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  1. #1
    Leeham991's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Defensive Campaign AI?

    I got myself this mod, and the submods to increase construction times, research times, etc, and the mod which attempts to prevent Romans from being utterly useless when armed with a Gladius, however I have a few problems.

    Mainly what I want to do is lay back, take my time in building, and go on well planned campaigns and allow myself to play slowly through the long build times and research times. However the AI isn't content to do the same. In the first 10 turns invariably at least 5 factions will be destroyed, and by 50 turns the map around Italy is generally split up into 4 giant empires. In one campaign I tried by turn 45 Syracuse owned every single settlement in Iberia, North Africa and Greece. In another all of the northern Barbarians formed into one giant supergroup. I really want the AI to set themselves up, defend themselves, and not go on these ridiculous empire building rampages. I'm not sure how many people really want to sit back and play a calculated campaign, but I think even if I were to blitz my way through a campaign, which I recently tried, pretty soon I'd be doomed to fighting a handful of giant empires which form in odd places.

    Another problem is population growth. You can pretty much max out the buildings in every settlement right away because the population grows at extreme levels. It clashes with the 4 turns thing for sure to have it growing so fast. Maybe the requirements for opening up another building slot should be raised too.

    Last real problem is battle survivability, especially for Romans armed with the gladius. It is pretty much not there. A unit of highly experienced, expensively equipped Roman legionaries can get wiped out by green barbarians with less than half of the attack and defense stats. The Longer Battles sub mod improves it a little by boosting deadliness and initiative, but it still leaves Roman troops massively underpowered even by their own stats. Too I think that survivability for front line troops is far too low anyway, especially for Romans also. The vast majority of people should escape the battlefield unless chased down in a rout. When it comes to Romans though one of the things that made them so scary and effective was their ability to kill people in the toe to toe and not just pick people out for 1 v 1 fights or pin them in place for other troops to kill.
    I'm not sure if it is even doable though since the Rome 2 engine is so ridiculous. I almost cried first time I charged a block of infantry into the back of the enemy only to watch them wait to turn round so engage in duels. I know some mods have tried to address this insane 1v1 animation reliance, but I'm not sure if they have.


    Well, rambling over; basics is I want AI who can defend their lands properly from invasions, and who find more profit in sacking a rival city than taking it. I want drastically lower population growth. And I want much better survivability for troops who are not being attacked in the back or routed.

    Might not be for everyone though, so maybe campaign options for people who don't like to blitz through and create a 10 minute empire like Alexander.

    Maybe there are submods for this all that I have missed though and I should feel silly.
    I like pie.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Defensive Campaign AI?

    Much of this will be adressed in v1.0, as far as I hear. In the meantime, you might want to head over to the submods section for the limited recruitment and public order nightmare submods.

    The first mod reduces the AI recruitment capability to the number of regions they have +1 extra recruitment slot for the capital; i.e. Syracuse (as well as any other one region faction) will only be able to recruit a maximum of 2 units per turn, instead of those 3 or 4 they can in vanilla. This greatly reduces the AI troop output, which in turn effectively limits how fast the AI can expand, as garrisons stay the same. http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...cruitment-BETA

    The second mod severely increases the PO penalty you get for taking a new region to such a degree, that the AI will be forced to stay in that region for an extended period of time in order to quell the inevitable rebellions - the same goes for the player, of course. However, I find the regular settings for this mod a bit too extreme, but you can mod them to your own liking with the pack file manager http://sourceforge.net/projects/pack...atest/download
    EDIT: forgot the link to the submod: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...rder-Nightmare

    As for the technical battle mechanics problems you speak of, I don't think any modder can do anything about that, since it appears to be hardcoded. I have no idea if CA is aware of the problem, but I certainly hope it will be fixed, as I entirely agree with your points in that regard.
    Last edited by Roskilde grenadier; August 11, 2014 at 03:39 PM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Defensive Campaign AI?

    Haha, I have the exact same feeling when I'm playing.
    Good to know that I'm not alone

  4. #4

    Default Re: Defensive Campaign AI?

    In my actual campaign, I feel like the buffed garrisons really slow down crazy expansions: much of what was turn 1, is still there at turn 100, with some modifications (and exceptionnal exceptions here and there).
    Some conquered nations even rise again in some situations, but I think its way too rare.

    Anyway even if my own experience is a bit slower, I think like you that there is too many mechanisms in place which all goes toward world spanning empires whatever we do. There should be stronger chances that the AI controlled settlements rebels so that old factions start again. Some rebellions arent even faction rebellion but just random rebels which can do no diplomacy at all (which would be nice, if there wasnt that world domination problem) and do not survive.


    One thing I loved in Europa Universalis, was the fact that the bigger a nation, the easier its internal downfall, which made it almost impossible to form empire that lasted more than a few decades at best (especially if AI controlled xD).


    On the battle criticism, well, the stats are there for survivability, go back to vanilla to remember how it is completely ed up compared to here! I think its really fine with DeI... animations could be better you're right, and it would be great if the AI had increased intelligence, but both those are out of the modders hands I believe.

    TL;DR: me too I would like it to be a little slower, and that the end game doesnt look like a versus game between two empires
    Last edited by Butan; August 11, 2014 at 04:53 PM.

  5. #5
    Leeham991's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Defensive Campaign AI?

    Going to try those sub mods right now
    I like pie.

  6. #6
    Semisalis
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    Default Re: Defensive Campaign AI?

    Funny thing is: When Rome 2 released, people were complaining that the AI is too passive / defensive. Now they are complaining that they are too agressive. Comedy Club...

    But its true that the fighting animations should be more kill animations, alot i see is just blocking all day long
    Last edited by Alu10; August 12, 2014 at 08:41 AM.

  7. #7
    m_1512's Avatar Quomodo vales?
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    Default Re: Defensive Campaign AI?

    I really don't see the Roman problem playing as Rome. I am able to defeat a full stack army of Gallic factions with just 12 units. The Roman AI problem is perhaps that with more regions but same as one city factions, they are not able to field large armies as the AI cannot focus on building as well as fighting.


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