Comparing the two slower battle sub mods

[loukylouk]

Hey everyone. I was just curious, has anyone tried playing a few battles with the sub mod Ancient Battle Realism by bubba777 and then a few battles with Mesthione's sub mod Slower battle? I was just hoping for some Pros and Cons concerning both battles mods from users with experience from both. Also I am not trying to make a "Who's sub mod is better" thread, everyone has their own opinions, I'm just looking for yours...


Thanks everyone.

[Butan]

Interested to know too, never tried any slower mod yet since I feel DeI is as slow as it can get, but would welcome some new possible experiences.

[m_1512]

Moved to the sub-mod section. Here, you can get more detailed information about them.

[McCarronXLD]

ABR is the slower of the two and is less about killing and more about routing. It is very likely that a battle without decisive action can last a hour (longer if you don't play with a time limit). The kill rates are very low. A unit having 50 kills at the end of a battle is very well done. ABR makes more changes than battle stats as well. Reinforcement ranges are increased as are movement ranges in attempt to simulate campaigns rather than skirmishes (which is what regular Total War battles simulate, really. Too small.) The replenishment rates are also low. Overall it is an extremely immersive mod and I recommend everyone who is a fan of slow strategy to give it a try.

That said I am not a fan of the in battle movement speeds. The walking speeds for infantry and cavalry are perfect, but the charges are way too slow, to the point of being cringe worthy. I am not sure if it is possible to make charges faster. The kill rates I am not sure yet if they are a pro or con. On one side it allows for much longer battles and for every unit to be effective. You can rely on your cheap units for certain roles. On the other hand the extremely low kill rates means it is unlikely you will ever get to watch killing animations. I ended up trying the second mod you mentioned after missing the killing too much. Also, you will probably never see ranged units get kills. I have only ever had my javelin men score kills while flanking and it wasn't very much: certainly not enough to warrant taking in place of a melee unit whose usefulness is not limited by ammo.

Now onto the slower battle mod. With this mod you still have a kill rate that provides consistent results but is much slower killing than DeI. If you are looking for a very similar experience to DeI but just wish the battle lasted longer than this is the mod for you. Personally I've ended up missing the unique changes of ABR.

[loukylouk]

Thanks a lot McCarronXLD, that was really helpful.

[McCarronXLD]

No problem! Let me know if you'd like to know specific things.

[Butan]

I would like to have details on two things:

- you say that in the ABR mod the ranged do near to no kills: they have only a "under fire" debuff role then? That could be interesting. Do they still deal enough damage to have kills if they happen to aim wounded units? Certainly they do more than 1 damage on unarmored units, for example?

- on the slower mod, could you be more precise when you say "it provides constant result but is slower than DeI": you mean its not as slow as ABR, but still slower than DeI, and we will have much more casualties on average per battle than with ABR? Also, you mentionned it but I wanted to be sure, in this mod there is 0 other changes to the game features than slower kill rates?

[eferos93]

I confirm all what McCarron has wrote, and i have to say that in Ancient Battle Realism mod there's some more feature that i want to mention:

-Bonus vs Large now is set to 0 for all units which i think is reasoable. Cavarly units were very effective if their charge was able to break an enemy infantry formation and not when they were fighting swords instead of spears: what i mean that now units with spears that don't have formations like shieldwall or phalanx form don't have bonus vs large.

-Pike phalanx works as it should be! Slow killrates and they are able to make route the enemy! In DeI u can just use a unit without formation combat or just by deactivating it, make it attack the pike phalanx from the front, and the melee unit will win the fight

[Butan]

I tested the mod a bit and I've also seen that weapon deadliness and weapon initiative is set to 0 to all? Is it normal?


Also, it seemed like it somehow affected the diplomatic ratings I had with the factions, does it touches the diplomacy too, if so, how?

[eferos93]

Yes, as initiative and deadlines are unbalanced is if set to 0, as diplomacy i don't know, casuse i use champloo's diplomacy improvment mod.

[McCarronXLD]

It has been awhile since I have used ABR but from what I remember I do think it makes some diplomacy changes which resulted in much more interesting AI that will work with you in believable ways.

Yes the Slower Battle mod has much higher kill rates than ABR. ABR kill rates should almost go by a different name as there is very little killing. The ranged units will never get kills, whether on their own or in support or on wounded units. At least, that is my experience. This is from custom battle testing. Results may vary during campaign when you get numerous variables determining the effectiveness of missile units. The original vision was that archers and slingers were more of a "debuffing" unit. When a unit was attacked by them the unit in question would get certain penalties such as a reduction in melee effectiveness (to simulate the unit having to protect themselves from the missiles) as well as movement penalties. Javelin men can get kills still because of their power, especially while flanking, but you'll usually only get 15 kills (if that) from unloading all of your ammo into the flank of a unit.

Something I am considering modding myself is giving ranged units in ABR infinite ammunition (or at least an outrageously high finite number) so that their non-killing role on the battlefield is not negated by the limitations of ammo. For more clarification on the role of ranged units in ABR it might be best to consult the current author, bubba.

[Mesthione]

The slower battle mod that I have continued to update doesn't change much in terms of the "feel" of DEI. It does not change movement speed, and mostly just modifies health points and various combat match percentages to make the combat feel more prolonged. I prefer it only because it doesn't change too much else and makes my battles more tactical. Haven't tried ABR yet, will have to!

[loukylouk]

Thanks a lot. I have download your mod and am playing with it now. Seems like a strong mod.