Help with a build

**PrPete** · October 25, 2006, 02:02 PM

Hi all

I'm looking to do my first build of a PC. My aim is to build a futureproofed machine that I will be able to upgrade for at least four years in order to keep up with new games. This is what I have come up with so far.

Proc Intel core 2 duo E6600 £210
Case Antec SLK3000B £35
PSU Antec SP-500PGB £60
GPU ATI X1900XT 256MB £165
Mobo ?????? £80???
RAM 1GB Corsair £90
HD WD SATA 250GB 16MB cache £50
Monitor ACER AL1916W 19" wide £142

Sound is already taken care of.

Now for the questions

1) I don't really know very much about motherboards so could you guys suggest any?
2) Will this work with Vista/DX10 when it arrives?
3) Is 1GB of RAM enough for now?
4) Could I cut the cost anywhere without overly cutting back on performance?
5) Is 500W enough?

Thanks in advance

Pete

p.s. My Current spec just in case your interested.

Intel pentium 4 2.26GHz
1GB Kingston Ram
Raedeon 9600 128MB

**Erik** · October 25, 2006, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by PrPete

1) I don't really know very much about motherboards so could you guys suggest any?

I recommend you buy one of the best mobo available.
Together with your RAM and case this is one component you probably won't replace in the next 4 years.

Toms has a good article about 975X mobo's here:
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/10/...or_core_2_duo/

The Asus P5W DH Deluxe sounds great to me, but it's a bit expensive.
The MSI 975X Platinum Power Up Edition is much cheaper and received the "editors choice award".

2) Will this work with Vista/DX10 when it arrives?

You will need a new graphics card for "full" DX10, but this card will be able to run Vista and every game that will come out in the next two years or more.

3) Is 1GB of RAM enough for now?

Yes, but you want to upgrade to 2 GB or even more within the next 4 years.

I recommend you buy one stick of 1GB, rather than 2x512MB, so you have more slots available for future expansions.
On the downside this means you won't be able to use dual channel mode until your buy a second GB, but single channel mode will be fast enough for the next two years anyways.

4) Could I cut the cost anywhere without overly cutting back on performance?

You could buy a cheaper CPU.
E6400 is great value and a superb overclocker (up to X6700 stock speeds).

Core 2 Duo prices are pretty steep now, but they will drop a lot in 1 year time when Intel switches to 45nm technology. They should also become faster by then and there will be quad cores.

5) Is 500W enough?

Yes, but quality is more important than Watts.

**Arakorn** · October 25, 2006, 03:49 PM

Are you kidding me? Core 2 Duo prices steep? They just went down alot when AMD dropped their prices!

And I'd also get 2GB of RAM. 1GB is enough for RAM (which you asked), but being futureproof it's better going 2GB :wink: Oh and I recall someone saying that it's better to get 2 identical sticks...

**Erik** · October 25, 2006, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by Arakorn-eir

Are you kidding me? Core 2 Duo prices steep? They just went down alot when AMD dropped their prices!

What I meant was: the price difference between E6600 and E6400 is pretty big.
And both processors are more than adequate for the next 1 or 2 years.

In two years time you can buy a E8000, or whatever they'll be called.

And I'd also get 2GB of RAM. 1GB is enough for RAM (which you asked), but being futureproof it's better going 2GB :wink:

being futureproof implies you can upgrade to keep your system up-to-date.
You don't have to buy everything today.

Again: prices are only going to drop.
So you can buy 1GB now, and another GB for half the price in one year time.

Oh and I recall someone saying that it's better to get 2 identical sticks...

Yes, that's why I think it's best to buy 1 stick of 1GB, not 2x512.
This way you'll get dual channel after the upgrade (in 1 years time or so), when you most need it.

Originally Posted by Shaun

AAnd come on, get teh 512mb X1900XT man! the extra 256mb of memory helps get more FPS when your in ultra high resolutions with the settings at max, you wont regret getting an X1900XT 512mb. Look:

You won't regret it until DX10 comes out.
On that day you wished you saved your money for a good DX10 card.

X1900XT is again good enough for the next two years.

**Shaun** · October 25, 2006, 05:08 PM

Proc Intel core 2 duo E6600 £210
Case Antec SLK3000B £35
PSU Antec SP-500PGB £60
GPU ATI X1900XT 256MB £165
Mobo ?????? £80???
RAM 1GB Corsair £90
HD WD SATA 250GB 16MB cache £50
Monitor ACER AL1916W 19" wide £142

Ah, and excelent build. For a mobo you might want the 975X Platinum Power uP edition, I got it and its superb, it has all the latest features at a good price. You might want to get 2 gigs of RAM however. And come on, get teh 512mb X1900XT man! the extra 256mb of memory helps get more FPS when your in ultra high resolutions with the settings at max, you wont regret getting an X1900XT 512mb. Look:
http://thermaltech.co.uk/shop/sapphi...20r-p-171.html
That is a Sapphire one for just over £200!
Or:
http://www.advancetec.co.uk/acatalog/Asus_ati_pcx.html (the second one down)

Its an Asus and is less than £200!

**Incinerate_IV** · October 25, 2006, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by Shaun

And come on, get teh 512mb X1900XT man! the extra 256mb of memory helps get more FPS when your in ultra high resolutions with the settings at max, you wont regret getting an X1900XT 512mb. Look:
http://thermaltech.co.uk/shop/sapphi...20r-p-171.html
That is a Sapphire one for just over £200!
Or:
http://www.advancetec.co.uk/acatalog/Asus_ati_pcx.html (the second one down)

Its an Asus and is less than £200!

The difference between the 512mb and the 256mb is not worth the extra cost.

And as Lee said, you'll be lucky if that computer lasts a year and still be able to play all games on max, technology moves too fast.

**Brian1980** · October 25, 2006, 06:05 PM

If your looking for a motherboard I would recommend the Gigabyte P965 DS3. Although it doesn't have Crossfire or SLI (I think there a waste of money anyway) it is a great overclocker and great vaule for money,

As for the SPU can I convince you not to get the E6600? The Allendale based COre 2 E6400 is possiable the best CPU Intel has ever made, even at stock speeds it more then matches the AMD 5000+, and it can easiler reach 2.8Ghz-3Ghz givng you X6800 speeds! And thats only on Air cooling no voltage adjustments! If I that doesn't change you mind check this out from Toms Hardware

Take a look at were the overclocked E6400 is. That is fantastic value for money!

For the PSU I would buy a 600 Watt unit simply because if you plan to upgrade to DirectX 10 you will need the extra power. The Seasonics are the best brand on the market if you want both power and a quiet life. The Seasonic S-12 600 Watt will suit you down to the ground.

I personally hate widescreen monitors, I just don't like the way the look but every man to his own I suppose.

Ram is expensive at the moment, 1Gb will suffice but once Ram drops again think about sticking an 1Gb extra stick in there. Be sure to buy 800Mhz DDR2 ram! Sometimes is rated as 6400 DDR2. If in doubt use the Cruical Memory advisor, I've used it before and it's the safe way to make sure you get the right Ram for your machine.

Since this is your first build I can tell you now, noise will be an issue. To help you overcome this you might want to invest some of the money you have saved on your CPU on some third party cooling gear.

For the CPU HSF I recommend the Arctic Freezer Pro 7 only £15 but gives some of the best cooling on the market and it's almost silent.

Video Card HSF Arctic Cooling ATI Silencer Accelero X2 . If you only get one third party cooling device get this one. Trust me the stock HSF on the X1900 is horrible, you will want this.

Hope this helps. Please post back and let us know how you got on.

Edit

I would also recommed you DON't buy the MSI 975X Platinum Power Up edition. Slow, poor preforamcne and shabby a BIOS.

You don’t want issues on your first build.

**Erik** · October 25, 2006, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by Brian1980

I would also recommed you DON't buy the MSI 975X Platinum Power Up edition. Slow, poor preforamcne and shabby a BIOS.

Strange, tomshardware.com thinks it's the best choice.
Where did you get the bad review?

Maybe there was a BIOS problem that is solved by now?

**Shaun** · October 25, 2006, 06:34 PM

Hmm, what part does a motherboard play in performance? I thought they were just to connect all the components together, and the more expensive meant the more features it had.

Originally Posted by Eric

You won't regret it until DX10 comes out.
On that day you wished you saved your money for a good DX10 card.

Hmm, not really. THe first DX10 cards will be very buggy, I would rather wait for a year for all the DX10 issues to be sorted out, and maybe then the 8900GTX will be out, I might get that.

**Erik** · October 25, 2006, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by Shaun

Hmm, what part does a motherboard play in performance? I thought they were just to connect all the components together

Yes, that's basically it.

And the faster the connections are, the better the potential performance.
As time goes by and you replace components like RAM, CPU and video cards with faster ones the difference becomes larger and larger.

So to be future proof you need a fast mobo.
Or you will end up replacing it in 2 years time.

and the more expensive meant the more features it had.

Yes, that's another thing that makes some mobo's more expensive.
But again to be future proof you want lots of different ports and room for expansions.

Of course you don't need some features like integrated graphics.
So a good quality card with only the features you need is best.

Hmm, not really. THe first DX10 cards will be very buggy, I would rather wait for a year for all the DX10 issues to be sorted out, and maybe then the 8900GTX will be out, I might get that.

So you agree on a 2 years time frame to switch to dx10?
I think 2 years is a bit short for a $400 card, but if you have money to burn......

**Lee1026** · October 25, 2006, 06:48 PM

I'm looking to do my first build of a PC. My aim is to build a futureproofed machine that I will be able to upgrade for at least four years in order to keep up with new games. This is what I have come up with so far.

I doubt that being future proof for the next four years is even possible. Let see, what was hardware like in 2002? 2.8 GHZ single core was the best that there was. For graphics cards, the best you can do was a Geforce 4. Ram speeds were on the order of 133 to 166 mhz.
This is not a computer that can run new games in 2006. Trying to run oblivion on a PC like this is probably painful.

**Erik** · October 25, 2006, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by Lee1026

I doubt that being future proof for the next four years is even possible. Let see, what was hardware like in 2002? 2.8 GHZ single core was the best that there was. For graphics cards, the best you can do was a Geforce 4. Ram speeds were on the order of 133 to 166 mhz.
This is not a computer that can run new games in 2006. Trying to run oblivion on a PC like this is probably painful.

Hey!
My computer is from 2001 and I've played Oblivion.
Got decent framerates too, except when a "gate to oblivion" got in sight. (there is something about those gates that make my framerates plunder)

I did upgrade my graphics card and CPU.
And I tripled the amount of RAM and I bought a second harddisk.
But it's still the same mobo (MSI KT-333 Ultra2).

btw: my joystick is from '95 or '96 and my TV capture card is from '98 or '99.
How's that for old school?

But in contrast I've gone trough 5 keyboards in the past 7 years.

**Lee1026** · October 25, 2006, 09:15 PM

I did upgrade my graphics card and CPU.
And I tripled the amount of RAM and I bought a second harddisk.
But it's still the same mobo (MSI KT-333 Ultra2).

Basically, you brought a new computer.

**PrPete** · October 26, 2006, 02:41 AM

Hi all

Thanks for all your replies. I'm going to give all the recommended components a look and then I’ll come back to you with a new spec.

I think I’ll probably drop down to the E6400 processor though as the price difference is quite large. Also, as I know very little about over clocking I'll probably steer clear of it for the time being but it's good to know the potential is there.

By future proofing I meant I want the ability to upgrade in order to keep up with new developments not necessarily have a computer built now that will work for four years.

Thanks for your help guys.

PrPete

**Freddie** · October 26, 2006, 03:37 AM

Originally Posted by PrPete

Hi all

Thanks for all your replies. I'm going to give all the recommended components a look and then I’ll come back to you with a new spec.

I think I’ll probably drop down to the E6400 processor though as the price difference is quite large. Also, as I know very little about over clocking I'll probably steer clear of it for the time being but it's good to know the potential is there.

By future proofing I meant I want the ability to upgrade in order to keep up with new developments not necessarily have a computer built now that will work for four years.

Thanks for your help guys.

PrPete

Brian1980 knows his stuff. Stear clear of the MSI Power Up edition, it's not a bad motherboard but there's plenty of other boards out there that will do a better job then the MSI

MSI 975X Review

Originally Posted by CustomPC

CONCLUSION

The MSI 975X Platinum is a good motherboard, with a good spread of overclocking options, a neatly structured design and comprehensive features. It also isn't too far above the £150 mark. All this would make the MSI a great buy, if it were the only high-end Intel motherboard in the world.

As it is, though, both the Asus and the Gigabyte beat it hands down for speed, and the Gigabyte also has superior on-board sound. If you just want CrossFire support, then ATi chipset-based boards such as the ECS PA1 MVP Extreme and Sapphire PURE CrossFire II are substantially cheaper.

Without the all-out performance of a top motherboard, or the economy of a mid-range model, sadly, the MSI finds itself without a distinctive niche.

Custom PC are a UK based magazine review all the top hardware. I buy it every month and trust there judgement.

The Gigabyte P965 DS3 is what you want, quiet operation, stability, lots of BIOS options, best overclocking motherboard for the Core 2 E6400.

Make sure you buy a Floppy drive as well. You will need it to load the SATA drivers to your Hard disk before you can install Windows.

Originally Posted by Incinerate_IV

The difference between the 512mb and the 256mb is not worth the extra cost.

And as Lee said, you'll be lucky if that computer lasts a year and still be able to play all games on max, technology moves too fast.

The 512MB come into there own when your playing at 1600x1200 it's then the cost-benefit favours having the 512MB version.

Your last point is vaild to. Don't expect to play games in two years time on max settings, it's just not going to hapen.

**Lee1026** · October 26, 2006, 11:43 AM

By future proofing I meant I want the ability to upgrade in order to keep up with new developments not necessarily have a computer built now that will work for four years.

Well, that depends entirely on what you are willing to upgrade. Mobos are not that expensive (compared to CPUs and the like).

**PrPete** · October 28, 2006, 01:49 PM

Hi all

So I'm now considering the below. I've dropped the processor down a level and added a higher capacity hard drive.

Proc Intel core 2 duo E6400 £155
Case Antec solo quiet £50
PSU Coolermaster 650W £60
GPU ATI X1900XT 256MB £165
Mobo MSI platinum power up £120 (by no means a final decision)
RAM 1GB Corsair £90
HD WD SATA 320GB 16MB cache £70
Monitor ACER AL1916W 19" wide £142

Sound is already taken care of as are keyboard and mouse.

New questions.

1) Is the graphics card too powerful for this system. ie, will it be being used to its fullest extent?
2) Can I use my old copy of XP or will I need a new license for a new computer?
3) Can I use OEM xp (£50) rather than the retail version (£150!)?

Also, I've been thinking about what I could do with my old PC. Top of the list at the moment is building a media centre PC with it. However I'm struggling with justifying this as it would surely be easier to just stick a tv card in the new computer. What advantages are there to having a separate media centre pc?

This is the spec of the old pc by the way.

Pentium 4 "Northwood" 2.26GHz. (Socket 478)
1Gig DDR PC2100 RAM
Sapphire Radeon 9600 pro 128MB.

What else would I need?

1)TV tuner?
2)Would that video card work with one?

Your thoughts and opinions would be appreciated.

Pete

**Arakorn** · October 28, 2006, 02:13 PM

Yes, in fact I think that your graphics card will become obsolete before your CPU will! (Especially taking into account that Vista and Direct X 10 comes out)
You should be able to, if not, delete your old Windows and reinstall it on your new computer (Not an expert in this area, sorry)
AFAIK, OEM's are for people that buy a new computer at the same time (or something, not an expert in this area, sorry :wink: )