What other female units would you like in the game?

[Sebidee]

So, the new DLC adds female warriors to the game. I'm sure everyone who requested this is very happy but I've got mixed feelings about it. The barbarians certainly had female warriors but the Romans with Gladiatrics? really?

Anyway. The DLC also comes with tons of new models for skin, hair and armour this means that an endless amount of other woman warriors could be made. What kinds of women warriors do you think the game needs? I'm thinking Druidesses for the Iceni Screeching Women for the Suebi and having female warriors make up 1/5 of all Steppe units.

Thoughts?

[stevehoos]

For those interested in playing fantasy games by all means indulge yourself in the majesty! These will work swimmingly for my new Zena princess warrior mod!

[RGA]

I could hardly wait for a mod of naked fanatics with a woman head

[Darios]

Hum...would be nice to make 1/5 of certain steppe units be women as there was an unbroken culture of female soldiers/warrior burials from the Scythians to the Polovtsi. However, Radious did say that modding this into the game would be problematic because you can only give units male or female voices. Maybe there are ways to tackle this problem though.

[Sebidee]

Hum...would be nice to make 1/5 of certain steppe units be women as there was an unbroken culture of female soldiers/warrior burials from the Scythians to the Polovtsi. Radious did say that modding this into the game would be problematic because you can only give units male or female voices. Maybe there are ways to tackle this problem though.

Well I don't think it would be much of an issue if they kept male voices. 80% of the unit would still be male and they would drown out the female voices.

[Hetairos]

The barbarians did certainly not have female warriors. Even Boudica was more an inspirational leader or symbol of freedom rather than a general / warrior. e.g. like Jean-D'Arc. Not really a general, warrior but a symbol if not even a decorated myth.

The screeching women of the germanic tribes from the past, well... More like coming from a story of barricading the routing path of their men so they could not retreat or flee from the battlefield and fight to death for their home and families. No chance they have ever assisted their men in combat though as warriors.

So short answer, there is no single way to use women warriors in the game. Not even as generals. If we had the feature of walking through the cities than one could add male and female citizens walking in the city like in past games. There you could add women, but that feature is non existent here and those fantasy units have nothing to do on the battlefields.

[stevehoos]

The barbarians did certainly not have female warriors. Even Boudica was more an inspirational leader or symbol of freedom rather than a general / warrior. e.g. like Jean-D'Arc. Not really a general, warrior but a symbol if not even a decorated myth.

The screeching women of the germanic tribes from the past, well... More like coming from a story of barricading the routing path of their men so they could not retreat or flee from the battlefield and fight to death for their home and families. No chance they have ever assisted their men in combat though as warriors.

So short answer, there is no single way to use women warriors in the game. Not even as generals. If we had the feature of walking through the cities than one could add male and female citizens walking in the city like in past games. There you could add women, but that feature is non existent here and those fantasy units have nothing to do on the battlefields.

"A symbol if not even a decorated myth" Exactly! + rep

[Sebidee]

The barbarians did certainly not have female warriors. Even Boudica was more an inspirational leader or symbol of freedom rather than a general / warrior. e.g. like Jean-D'Arc. Not really a general, warrior but a symbol if not even a decorated myth.

The screeching women of the germanic tribes from the past, well... More like coming from a story of barricading the routing path of their men so they could not retreat or flee from the battlefield and fight to death for their home and families. No chance they have ever assisted their men in combat though as warriors.

So short answer, there is no single way to use women warriors in the game. Not even as generals. If we had the feature of walking through the cities than one could add male and female citizens walking in the city like in past games. There you could add women, but that feature is non existent here and those fantasy units have nothing to do on the battlefields.

The Scythians had lots of female warriors, plus several Queens. Several exist in Celtic legend which shows that they existed and were were respected. You cannot absolutely state that no female soldiers ever existed, just because CA made them doesn't make them automatically bad.

Here's a wikipedia entry on all the famous female warriors (literally a google search away)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...-Saxon_England

Here's a mess of stuff on female Scythians

http://www.pinterest.com/arwendeluhtiene/the-amazons-female-warriors-among-the-scythianssar/

[Orkfaeller]

The barbarians did certainly not have female warriors. Even Boudica was more an inspirational leader or symbol of freedom rather than a general / warrior. e.g. like Jean-D'Arc. Not really a general, warrior but a symbol if not even a decorated myth.

The screeching women of the germanic tribes from the past, well... More like coming from a story of barricading the routing path of their men so they could not retreat or flee from the battlefield and fight to death for their home and families. No chance they have ever assisted their men in combat though as warriors.

So short answer, there is no single way to use women warriors in the game. Not even as generals. If we had the feature of walking through the cities than one could add male and female citizens walking in the city like in past games. There you could add women, but that feature is non existent here and those fantasy units have nothing to do on the battlefields.

And what does anything of this have to do with this thread's topic?
OP wants to discuss what the new art assets could be used for by modders; if you dont want to add to the topic why post here?

[stevehoos]

The Scythians had lots of female warriors, plus several Queens. Several exist in Celtic myth which shows that they were respected. You cannot absolutely state that no female soldiers ever existed, just because CA made them doesn't make them automatically bad.

Here's a mess of stuff on female Scythians

http://www.pinterest.com/arwendeluht...-scythianssar/

Elizabeth the first was a queen, how was her combat skill? Not knocking you here, but if something exists in myth, how can you use that to quantify fact? That is kind of a dichotomy in itself. I can't say that sentient aliens don't exist, but does that mean they do? Western logic and argumentative reasoning is presupposed in the opposite order in which you present the debate.

[Josh Knight]

The barbarians did certainly not have female warriors. Even Boudica was more an inspirational leader or symbol of freedom rather than a general / warrior. e.g. like Jean-D'Arc. Not really a general, warrior but a symbol if not even a decorated myth.

The screeching women of the germanic tribes from the past, well... More like coming from a story of barricading the routing path of their men so they could not retreat or flee from the battlefield and fight to death for their home and families. No chance they have ever assisted their men in combat though as warriors.

So short answer, there is no single way to use women warriors in the game. Not even as generals. If we had the feature of walking through the cities than one could add male and female citizens walking in the city like in past games. There you could add women, but that feature is non existent here and those fantasy units have nothing to do on the battlefields.

There are plenty of historical sources that describe women fighting in the ancient world. Are they true? I don't know. But they're there.

Here's a page with some:
http://www.lothene.org/women/womenrom.html

[Chevalier IX]

As there are most certainly quite reputable primary as well as contemporary sources that vouch for the presence of the female fighter side by side with their men folk on the battle field across varying peoples and cultures,with very little to say otherwise save for inherent misogyny and the refusal to accept the ability of a feminine figure to participate in warfare,especially considering the harsher age of which we are dealing in this mod which would of course provide much hardier women folk than what most of you are likely imagining,I am all for the expanded inclusion of female combatants,as honestly,seeing as the DLC itself is wholly optional,there is no reason NOT to further flesh out this option for interested parties,myself included.

Therefore I think it would be interesting to add more mounted variants and roles,skirmishers of course,as there are numerous sources that speak of the presence of wives,young girls and daughters serving in this role from Britannia to Africa and beyond,as well as Shield Maidens and Woad Women,as these have in fact been well documented and continue to be to this day(check out some of the more recent bleeding edge resources for further details concerning the current research and excavations) with several scholars invariably attesting to the presence of women,though not in force,in a combat role on the archaic battle fields. With all of the sources currently out there,be they primary sources that have been disregarded out of hand as myth simply because they represent a woman in the role of a warrior,to current writings and discoveries pointing toward the reality of the "Virago" coming from the pens of the best in the field,why then is there always such certainty around here that there is NO WAY any such thing could have ever possibly occurred??? Is this based on verifiable and indisputable fact,or just a misogynistic cocksure approach by men that cant fathom a woman taking them on? I ask this not to be inflammatory,simply out of academic curiosity,as I fail to see any manner of citation coming from those whom are most vehemently opposed ,and the references made,of course always going back to Jean D'arc and Boudicca, do not in any way shape or form constitute or speak for the experiences found in other civilizations and epochs that say others.

The Sarmatians,The Germans,The Cimbri,The Dahomey,The Japanese,The Greeks,The Chinese etc all speak of women of antiquity engaged in combat roles,if for no other reason the necessity foisted upon them by a far harsher world than we can imagine.How can we so quickly dismiss their assertions and references out of hand simply because a since imposed patriarchy says it isnt possible?

Edit: to the point above,we must take care when we disregard supposed "myth" when considering our sources for history,as what is fact and what is fiction when it comes to ancient writing,word craft and literature is completely subjective and based upon the assumptions of the supposed age of "enlightenment" as to what is real and what is pure "fantasy" .This is the reason that "Bibles" are found under religion and the Norse Eddas are found under "Mythology" .All assumption

[Sebidee]

Elizabeth the first was a queen, how was her combat skill? Not knocking you here, but if something exists in myth, how can you use that to quantify fact? That is kind of a dichotomy in itself. I can't say that sentient aliens don't exist, but does that mean they do?

I should have said warrior Queens. The Scythian Queens would have had to have martial skills to have the right to rule and would have lead armies from the front. Not surprising since there were so many rank and file woman warriors. (Also were Amazons come from).

Edit: I think the reason why people dismiss woman warriors at this time is because all the histories were written by the Greeks, Romans and Easterners. They certainly did not have (many) women warriors but that doesn't mean they can be dismissed by saying 'there is no use for them in the game,' especially in the face of so much real evidence that they should be used.

[crucify_ego]

As missile fodder. Actually I wont use them

[Chevalier IX]

On that note,I would also appreciate seeing the assets used to create some highly stylized "rare" units inspired by some of the heroic women/Goddesses of the classical and even Homeric age,such as perhaps some elaborate hoplite units, uniquely greco-amazonian ones,and proper Shield maidens and chariot/bow units for the Germanic/Celt factions,and perhaps the return of Indian Virgin archers and Elephant riding units as were presented in the Alexander expansion for Baktria,as well s some spear and infantry units for the same,using some of the animal skin and fur assets from the Kushite Shield Women

[Hetairos]

Well you must look at it from the standpoint of a myth / freedom symbol and from a standpoint of how plausible female warriors would be.

Yes, we have seen relicts of old Scythian women armors. We have heard about the famous Boudicca. There were the famous stories of brave Germanic women killing their own men and barricading their routing path. There are thousands of sources and pages about those interesting Amazon stories and more.

At the end you must ignore all this and think of how much has been most probably invented, decorated and told as interesting stories over the time. Or how much was put up as propaganda and putting women as a symbol of freedom and the fight for the homeland. How many of those Scythian women did actually really fight, how many of those Scythian armors were simply a sign of prestige and rank. A few women fighting on horseback vs. some other women fighting on horseback in some kind of regional skirmishes from time to time. Well plausible. Really going one on one though until death? Entire units made up of female warriors actively fighting vs males? Women advancing conquering territory and besieging cities? Thats more total fantasy.

I am not ignorant of in-game chicks, as how female polygons are known out there. Women are just more appealing. No matter if in real life or as polygons. I know how important gamer chicks are in this industry as well, they sell games! They actually sell really a looot of copies!!! BUT Rome II is unfortunately and definitely not the platform for such an addition.

[Wolodimir]

Well you must look at it from the standpoint of a myth / freedom symbol and from a standpoint of how plausible female warriors would be.

Yes, we have seen relicts of old Scythian women armors. We have heard about the famous Boudicca. There were the famous stories of brave Germanic women killing their own men and barricading their routing path. There are thousands of sources and pages about those interesting Amazon stories and more.

At the end you must ignore all this and think of how much has been most probably invented, decorated and told as interesting stories over the time. Or how much was put up as propaganda and putting women as a symbol of freedom and the fight for the homeland. How many of those Scythian women did actually really fight, how many of those Scythian armors were simply a sign of prestige and rank. A few women fighting on horseback vs. some other women fighting on horseback in some kind of regional skirmishes from time to time. Well plausible. Really going one on one though until death? Entire units made up of female warriors actively fighting vs males? Women advancing conquering territory and besieging cities? Thats more total fantasy.

I am not ignorant of in-game chicks, as how female polygons are known out there. Women are just more appealing. No matter if in real life or as polygons. I know how important gamer chicks are in this industry as well, they sell games! They actually sell really a looot of copies!!! BUT Rome II is unfortunately and definitely not the platform for such an addition.

well said.Ancient warfare was absolutely dominated by men.There were female warriors but most of them were used as skirmishers but they never played an important role in any army even among nomads.Greeks exaggerated many things about scythians and most of their writings about scythians are full of misconceptions,racism and myths. Scythians were nomads and women were trained to defend themself because they lived in a hostile environment but they were never were very numerous or important in any "professional" steppe army.

[Sebidee]

Well you must look at it from the standpoint of a myth / freedom symbol and from a standpoint of how plausible female warriors would be.

Yes, we have seen relicts of old Scythian women armors. We have heard about the famous Boudicca. There were the famous stories of brave Germanic women killing their own men and barricading their routing path. There are thousands of sources and pages about those interesting Amazon stories and more.

At the end you must ignore all this and think of how much has been most probably invented, decorated and told as interesting stories over the time. Or how much was put up as propaganda and putting women as a symbol of freedom and the fight for the homeland. How many of those Scythian women did actually really fight, how many of those Scythian armors were simply a sign of prestige and rank. A few women fighting on horseback vs. some other women fighting on horseback in some kind of regional skirmishes from time to time. Well plausible. Really going one on one though until death? Entire units made up of female warriors actively fighting vs males? Women advancing conquering territory and besieging cities? Thats more total fantasy.

I am not ignorant of in-game chicks, as how female polygons are known out there. Women are just more appealing. No matter if in real life or as polygons. I know how important gamer chicks are in this industry as well, they sell games! They actually sell really a looot of copies!!! BUT Rome II is unfortunately and definitely not the platform for such an addition.

Just because you don't agree with something doesn't mean that all of it's evidence is invented for propaganda. Scythians DID have women warriors, not as many as male warriors but they WERE there. Click on a couple of those links. There's about as much evidence in them as there is for any other unit in the game.

No one is suggesting that we replace every male unit or have them as 50/50. Just represent them as they were, very rare.

At the end of the day this is about modding possibilities too so it's not fair to derail it.

[Sebidee]

well said.Ancient warfare was absolutely dominated by men.There were female warriors but most of them were used as skirmishers but they never played an important role in any army even among nomads.Greeks exaggerated many things about scythians and most of their writings about scythians are full of misconceptions,racism and myths. Scythians were nomads and women were trained to defend themself because they lived in a hostile environment but they were never were very numerous or important in any "professional" steppe army.

Is what you said about Scythian women based on facts or pure speculation?

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

Hey Sebidee I throw you a hint:
-Sirens
-Naval unit

I really love this new update, so much more toy to play with