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  1. #1

    Default Where's outrage over occupied Cyprus?

    LIMASSOL, Cyprus — Cyprus is a beautiful island. But it has never recovered from the Turkish invasion of 1974. Turkish troops still control nearly 40% of the island — the most fertile and formerly the richest portion.
    Some 200,000 Greek refugees never returned home after being expelled from their homes and farms in Northern Cyprus. The capital of Nicosia remains divided. A 112-mile demilitarized "green line" runs right through the city across the entire island.
    Thousands of settlers from Anatolia were shipped in by the Turkish government to occupy former Greek villages and to change Cypriot demography — in the same manner the occupying Ottoman Empire did in the 16th century. Not a single nation recognizes the legitimacy of the Turkish Cypriot state. In contrast, Greek Cyprus is a member of the European Union.
    Why, then, is the world not outraged at an occupied Cyprus the way it is at, say, Israel?
    Nicosia is certainly more divided than is Jerusalem. Thousands of Greek refugees lost their homes more recently, in 1974, than did the Palestinians in 1947. Turkey has far more troops in Northern Cyprus than Israel has in the West Bank. Greek Cypriots, unlike Palestinians, vastly outnumbered their adversaries. Indeed, a minority comprising about 25% of the island's population controls close to 40% of the landmass. Whereas Israel is a member of the U.N., Turkish Cyprus is an unrecognized outlaw nation.
    Any Greek Cypriot attempt to reunify the island would be crushed by the formidable Turkish army, in the brutal manner of the brief war of 1974. Turkish generals would most likely not phone Greek homeowners warning them to evacuate their homes ahead of incoming Turkish artillery shells.
    The island remains conquered not because the Greeks have given up, but because their resistance is futile against a NATO power of some 70 million people. Greeks know that Turkey worries little about what the world thinks of its occupation.
    Greeks in Cyprus and mainland Greece together number less than 13 million people. That is far less than the roughly 300 million Arabic speakers, many from homelands that export oil, who support the Palestinians.
    No European journalist fears that Greek terrorists will track him down should he write something critical of the Greek Cypriot cause. Greek Cypriots would not bully a journalist in their midst for broadcasting a critical report, the way Hamas surely would to any reporter in Gaza.
    In other words, there is not much practical advantage or interest in promoting the Greek Cypriot cause.
    Unlike Israel, Turkey is in NATO — and is becoming more Islamic and anti-Western under Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan. If it is easy for the United States to jawbone tiny Israel, it is geostrategically unwise to do so to Turkey over the island of Cyprus.
    Turkey is also less emblematic of the West than is Israel. In the racist habit of assuming low expectations for non-Westerners, European elites do not hold Turkey to the same standards that they do Israel.
    We see such hypocrisy when the West stays silent while Muslims butcher each other by the thousands in Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon, Libya and Syria. Only when a Westernized country like Israel inflicts far less injury to Muslims does the West become irate. The same paradox seems to hold true for victims. Apparently, Western Christian Greeks are not the romantic victims that Palestinian Muslims are.
    Israel is inordinately damned for what it supposedly does because its friends are few, its population is tiny, and its adversaries beyond Gaza numerous, dangerous and often powerful. And, of course, because it is Jewish.
    http://www.fresnobee.com/2014/08/16/...ml?sp=/99/274/

    On the 40rth anniversary of Turkey's second stage of its "Peace Operation" in Cyprus, we get some fine words on the matter from Victor Hanson. For years, the brutal invasion, ethnic cleansing and continued occupation of a sovereign nation has been presented as an "inter-communal issue" by the western press. Can we expect greater honesty in the future? Or is this just an reaction to Turkey's criticism of Israel? Even with Erdogan with his Islamic agenda holding sway over Turkey, the prospects of a just solution to Turkey's invasion seem rather slim; Turkey is just too important an ally for the west.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Where's outrage over occupied Cyprus?

    I'm really amazed that Turkey is in NATO. Never approved of them being part of the West.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Where's outrage over occupied Cyprus?

    Soviet containment, and bottlenecking the Black Sea Fleet.
    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

  4. #4
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Where's outrage over occupied Cyprus?

    That. Turkey is an invaluable member of NATO.

    And yes, Turks should withdraw from Cyprus. Everyone's twisting their braids about Russia occupying Crimea, part of Russia till 70 years ago that they took without kicking Ukranians out of.
    So that very important member of NATO should withdraw from Cyprus. It's 40 years already. They obviously go for the "nobody cares any more" that would settle in a few more years as living people that remember the kicking out of the Greek majority die of old age.


    NOTE: The article is a piece of crap. Israel should have faced sanctions by the UN and forced to lift the blocade of Gaza and retreat from illegally occupying lands beyond the 1967 agreement. They're as bad as Turkey.
    The article just glosses over the various atrocities Israel makes trying to give excuses when there are none by saying "Turks 40 years ago were worse!"
    Last edited by alhoon; August 17, 2014 at 08:00 AM.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Where's outrage over occupied Cyprus?

    Geopolitics is more important than a lot of things you want to see outrage over. Get used to the idea.
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  6. #6
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Where's outrage over occupied Cyprus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Geopolitics is more important than a lot of things you want to see outrage over. Get used to the idea.
    True.
    Also, money talks especially close to important elections. And the Pro-Israel lobby in USA is way more influential than the Turkish lobby or the pro-Palestinian lobby. So let's not pretend that the Israelis got the short end of the stick there. Or that USA actually cares deeply about what happened in Cyprus 40 years ago.

    Robin Williams is more important for donations \ votes than Cyprus in USA so even their politicians capitalize on that instead of Cyprus.
    If something bad happens in Cyprus then there will be some interest. When it's too late.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Where's outrage over occupied Cyprus?

    Plus the Turks aren't Jewish.
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Where's outrage over occupied Cyprus?

    Turkey can annex the occupied territory, grant citizenship to greek cypriots and still be dominantly turkish. Israel cannot.
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  9. #9
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Where's outrage over occupied Cyprus?

    So, Israel can retreat to the 1967 borders, relocate the illegal settlers within those borders and call for more Jews to move back to Israel in order to be predominantly Israeli.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
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    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Where's outrage over occupied Cyprus?

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    So, Israel can retreat to the 1967 borders, relocate the illegal settlers within those borders and call for more Jews to move back to Israel in order to be predominantly Israeli.
    Come on, we all know any Israeli politician does that is considered as suicide.
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    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Where's outrage over occupied Cyprus?

    Quote Originally Posted by hellheaven1987 View Post
    Come on, we all know any Israeli politician does that is considered as suicide.
    That's why sanctions from the UN are required for, along with stern warnings from the west that if they don't shape up, they will stop all weapon sales to Israel leaving implied that the Israelis may find themselves cornered with hundreds of millions of enemies and no help from the West to survive.

    The same as the West should have done with Turkey over Cyprus actually. Sanctions and strangling the flow of money towards Turkey till they retreat from NCyprus. Which would be trickier since Turkey could turn to the East when facing sanctions. Dealing with a powerful economy and large country like Turkey isn't cakewalk.
    With Israelis it would be cakewalk if: 1. Their enemies weren't savage barbarians that would brutally wipe them out 2. Their lobbies and banks weren't as powerful and rich.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShockBlast View Post

    I don`t think any fighting will be involved, EU will just strong arm Turkey into accepting the deal.
    It wouldn't happen because by then, the Greek survivors would have died from old age and their grandchildren wouldn't be as interested in reclaiming the homes of their grandparents. On the other hand, the "settlers" will be kids of people born in Cyprus, although their grandfathers were mainland settlers.
    I.e. by that time, the occupied part would have officially seceded and would have formed a new Turkish country recognized by the UN.
    Vae Victus.
    Last edited by alhoon; August 17, 2014 at 09:29 PM.
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  12. #12
    ShockBlast's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Where's outrage over occupied Cyprus?

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    It wouldn't happen because by then, the Greek survivors would have died from old age and their grandchildren wouldn't be as interested in reclaiming the homes of their grandparents. On the other hand, the "settlers" will be kids of people born in Cyprus, although their grandfathers were mainland settlers.
    I.e. by that time, the occupied part would have officially seceded and would have formed a new Turkish country recognized by the UN.
    Vae Victus.
    I can`t really put an exact date on EU becoming federal but we might actually sign the treaty this decade and it will come into force in mid or late 2020`s, or so I reckon.

    In around 15 years the Turks will be the majority on the isle of Cyprus ?!

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Where's outrage over occupied Cyprus?

    If and when this issue will be resolved, it will be to benefit the Great Powers, not the Cypriot people, so I don't really care either way. All small nations are merely pawns in the games of the Great Powers, so it's best to hitch your wagon to whichever Great Power benefits you the most.

  14. #14
    Odenat's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Where's outrage over occupied Cyprus?

    i'm confused, didn't Turks accepted U.N. agreement ? Oh wait, Greeks rejected all the agreement and U.N. peace deal ! And, E.U. still acepted them as a member, altough it's clearly stated that "no country with a border issue can not join" And, Altough E.U. promised to lift the embargo to Turkish side if they accept the agreement, they "forgot" it.

    The article, which is clearly originated at a South Cyprus newspaper, "forgot" to mention how many Turkish civilian are slaughtered between 1950 and 1974. Not only this, Greeks even murdered British peacekeeping soldiers . Cypriot Greeks slaughtered British civilians, even women and children. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8321765.stm

    We must accept that Turkish peace operation is badly conducted and failed in resolving the conflict. But at least, Turkish and British civilians today are not afraid of being slaughtered at Cyprus.

    And one last thing ; The Greek newspaper Eleftherotipia published an interview with Nicos Sampson on Feb. 26, 1981 in which he said, "Had Turkey not intervened I would not only have proclaimed ENOSIS, I would have annihilated the Turks in Cyprus." Here's the proof of genocide attempt from the Greek President of Cyprus !

  15. #15

    Default Re: Where's outrage over occupied Cyprus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Odenat View Post
    i'm confused, didn't Turks accepted U.N. agreement ? Oh wait, Greeks rejected all the agreement and U.N. peace deal !
    So a peace proposal, 30+ years after the invasion, washes away all responsibility for the invasion and its immediate effects?

    I think not. Also, on the matter of the Annan plan, there is this informed opinion:
    More specifically, important aspects of the Annan plan were inconsistent with much of what United Nations organs had hitherto discussed and elaborated over the years concerning the Turkish invasion of Cyprus. The Annan plan was inconsistent with the general condemnation of aggression, military occupation, demographic manipulation policies and the denial of the right of return of refugees. It was inconsistent with numerous resolutions of the United Nations Commission on Human Rights since 1975, inconsistent with the initial report, progress report and final report of the Sub-Commission on Promotion and Protection of Human Rights on “The Human Rights Dimensions of Population Transfers and the Implantation of Settlers” (Al Khasawneh (final) Report, UN Doc. E/CN.4/Sub.2/1997/23), and with the principles laid down by the Secretary General’s Special Representative on Internally Displaced Persons (Francis Deng, Guiding Principles on Internal Displacement, UN Doc. E/CN.4/1998/53/Add.2).[4]



    Although the Annan Plan did not go as far as specifically to legalize the Turkish aggression on Cyprus of July 1974, it did throw a mantel of legitimacy over it by virtue of its acceptance of many of the faits accomplis that followed the Turkish invasion and occupation of Northern Cyprus, expulsion of part of the Cypriot population, confiscation of their private property, settlement of the occupied Cypriot territory by over 100,000 Turkish colonizers from Anatolia, etc.



    Can such grave violations of international law be retroactively legalized ? International law experts hold the view that such violations cannot be legalized. Alas, the situation of violation of international law norms by States -- in total impunity -- is not rare. However, this does not mean that international law has ceased to exist or that these particular norms have ceased to be applicable. It only means that the enforcement mechanism remains imperfect.
    http://alfreddezayas.com/Articles/cyprussettlers.shtml
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred-Maurice_de_Zayas

    As for the rest of your post, it clearly must be the result of indoctrination, this spewing of wild, unsubstantiated accusations ("genocide!"), in order to justify turkey's war crimes.

  16. #16
    Treize's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Where's outrage over occupied Cyprus?

    Well... The Greeks rejected the proposal for unification.

    But then again they were in the right to do so. Why should a 25% minority recieve powers as if they are 50% of the population?

    The reality is that Cyprus is a mostly Greek island so it is only natural that political power should be with them. But then again why should politics be based on ethnicity anyway. The Cypriot state as it is now, even though Turks were deported, still recognises Turkish as an official language and I see no reason why this state could not govern the entire island in a way that is just towards the 25% Turkish population. A federal model is bull as it will only create more tensions (look at Bosnia or something) and create overrepresentation for Turks.

    Cyprus should be a bilingual unitary state I believe. What arguments are against it?

    And if the majority of Cyprus for some reason would want to become a part of Greece then this should be possible. Greece today seems to be a just country towards its Turkish population in Western-Thrace and the Dodecanese, so this can not be an argument against it.
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    Default Re: Where's outrage over occupied Cyprus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Treize View Post
    Well... The Greeks rejected the proposal for unification.

    But then again they were in the right to do so. Why should a 25% minority recieve powers as if they are 50% of the population?

    The reality is that Cyprus is a mostly Greek island so it is only natural that political power should be with them. But then again why should politics be based on ethnicity anyway. The Cypriot state as it is now, even though Turks were deported, still recognises Turkish as an official language and I see no reason why this state could not govern the entire island in a way that is just towards the 25% Turkish population. A federal model is bull as it will only create more tensions (look at Bosnia or something) and create overrepresentation for Turks.

    Cyprus should be a bilingual unitary state I believe. What arguments are against it?

    And if the majority of Cyprus for some reason would want to become a part of Greece then this should be possible. Greece today seems to be a just country towards its Turkish population in Western-Thrace and the Dodecanese, so this can not be an argument against it.
    A unitary state is what I'd like to see happen too, but considering our own identities are based on ethnicity and these are just reinforced by the outside who want to divide the whole world up based on ethnicity, I don't know if it could work. Creating a federal state with overrepresentation of an ethnic minority and with ethnic divisions and ethnic autonomous areas is just a plan for failure, which is of course why the Great Powers are supporting it, just like how Britain supported creating ethnic tensions as it was being kicked out of the island.

  18. #18
    Treize's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Where's outrage over occupied Cyprus?

    But the whole conflict started over the whole Enosis thing. Would the Greek-Cypriots still be interested in such a thing today? What do you know about the relationship between the two groups before the Enosis-question (so during British rule)?
    The reality ofcourse is that Greeks and Turks are quite similar people really, not need to turn differences into something bigger (but people tend to do that).
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    Default Re: Where's outrage over occupied Cyprus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Treize View Post
    But the whole conflict started over the whole Enosis thing. Would the Greek-Cypriots still be interested in such a thing today? What do you know about the relationship between the two groups before the Enosis-question (so during British rule)?
    The reality ofcourse is that Greeks and Turks are quite similar people really, not need to turn differences into something bigger (but people tend to do that).
    Greek Cypriots would almost certainly not be interested interested in Enosis, so that wouldn't be a problem today. From the few older Cypriots I've talked to, they all seem to say that Greeks and Turks got along fine during British rule, and that the ethnic tension began when the Greek Cypriots started fighting the British to kick them out and the British basically incited Turkish ethnic hatred, to prevent Enosis and to keep the island divided.

    The whole "Greek-Cypriot" and "Turkish-Cypriot" thing is just a giant misnomer to me, which has been created in order to create a further gulf between the two communities, since they are both ethnic Cypriots, not ethnic Greeks or Turks.

  20. #20
    Treize's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Where's outrage over occupied Cyprus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stavroforos View Post
    Greek Cypriots would almost certainly not be interested interested in Enosis, so that wouldn't be a problem today. From the few older Cypriots I've talked to, they all seem to say that Greeks and Turks got along fine during British rule, and that the ethnic tension began when the Greek Cypriots started fighting the British to kick them out and the British basically incited Turkish ethnic hatred, to prevent Enosis and to keep the island divided.

    The whole "Greek-Cypriot" and "Turkish-Cypriot" thing is just a giant misnomer to me, which has been created in order to create a further gulf between the two communities, since they are both ethnic Cypriots, not ethnic Greeks or Turks.
    Well exactly. Today the only one benefiting from this is Turkey...
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