The Nature of War

[Hobbes]

Cyclops: The idea of push button warfare died in the Shahi Kot valley in 2002.

Can you elaborate on this? I know about the war in Afghanistan but I am not familiar with the operations there (in the valley), or their significance.

[Farnan]

Can you elaborate on this? I know about the war in Afghanistan but I am not familiar with the operations there (in the valley), or their significance.

The Shahi Kot Valley was the site of Operation Anaconda, the site of the first large scale battle between the Taliban and US (and later Canadian) conventional forces. It involved US Infantrymen engaging Taliban forces in close combat (that doesn't mean melee, it means is close rifle distances). It was a very brutal fight with US forces assaulting up hills held by veteran Taliban fighters.

The reason I call that the death of Push Button warfare is that it completely went against the whole concept that was presented. The concept that warfare was going to no longer be about the poor bloody infantryman, but technology. And the concept of a technological fight actually worked against US in some degree. After the fight there, both Iraq and Afghanistan have been fought by the poor bloody infantryman engaging his opponent in close range.

[Cyclops]

The Shahi Kot Valley was the site of Operation Anaconda, the site of the first large scale battle between the Taliban and US (and later Canadian) conventional forces. It involved US Infantrymen engaging Taliban forces in close combat (that doesn't mean melee, it means is close rifle distances). It was a very brutal fight with US forces assaulting up hills held by veteran Taliban fighters.

The reason I call that the death of Push Button warfare is that it completely went against the whole concept that was presented. The concept that warfare was going to no longer be about the poor bloody infantryman, but technology. And the concept of a technological fight actually worked against US in some degree. After the fight there, both Iraq and Afghanistan have been fought by the poor bloody infantryman engaging his opponent in close range.

Thanks for the insight. No dounbt there will be plenty of close actions in Afghanistan and future operations but I think the trend to detached warfare (ranging from the President looking over a SEAL's shoulder to a drone taking out a convoy) will contune.

To me the idea the CiC let alone a general can actually see over his soldier's shoulder is such a challenge to traditional concepts like chain of command and operational initiative. How does this affect operations? Can the President say "look under that rock to your left"?

[Farnan]

Thanks for the insight. No dounbt there will be plenty of close actions in Afghanistan and future operations but I think the trend to detached warfare (ranging from the President looking over a SEAL's shoulder to a drone taking out a convoy) will contune.

To me the idea the CiC let alone a general can actually see over his soldier's shoulder is such a challenge to traditional concepts like chain of command and operational initiative. How does this affect operations? Can the President say "look under that rock to your left"?

I got work, but I'll get with you on this more after.

But I suggest the book "Not a Good Day to Die" by Sean Naylor which deals with almost your exact question.