably caused by decrease of projectile speeds while the range is not decreased. If the range will decrease..this probably fixes (look what I am doing again..no I will not mod)
    -The mass of units looks very light and most of them look like ...paper in the battlefield than unique entities. Especially for cavalrymen which should be able to break formations easier. Also this causes formations to be really unchanged in the battle than realistically interact with the massing of men.
    -Unit speeds still need 5-10 % decrease for realism.
    -Sounds in many occasions are very unrealistic especially for bow fire. (in RTW it was very good especially when the arrows landed to men). Now when the arrows land you think that men are slapped to the chick than receive an armour or shield penetration hit. Musket fire is very good but when it is 100 mtrs or more from afar..it is not heard but you only listen the annoying slap hit sounds. I remember sounds from RTW and MTW that were far better than this.
    -Musketmen/arquebushiers do not fire properly when out of skirmish mode..sometimes do not fire at all. They do not turn unless you turn them. Generally this has to be fixed.

    That is all for starters.

    Let all of you place here your thorough comments to help CA perfect this fine game.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Goods and Bads.

    Not stating any goods, since they don't need to fix them :wink:

    The bad:
    • The menu is awful
    • When the battles start, the camera controls are messed up. Pressing the arrow keys left and right only rotates the camera, and zooming in and out rotates the camera so you look to the sky or the ground (with + and -, my mouse wheel has stopped working)
    • It is hard to recognize living/fighting units from the dead bodies
    • Well... the shortcut is ugly, please fix!
    • When the cavalry charge, no one gets killed. Only a few seconds after, like 20 people or so died. Still a bit more powerful. I'd also like archers to be more deadly, after two volleys in the "main battle" in the tutorial maybe one guy died.
    Last edited by Arakorn; October 27, 2006 at 04:40 AM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Goods and Bads.

    Also another bad I have forgotten:

    Bads

    -The banner system is really causing not only lag but frustration. The instant thing I did was to disable it. There are so many banners that for instance maybe in reality 7-10 banner-standard carriers existed in reality for a 1000 men unit size...now you have more than 10 for a unit of 50-60 men!

  4. #4
    Spart's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Goods and Bads.

    Mostly agree with you both.. Battle system doesn't look very smooth, the men are just walking around there very, very slowly and strike someone maybe every half minutes. And the cavalry charges never seem to break units, horses just stop there and start slowly wandering around.

    Arakorn-eir, yeah, the shortcut looks like ****, I hate that. Doesen't even look like a helmet (or whatever it is).

    But when looking at the bright side, these things don't seem too bad. I mean, easy to fix, in a patch or by modders.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Goods and Bads.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus(FIN)
    Mostly agree with you both.. Battle system doesn't look very smooth, the men are just walking around there very, very slowly and strike someone maybe every half minutes. And the cavalry charges never seem to break units, horses just stop there and start slowly wandering around.

    Arakorn-eir, yeah, the shortcut looks like ****, I hate that. Doesen't even look like a helmet (or whatever it is).

    But when looking at the bright side, these things don't seem too bad. I mean, easy to fix, in a patch or by modders.
    Except for hardcored thingies, such as the charges might be (Darth? Or can this just be changed by altering the charge bonus?)

    And about that helmet, it looks like a papaerbag! :tooth:

  6. #6

    Default Re: Goods and Bads.

    Agree with the difficulty in recognising live units amongst dead bodies and the insubstantial look of the units at times. Obviously it's too late to change this but i find the sprites and thunit models bear little resemblance in may cases and the change over is jarring and ugly. Generally the game doesn't look that good zoomed out imo. Great close up but at a distance (which I play at) it doesn't look right. Personally i'd prefer if CA spent more time on the zoomed out view and made it possible to have no sprites without dropping to 10 fps rather than details that can only be seen in screenshots and when people forget about trying to fight the battle.
    I'd like a better description in the tooltips as to what the options do. For example the effects button. What effects am I toning down?

  7. #7

    Default Re: Goods and Bads.

    I won't bother with the good either as theres little point.

    THE BAD

    * Unit charge issues. Sometimes irresponsive or only the front line get stuck in.
    * Musketeers/Arquebusiers are temporamental when it comes to firing.
    * As has been said, the banners are obstructive and caused unnessary FPS drop.(can be disabled so not so terrible)
    * sometimes single units don't engage enemies even when two inches away, leading me to shout 'He's behind you!' when a dopey soldiers looks around for an enemy for ten seconds.

    Thankfully, the good points far outweighed the bad in my opinion. I'll buy it.
    'When people stop believing in God, they don’t believe in nothing — they believe in anything. '

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    Under the patronage of Nihil. So there.

  8. #8
    nightwar's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: Goods and Bads.

    Grouped units will not Obey attack commands. Example I have two cav units i click them to attack a aztec unit theyll go over to another unit and attack! This problem was in RTW aswell.
    also Range units (ARQS/Muskeets) have a HARD time fireing in Otumba i just gave up on them. I didnt notice men fighting less...thanks for pointing that out now ill dwell on it.

  9. #9
    Lusted's Avatar Look to the stars
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    Default Re: Goods and Bads.

    As for the cavalry thing. Try charging the enemy from the rear or when they are moving, cavalry does tons of damage then.

    Im a little perplexed by all the complaints of reduced kill speeds, as i thought that is what everyone wanted, and its one of the things most people asked from when did TE, though i didn't do it.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Goods and Bads.

    I thinkl that from RTW the skill speeds should be upped! When fighting a 1 on 1 it takes ages to kill (with good units). Plus the units just stood there and attacked a guy every 1o seconds max. M2 was okay, though I had one body guard fighting in my line for ages when I thought I had already killed it.

  11. #11
    Spart's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Goods and Bads.

    Generals are still unbelievably hard to kill. I played Agincourt custom battle as the french, I had culverins and scots guard, who really proved that archers are OK in M2. English just waited still and I was able to take out 70% of their army. General's bodyguard unit was demolished quickly, but the the king just wouldn't die. 4 units of archers and couple of cannons firing at him, he just stood there bravely.
    Same thing in every battle, general is surrounded by my troops, and just won't die.. Pretty annoying, when I need my units elsewhere but enemy general is holding them..

    But damn, after trying a bit custom battle, I really love this game. Cannons and archers are just so cool. :wink:
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  12. #12
    Germanicus75's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Goods and Bads.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus(FIN)
    General's bodyguard unit was demolished quickly, but the the king just wouldn't die.
    Yeah, that's what happened in MTW1 as well. You could wipe out the bodyguard in 30 secs, but the general/king would survive alone totally surrounded and attacked by your entire army for 5 minutes! :tooth:

  13. #13

    Default Re: Goods and Bads.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus(FIN)
    Generals are still unbelievably hard to kill. I played Agincourt custom battle as the french, I had culverins and scots guard, who really proved that archers are OK in M2. English just waited still and I was able to take out 70% of their army. General's bodyguard unit was demolished quickly, but the the king just wouldn't die. 4 units of archers and couple of cannons firing at him, he just stood there bravely.
    Same thing in every battle, general is surrounded by my troops, and just won't die.. Pretty annoying, when I need my units elsewhere but enemy general is holding them..

    But damn, after trying a bit custom battle, I really love this game. Cannons and archers are just so cool. :wink:
    That's weird, I think they were quite easy to kill (well, same as in RTW), and that's enough for me.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Goods and Bads.

    Im a little perplexed by all the complaints of reduced kill speeds, as i thought that is what everyone wanted, and its one of the things most people asked from when did TE, though i didn't do it.
    By "reduced killspeeds", obviously we didn't want them to fight slower and take a longer time between each time they strike, and you know it.
    Last edited by InferiorBeing; October 27, 2006 at 07:13 AM.

  15. #15
    Lusted's Avatar Look to the stars
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    Default Re: Goods and Bads.

    But that's what they've done, they fight slower.
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  16. #16

    Default Re: Goods and Bads.

    That is correct. Slow kill rate can be achieved with many other ways than slow-replay-swings and occasional wandering.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Goods and Bads.

    No, of course we wouldn't! The soldiers visibly parry and block, so it doesn't look any weird at all.
    Last edited by InferiorBeing; October 27, 2006 at 07:19 AM.

  18. #18
    God-Emperor of Mankind's Avatar Apperently I protect
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    Default Re: Goods and Bads.

    Quote Originally Posted by InferiorBeing
    No, of course we we wouldn't! The soldiers visibly parry and block, so it doesn't look any weird at all.
    Actually most people would .
    Maybe not you or Darth but most would I'm afraid.

  19. #19
    The Mongol's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Goods and Bads.

    I love most of MTW2 but there is still the little niggles that need to be ironed out

    - Cavalry charges aren't devastating
    - Gunners still can't get it together and are very hesitative
    - While Generals look ok in battle and they are stronger it's ridiculous when the general is the last unit and takes 50 sword strikes to die (This happened in RTW and this almost cost me the battle of Pavia because of time limit)

    I haven't played the demo a whole lot but those are the main things I would like fixed. I don't mind the banners all that much, afterall you can turn them off unlike bugs.

  20. #20
    Germanicus75's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Goods and Bads.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cuahchicqueh
    I love most of MTW2 but there is still the little niggles that need to be ironed out

    - Cavalry charges aren't devastating
    - Gunners still can't get it together and are very hesitative
    - While Generals look ok in battle and they are stronger it's ridiculous when the general is the last unit and takes 50 sword strikes to die (This happened in RTW and this almost cost me the battle of Pavia because of time limit)

    I haven't played the demo a whole lot but those are the main things I would like fixed. I don't mind the banners all that much, afterall you can turn them off unlike bugs.
    Agree with all your points on the issues.

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