New revelations about Iraqi women raped by USA forces

[alhoon]

There are photos that prove rape took place in Iraqi prisons in 2004. The agents sent there to "teach new interrogation techniques" raped prisoners. I'm outraged about these atrocious creatures that found a place of power to abuse people. The girl was -14- years old, and they killed her afterwards. They raped and killed a 14 years old and took pictures of it.


http://www.independent.ie/world-news...-26539442.html


Another thing is, that most sources were more graphic. I'm genuily shocked by those and by the reporters that showed them. I had trouble sleeping. A girl was raped and killed and several media Showed the photos without blurring the girl's face or trying any kind of modicum or respect for the dead and abused girl.
What kind of moron shows these photos openly? They should be reserved for the courtroom.

[Dante Von Hespburg]

Opened with links added.

[alhoon]

And if you think that sociopathic soldiers raping civilians of the enemy is an unfortunate eventuality of war... 97.5% of sexual assault cases that happen INSIDE the USA army go unpunished according to this article.
http://mic.com/articles/29935/sexual...ren-t-punished
That is, 19 out of 20 cases go unpunished. Probably it's because many are not reported but it's an insane amount.

[conon394]

And if you think that sociopathic soldiers raping civilians of the enemy is an unfortunate eventuality of war... 97.5% of sexual assault cases that happen INSIDE the USA army go unpunished according to this article.
http://mic.com/articles/29935/sexual...ren-t-punished
That is, 19 out of 20 cases go unpunished. Probably it's because many are not reported but it's an insane amount.

Although there is a bit goal line moving in article by starting with a case of 'groping' (un discribed in form, duration or repetitiveness) and than taking to calling it allowing a rapist to go unpunished. Which is not to say lesser types of sexual harassment don't deserve punishment but they should not be elvated to rape just as not all murder is treated as murder in the first degree.

In any case if you want to more depressed read this article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/wom...ed-Forces.html

Obviously there is no easy solution and given the rate of reported, and estimated unreported rape and non prosecution or ignored rapes on collage campuses for example I am not sure the Military is out of line with the larger society. There is for example, however the key issue of reporting and chain of command so in cases where a senior officer/NCO might be the issue or in small detached groups where there would little like for people making waves all added to the general problem of the he said she said arguments that always used.

I would argue that Military that is going to do full gender integration - like the US or UK - do need to do something like an ombudsman with staff and investigatory powers outside of the internal chain of command. A system that might get abused perhaps and not likely to be much help in isolated front line FOB but it would signal a shift that if done well could really change culture.


On the Iraq situation I think the larger problem is one of institutions. The US military was simply not designed to occupy countries and as was noted (at the time) it was trying it with way less troops than needed, many of whom be they national guard (many of whom never expended the job) or reedy reserve (who never knew they were in it) or even regulars who had just had one deployment too many. That's no excuse and I thing the Administration at the time did damage control and minimized apparent problem because it did not want to look at how its own policy lead up to the problem.

[Farnan]

Although there is a bit goal line moving in article by starting with a case of 'groping' (un discribed in form, duration or repetitiveness) and than taking to calling it allowing a rapist to go unpunished. Which is not to say lesser types of sexual harassment don't deserve punishment but they should not be elvated to rape just as not all murder is treated as murder in the first degree.

In any case if you want to more depressed read this article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/wom...ed-Forces.html

Obviously there is no easy solution and given the rate of reported, and estimated unreported rape and non prosecution or ignored rapes on collage campuses for example I am not sure the Military is out of line with the larger society. There is for example, however the key issue of reporting and chain of command so in cases where a senior officer/NCO might be the issue or in small detached groups where there would little like for people making waves all added to the general problem of the he said she said arguments that always used.

I would argue that Military that is going to do full gender integration - like the US or UK - do need to do something like an ombudsman with staff and investigatory powers outside of the internal chain of command. A system that might get abused perhaps and not likely to be much help in isolated front line FOB but it would signal a shift that if done well could really change culture.

We do:

http://www.sapr.mil/

And there are SARC (Sexual Assault Response Coordinators) down to the Brigade Level in the Army (not sure about the other services) and Victim Advocates down to Battalion level in the Army.

http://myduty.mil/public/docs/respon...al_assault.pdf

Sexual Assault investigation is the purview of CID, OSI and NCIS which report up to the Department of the Army, Department of the Air Force and Department of the Navy level.

http://www.cid.army.mil/
http://www.osi.af.mil/
http://www.ncis.navy.mil/Pages/publicdefault.aspx

The military has also established the safe help line allowing military members to contact this number which is completely out of the Chain of Command:

https://www.safehelpline.org/

Now with the percentage of cases going to court martial. One reason it is so low is the Military allows the restricted reporting option for victims. Restricted reporting means the person reports to a medical official or victim advocate that he or she is a victim of sexual assault. Then the VICTIM CHOOSES the restricted reporting option which keeps him or her anonymous, but allows the victim to receive medical and psychological support. This prevents any criminal investigation. The DOD allows this option to enable victims who may not want the fact they have been raped to be public to receive support.

https://www.safehelpline.org/reporting-options.cfm

Another issue is the broad nature of sexual assault in the military. Groping is considered sexual assault in the military and not sexual harassment. While a crime that should definitely be punished, it is also one that is very hard to prove without witnesses (unless the person left hand marks there isn't physical evidence unlike rape).

The low reporting issue is one common across the US. We need to fix that problem in the entire US before we can fix it in the military (think about how many comedies show date rape (a man taking advantage of an intoxicated woman) as a humorous event). There are problems in the DOD but we are trying to fix it. I have served under 4 Brigade Commanders, every one of them would have instituted the death penalty for rape if they had the option.

[Roma_Victrix]

I read a report about the potentially higher number of (unreported) rapes in the US military a long time ago on the Washington Post. However, this figure of 97% seems incredible. It's time for them to clean house. Of course, some of this rape is also male-on-male, so that would be a huge reason for them not to report it! The stigma and shame a victim would have within his or her own unit, let alone broadcasting this truth to the media and the world, would be enough. And that doesn't even take into account the recently (1993 - 2011) overturned "don't ask, don't tell" policy about being openly gay. If the rapist in the case of a male-on-male rape denied that the sex was non-consensual, then with no other witness or even complicit "witnesses" in the rape who are friends of the rapist, the victim could potentially face expulsion from the US military according to this policy.

As for the Iraqis in Abu Ghraib, this doesn't come as much of a surprise considering the atrocious set of pictures that were leaked to the press several years ago. Obama is right to censor them, because, as the article says, the written descriptions are depressing enough. There's no need to give ISIS some much-needed propaganda fuel over this. It's also a good thing to respect the dead, as you say, like the 14-year-old girl who was raped, let alone the living victims who can still remember this.

[Condottiere 40K]

Going by another commentary from a military escapee, recruits tend to be rather low quality, to the extent that female colleagues rate an escort at night to ensure no mishaps.

[Farnan]

And if you think that sociopathic soldiers raping civilians of the enemy is an unfortunate eventuality of war... 97.5% of sexual assault cases that happen INSIDE the USA army go unpunished according to this article.
http://mic.com/articles/29935/sexual...ren-t-punished
That is, 19 out of 20 cases go unpunished. Probably it's because many are not reported but it's an insane amount.

I read a report about the potentially higher number of (unreported) rapes in the US military a long time ago on the Washington Post. However, this figure of 97% seems incredible. It's time for them to clean house. Of course, some of this rape is also male-on-male, so that would be a huge reason for them not to report it! The stigma and shame a victim would have within his or her own unit, let alone broadcasting this truth to the media and the world, would be enough. And that doesn't even take into account the recently (1993 - 2011) overturned "don't ask, don't tell" policy about being openly gay. If the rapist in the case of a male-on-male rape denied that the sex was non-consensual, then with no other witness or even complicit "witnesses" in the rape who are friends of the rapist, the victim could potentially face expulsion from the US military according to this policy.

As for the Iraqis in Abu Ghraib, this doesn't come as much of a surprise considering the atrocious set of pictures that were leaked to the press several years ago. Obama is right to censor them, because, as the article says, the written descriptions are depressing enough. There's no need to give ISIS some much-needed propaganda fuel over this. It's also a good thing to respect the dead, as you say, like the 14-year-old girl who was raped, let alone the living victims who can still remember this.

There is a lot more to this than the obvious, I'll get to it in bit.

Going by another commentary from a military escapee, recruits tend to be rather low quality, to the extent that female colleagues rate an escort at night to ensure no mishaps.

Nothing to do with recruit quality, everything to do with a lot of young men and women combined with alcohol. Colleges also have rape problems and advise women not to go out alone.

[Col. Tartleton]

There are photos that prove rape took place in Iraqi prisons in 2004. The agents sent there to "teach new interrogation techniques" raped prisoners. I'm outraged about these atrocious creatures that found a place of power to abuse people. The girl was -14- years old, and they killed her afterwards. They raped and killed a 14 years old and took pictures of it.


http://www.independent.ie/world-news...-26539442.html


Another thing is, that most sources were more graphic. I'm genuily shocked by those and by the reporters that showed them. I had trouble sleeping. A girl was raped and killed and several media Showed the photos without blurring the girl's face or trying any kind of modicum or respect for the dead and abused girl.
What kind of moron shows these photos openly? They should be reserved for the courtroom.

Do you have an article that supports these claims, because that article doesn't say anything about what you're claiming.

[alhoon]

Do you have an article that supports these claims, because that article doesn't say anything about what you're claiming.

Not one that can be posted in the site. The articles that show the photos include photos of the horrible crime taking place. Which is why I made the 2nd part of the post; I'm amazed that so many sources posted so terrible stuff.

And I suggest you take care before looking for those photos because they are really horrible. As it's said in the article itself.
"Maj Gen Taguba, who retired in January 2007, said he supported the President's decision, adding: "These pictures show torture, abuse, rape and every indecency. "The mere description of these pictures is horrendous enough, take my word for it." "

Also, the article I posted supports those claims. I don't know what you mean.
"The latest photographs relate to 400 cases of alleged abuse between 2001 and 2005 in Abu Ghraib and six other prisons"

[Col. Tartleton]

Not one that can be posted in the site. The articles that show the photos include photos of the horrible crime taking place. Which is why I made the 2nd part of the post; I'm amazed that so many sources posted so terrible stuff.

And I suggest you take care before looking for those photos because they are really horrible. As it's said in the article itself.
"Maj Gen Taguba, who retired in January 2007, said he supported the President's decision, adding: "These pictures show torture, abuse, rape and every indecency. "The mere description of these pictures is horrendous enough, take my word for it." "

Also, the article I posted supports those claims. I don't know what you mean.
"The latest photographs relate to 400 cases of alleged abuse between 2001 and 2005 in Abu Ghraib and six other prisons"

There's no mention of a 14 yo girl being raped or murdered.

Do they have an explanation of why she was in these prisons? I'm more concerned about that aspect than the sexual abuses we're already well aware of if not the details of them. Its not secret that there was gross misconduct at Abu Ghraib and similar facilities.

I mean its one thing if the prison guards abuse suspected criminals/terrorists/insurgents/etc. Not remotely condoned, but its something you should expect and try to minimize/stop. However I'm concerned how this 14 year old girl ended up at Abu Ghraib in the first place.

[Roma_Victrix]

I mean its one thing if the prison guards abuse suspected criminals/terrorists/insurgents/etc. Not remotely condoned, but its something you should expect and try to minimize/stop. However I'm concerned how this 14 year old girl ended up at Abu Ghraib in the first place.

Apparently this is old news. The claim comes from witnesses at Abu Ghraib who were interviewed by the Guardian newspaper.

What's the point of this? Rape happend in every war.
Although i am not a fan of the USA, i'm sure that atrocities commited under the US occupation completely pale in comparison to what ISIS is doing right now.

ISIS crucifies people in broad daylight and tweets proudly about how they behead people, whereas some US authorities tried to put a lid on the sexually humiliating and intimidating stuff (like threatening prisoners with dogs) that happened in Abu Ghraib before it hit the media. Therein lies the difference, I suppose. ISIS, by the very nature of being a terrorist group, is all too happy to broadcast the evil twisted stuff they do in order to invoke fear and more recruits to their cause from the faithful. The US military, at the very least, is afraid of being seen as reckless and immoral with its prisoners and tries to control the PR narrative by keeping such images out of the public eye.

[hellheaven1987]

ISIS crucifies people in broad daylight and tweets proudly about how they behead people, whereas some US authorities tried to put a lid on the sexually humiliating and intimidating stuff (like threatening prisoners with dogs) that happened in Abu Ghraib before it hit the media. Therein lies the difference, I suppose. ISIS, by the very nature of being a terrorist group, is all too happy to broadcast the evil twisted stuff they do in order to invoke fear and more recruits to their cause from the faithful. The US military, at the very least, is afraid of being seen as reckless and immoral with its prisoners and tries to control the PR narrative by keeping such images out of the public eye.

In other words, both are evil.

[alhoon]

Therein lies the difference, I suppose. ISIS, by the very nature of being a terrorist group, is all too happy to broadcast the evil twisted stuff they do in order to invoke fear and more recruits to their cause from the faithful. The US military,
...tries to control the PR narrative by keeping such images out of the public eye.

And the Media are all too happy to go ISIS and post terrible and shocking pictures.
And since we're in that, I also include in the terrible and shocking stuff the video with the beheading of the journalist. I haven't watched it nor I plan to. But since it has given people nightmares over here, I guess it wasn't sufficiently worked over.

We're turning to ancient Rome.

[Mayer]

What's the point of this? Rape happend in every war.
Although i am not a fan of the USA, i'm sure that atrocities commited under the US occupation completely pale in comparison to what ISIS is doing right now.

[alhoon]

Although i am not a fan of the USA, i'm sure that atrocities commited under the US occupation completely pale in comparison to what ISIS is doing right now.

Of course they do, but that's not the point.
Aside of the atrocity of the crimes, there's also the weirdness of the media that went completely graphic with this, posting photos of the event without any regard for the dead girl or for any case any regard for their readers/viewers.

What's the point of this? Rape happend in every war.

And if you think that sociopathic soldiers raping civilians of the enemy is an unfortunate eventuality of war... 97.5% of sexual assault cases that happen INSIDE the USA army go unpunished according to this article.
http://mic.com/articles/29935/sexual...ren-t-punished
That is, 19 out of 20 cases go unpunished. Probably it's because many are not reported but it's an insane amount.

Rape happened in every war (which is still not something to be tolerated) but rapes within the same army where the majority of the sexual assaults are being unpunished (many aren't even reported out of shame) are not.

[conon394]

The low reporting issue is one common across the US. We need to fix that problem in the entire US before we can fix it in the military (think about how many comedies show date rape (a man taking advantage of an intoxicated woman) as a humorous event). There are problems in the DOD but we are trying to fix it. I have served under 4 Brigade Commanders, every one of them would have instituted the death penalty for rape if they had the option.

That was really the key point I was also trying to make. And As I said from the quality studies I have read the Military is actually doing a better job (in more difficult circumstances) than say the US College/University system. In case Good post Farnan and I am glad to see the US military does seem to be trying several approaches to take the issue seriously. But has you say the unlying culture accross the US remains and that is not likely to change rapidly no mater how many official policies are put in place.

[conon394]

Rape happened in every war (which is still not something to be tolerated) but rapes within the same army where the majority of the sexual assaults are being unpunished (many aren't even reported out of shame) are not.

However the article you a citing is well biased - unfortunately. And the fact is how many other crimes great and small are not prosecuted every year? I mean back in my College days I got blind drunk and (according to my friends) won a bar fight. In any case its clear that either I or the guy I was fighting with were guilty of Assault. But all that happened we got tossed out of the bar... unreported crime. I do not want to trivialize the issue here but is difficult to hammer the Military when the society it represents has all the same issues and often does a less good job of facing it.

[opock]

I don't understand why this didn't come out originally so that the perpetrators could be punished. Instead we got endless NYT stories and pictures about how the poor prisoners were forced to make naked pyramids.

If people were being raped, then the perpetrators should still in jail. Why are they not?

[Farnan]

I don't understand why this didn't come out originally so that the perpetrators could be punished. Instead we got endless NYT stories and pictures about how the poor prisoners were forced to make naked pyramids.

If people were being raped, then the perpetrators should still in jail. Why are they not?

They are. Its just the Army doesn't publish UCMJ reports.

Conon: One of the main problems here is that when people think rape they think violent rape which is a very small percentage of rape. Most rape is done by taking advantage of men and women who are too intoxicated to give consent or make good life decisions. That kind of rape is considered acceptable in many tv shows and movies. And that is also the least reported because the victims are afraid they will be blamed for the rape.