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Thread: These are NOT bugs (please don't report them)

  1. #1

    Default These are NOT bugs (please don't report them)

    There's a number of features and/or hardcoded limitations in M2TW. They may seem like "bugs" - but there's nothing we can do (or else we built it this way deliberately) - when you see them, that's just how it is. Team members are encouraged to post others here. I'll assemble them in this opening post for handy reference (if nothing else, when somebody reports one of these, the rest of you can respond - probably quicker than a Team Member can):

    1) Chariot/Elephant archer javelin crews do not turn when shooting/hurling. It looks ugly, but the M2TW animations for riders of this animal (and a chariot is just a different sort of M2TW elephant) do not allow for upper body pivoting.

    2) Taxation rates are not controllable in "camps". We used M2TW castles for this settlement class, and they don't allow manual change to taxation rates. Conversion to "city-style" settlements is eventually possible, so live with it until then (I'd argue it's a pretty accurate representation of the informal nature of pastoralist admin structures, anyway)

    3) Elephant vs. Elephant is inconclusive. Yes, they can't kill each other. Just don't do it. And if you think armies composed entirely of elephants should be able to slaughter one another, I'd love to see the historical proof.

    8) I have to wait one turn and build siege equipment when attacking "camps" without walls. True. The game thinks all of these are castles, and even when they don't have walls, the game is incapable of handling that fact. "All Castles Have Walls!" Minor issue - but it's hardcoded. Everything else works fine (and the sally mechanism DOES work here, thanks to the wonderful efforts of makanyane to defeat the hardcoded limitations. KEY POINT: You must build at least one Ram! The underlying code thinks these are castles and will let you build ladders and towers as well, but both are useless. The game will CTD if it sees you trying to assault a walled level 2 or 3 camp with only ladders/towers.

    12) Units hold spears upside down. A required condition of the "overhand spear" animation. It has to do with how the overhand animation works versus the underhand. For the underhand, spearpoint is on top, and rotates down and forward. The wrist orientation does not change (you can test this yourself, holding an imaginary spear). For overhand, the spearpoint is on the bottom and rotates front and up. Again the wrist orientation doesn't change (you can try this too), and that is the key.

    Stand there with your imaginary spear and try to get a top-point spear into an overhead stabbing position without letting go of the spear in order to change your grip. Just not possible. And because spears are part of the unit model (not something separate like an arrow), the hand--wrist--spear connection can't change.

    13) Barbarian/Nomad/etc Rebel leader has Greek Portrait. Only affects those who are placed on the map via script. Portraits of scripted leaders will always appear as Greeks. Not a bug.

    15) The game CTDs after I go from the Custom Battle Screen back to the Campaign Map (or vice versa). This is another M2TW bug. No known fix.

    "17) It seems to CTD mid turn and I can still hear x sound." (Happens in cases where you haven't read the game information event.)

    This most likely is not a crash, if it's the seleukid, carthaginian or baktrian turn. Instead it's the poorly optimized horde function at work, we've had reports of people waiting 5 minutes or even as many as 60 minutes. So please do not report this as a crash or a bug unless you're absolutely certain.

    Note - Previous problems that we eventually fixed or designed out of the system:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    4) Roman city E-W gates can't be entered. This is a bug we hope to fix, but for now, it is what it is. Don't report it. We know.

    5) The "minor settlements" (PSFs) don't have walls. These are intended to be open fields where battles between armies take place. There's more than enough siege warfare as it is. Imagine that there's a town just beyond the range of visibility (most ancient battles happened outside some city or town, hence the historical name of the battle. Think of this as that).

    6) Battles at "minor settlements" (PSFs) still go through the siege process. True. The game thinks these are forts, even if they aren't. And it assumes all forts have walls, even when they don't. If it takes an extra turn to get the battle going, think of it as getting force dispositions in place for battle the next day. Pretty common historically, actually.

    7) The AI army sallied from the "minor settlements" (PSFs) but won't move toward my forces. True. It's technically a bug (the AI thinks there are walls, but can't find the gate so it just sits there), but the reality is, YOU initiated this open field battle. Thus you SHOULD BE the aggressor, and not relying on some gamey siege mechanism to get an advantage. And do NOT exploit this siege glitch to actually place AI units under siege in these PSFs. You are violating the whole reason for them being there in the first place. Or rather, go ahead and do it and screw up the quality of your game. Somebody who does this probably uses cheats anyway. A pox on them.

    9) My fleets can't move past Gibraltar into the Atlantic Ocean. Other than down the small amount of North African coast. Impassable "ocean" terrain blocks movement to the north and west. In both directions and for all classes of ship. By design.

    10) My faction doesn't have a Family Button. By design. For historical reasons, the M2TW "teutonic system" is used by several EB2 factions (mostly barbarians): Aedui, Arverni, Arevaci, Boii, Lugia, Lusotannan, Pritanoi, Sweboz, and Koinon Hellenon. If you must have families, there are 19 other factions to choose from. Given the reaction to lack of families in R2TW, this will probably prove controversial - that's fine, discuss it elsewhere (NOT in this thread). And don't report it as a "bug".

    11) Cities have all this open space that my troops can't walk through. Those giant open areas? They aren't open areas. Those are the portions of the city reserved for temples, blacksmiths, govt buildings, etc. It was a minor miracle that we were able to bring the base-level DBM settlements into EB2. What we did not have was anybody who could bring in the various buildings that will grow into the afore mentioned structures. So not a bug, but a potential feature (some day).

    14) The game CTDs after I click __ faction icons on the faction Selection Menu. This is an M2TW bug. There are reports claiming that it can be fixed, but we haven't been successful doing that with EB2. Just don't click a ton of different faction icons and you won't get this CTD.

    16) The Game CTDs when I select one of the Tutorials. Unfortunately the Tutorials were never finished. Maybe some day. For now, we'll add warning text about this as part of the first Patch.


    Edit: This is a living thread, so periodically we'll add new items to the list, hide those that have been resolved, or expand upon existing explanations.
    Last edited by Kull; March 26, 2016 at 07:19 PM. Reason: Removed a large number of resolved issues
    EBII Council

  2. #2
    Zipzopdippidybopbop's Avatar Barred from the Local
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    Default Re: These are NOT bugs (please don't report them)

    Only potentially damaging one there is the E-W gate bug. Other than that, if this is the only major list of bugs then I say that you appear to have polished the mod off quite well.

  3. #3

    Default Re: These are NOT bugs (please don't report them)

    I don't understand the elephant point? Elephant vs Elephant is inconclusive? What does that mean?

  4. #4

    Default Re: These are NOT bugs (please don't report them)

    Thank you for the informations provided.

    I expected there will be such a situation with PSFs sieges turning into open battle, the AI will simply not get it. But it is true, there is already too much siege warfare in RTW and MTW2.

    May I ask what is the "teutonic system" and how does it work? I did not play the Teutonic campaign in the Kingdoms (actually, I never played unmodded kingdoms at all, seemed pointless, got it only for the great mods that usually use Kingdoms mechanics).

    And how did you restrict movements of fleets beyond the Gibraltar but allowed to go south of there? Does Iberia touch the edge of the map, to prevent ships from going north?

  5. #5
    Laetus
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    Default Re: These are NOT bugs (please don't report them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Total_Wallyer View Post
    I don't understand the elephant point? Elephant vs Elephant is inconclusive? What does that mean?
    they can't kill each other I suppose. ^^

  6. #6
    Battlefield's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: These are NOT bugs (please don't report them)

    Quote Originally Posted by AntigonosDoson View Post
    Thank you for the informations provided.

    I expected there will be such a situation with PSFs sieges turning into open battle, the AI will simply not get it. But it is true, there is already too much siege warfare in RTW and MTW2.

    May I ask what is the "teutonic system" and how does it work? I did not play the Teutonic campaign in the Kingdoms (actually, I never played unmodded kingdoms at all, seemed pointless, got it only for the great mods that usually use Kingdoms mechanics).

    And how did you restrict movements of fleets beyond the Gibraltar but allowed to go south of there? Does Iberia touch the edge of the map, to prevent ships from going north?
    Teutonic system is when your faction does not have a family tree, like the Teutonic Order faction. When your faction leader dies, it will be replaced by another general. However, it is easy to allow the faction to have a family tree through little modding.
    Rome Total War mods
    INVASIO BARBARORVM | Roma Surrectum | Rome Total Realism
    Medieval 2 Total War mods
    Stainless Steel | Europa Barbarorum II | Broken Crescent

    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
    "Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - Marcus Aurelius

  7. #7

    Default Re: These are NOT bugs (please don't report them)

    So you basically have no control over who of the generals will succeed the fallen one? And generals appear only via "adoption events" at the begining of the turn (I know it will not be technically an adoption, but...).

    I can see how it will be criticized. I will stick with the post-Alexandrian hellenistic monarchies though :-)

  8. #8

    Default Re: These are NOT bugs (please don't report them)

    Quote Originally Posted by AntigonosDoson View Post

    And how did you restrict movements of fleets beyond the Gibraltar but allowed to go south of there? Does Iberia touch the edge of the map, to prevent ships from going north?
    I doubt it, just like having impassible terrain on a map you can have impassable sea. The ocean is most likely there, you just can't put a navy on it.

  9. #9

    Default Re: These are NOT bugs (please don't report them)

    I guess it's like in the original MTW, you could only cross the atlantic with a special type of ship to go to America. So one type for the Mediterrean and one for the Atlantic (+Mediterrean?).

    About the elephants, how did you achieve this? (i support the idea!) And how does elephant vs charriot work if the charriot is some kind of elephant for the game? (if I understand the first point correctly)

  10. #10

    Default Re: These are NOT bugs (please don't report them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kull View Post
    10) My faction doesn't have a Family Button. By design. For historical reasons, the M2TW "teutonic system" is used by several EB2 factions (mostly barbarians): Aedui, Arverni, Arevaci, Boii, Lugia, Lusotannan, Pritanoi, Sweboz, and Koinon Hellenon. If you must have families, there are 19 other factions to choose from. Given the reaction to lack of families in R2TW, this will probably prove controversial - that's fine, discuss it elsewhere (NOT in this thread). And don't report it as a "bug".
    Why steppe factions, Romans and Carthaginians will not use the teutonic system?

  11. #11

    Default Re: These are NOT bugs (please don't report them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gryphon Templar View Post
    Why steppe factions, Romans and Carthaginians will not use the teutonic system?
    What could POSSIBLY be unclear in this statement:

    Given the reaction to lack of families in R2TW, this will probably prove controversial - that's fine, discuss it elsewhere (NOT in this thread).
    EBII Council

  12. #12

    Default Re: These are NOT bugs (please don't report them)

    Have I overlooked, sorry.

  13. #13

    Default Re: These are NOT bugs (please don't report them)

    Much more importantly... where are my lorica segmentata romans? Was this armour made up? How come nobody uses it? Did someone invent this armour as a myth or something.

  14. #14
    Campidoctor
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    Default Re: These are NOT bugs (please don't report them)

    If you don't want something discussed in a discussion forum thread, lock the thread. Otherwise, NO FAMILIES AAAHHHHHH WUUUTT LOLZZ

  15. #15

    Default Re: These are NOT bugs (please don't report them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Battlefield View Post
    However, it is easy to allow the faction to have a family tree through little modding.
    This is the key. Unlike RTW2, you will be able to mod back in Family Trees for each faction in EB2.

  16. #16

    Default Re: These are NOT bugs (please don't report them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kull View Post
    3) Elephant vs. Elephant is inconclusive. Yes, they can't kill each other. Just don't do it. And if you think armies composed entirely of elephants should be able to slaughter one another, I'd love to see the historical proof.
    Why is that happening? Elephants are obviously capable of killing each other in one-on-one fights.

    If your bug is similar to what happens in De Bello Mundi 1.0, they are able to kill each other during charges. In Broken Crescent 2.3.2, elephants are able to kill each other even during fighting animations. In Rage of Dark Gods 1.5.1 Steam Tanks are able to kill each other in melee even lacking fighting animations (and it looks quite funny watching they fighting each other).
    They are all setup as heavy cavalry.


  17. #17

    Default Re: These are NOT bugs (please don't report them)

    So you basically have no control over who of the generals will succeed the fallen one?

    One barbarian smells pretty much like the next.

  18. #18

    Default Re: These are NOT bugs (please don't report them)

    Hello !

    Sorry, just about cheats and exploit, just to troll a little but for those who don't know :
    You understand that cheats and exploits are frequently used for roleplay purpose, and half of the time to actually LOSE a battle, a settlement, or a general or anything ?
    Some people just like to creat histories, and to change situations, etc.
    In a lot of situations, I used cheats to remove some ctd (you know... rebellion one... ?) and other things.
    So I will probably use the glitch of invisible walls, just not to win like a false boss, but to create great situations and have great fun.
    EB is almost the only game/mod where I can do that, because it is a great playground with a lot of imagination, historical stuff and a lot of possible situations.

    Sorry, I thought I had to say it. If this message has not his place here, please remove it without remorse.


  19. #19

    Default Re: These are NOT bugs (please don't report them)

    This strikes me as something you might want to sticky, could get buried eventually.

  20. #20
    z3n's Avatar State of Mind
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    Default Re: These are NOT bugs (please don't report them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooz View Post
    If you don't want something discussed in a discussion forum thread, lock the thread. Otherwise, NO FAMILIES AAAHHHHHH WUUUTT LOLZZ
    Local moderators are mostly left to their own devices in regards to their forums so they can make decisions like this. He told us why in the opening post "Team members are encouraged to post others here. I'll assemble them in this opening post for handy reference (if nothing else, when some obtuse noob reports one of these, the rest of you can respond - probably quicker than a Team Member can):"
    The AI Workshop Creator
    Europa Barbaroum II AI/Game Mechanics Developer
    The Northern Crusades Lead Developer
    Classical Age Total War Retired Lead Developer
    Rome: Total Realism Animation Developer
    RTW Workshop Assistance MTW2 AI Tutorial & Assistance
    Broken Crescent Submod (M2TW)/IB VGR Submod (BI)/Animation (RTW/BI/ALX)/TATW PCP Submod (M2TW)/TATW DaC Submod (M2TW)/DeI Submod (TWR2)/SS6.4 Northern European UI Mod (M2TW)

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