China steals documents on Iron Dome stuff

[alhoon]

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-28583283

The gist: "The BBC has seen evidence that appears to confirm hackers stole several secret military documents from two government-owned Israeli companies that developed the Iron Dome missile defence system."

(The Iron Dome is the very successful anti-missile shield that Israel has, that is very effective in stopping short-range and med-range missiles).


With the Chinese being quite adept at making not-too-crappy cheaper versions of the "real thing", do you think China may sooner-than-expected start selling cheap copies of their own Iron Dome stuff, tackling potential customers of Israeli manufacturers that actually paid the huge cost for first development?

And another thing: China spied on Israel, obviously. To the point the stole stuff; important, expensive military stuff.
I admit I don't find that as irritating or even as interesting, as USA spying on Germany and Brazil, or Russia spying on the embassies there.
And I don't know why. Frankly, I couldn't care less about the act of espionage on the West by China but was angered and offended when USA did it.

[Nevins]

I admit I don't find that as irritating or even as interesting, as USA spying on Germany and Brazil, or Russia spying on the embassies there.
And I don't know why. Frankly, I couldn't care less about the act of espionage on the West by China but was angered and offended when USA did it.

Thats because of your bias

[Heathen Hammer]

Thats because of your bias

Or because China wasn't pretending to be allied to Europe. At least we know now that US is less of an ally for EU and more of a potential rival and competitor.

[Phier]

Or because China wasn't pretending to be allied to Europe. At least we know now that US is less of an ally for EU and more of a potential rival and competitor.

Its cute you think that members of the EU don't spy on the US

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/keith-...b_4184047.html

[Heathen Hammer]

Its cute you think that members of the EU don't spy on the US

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/keith-...b_4184047.html

If they were not caught means they were not spying.

[Nevins]

Or because China wasn't pretending to be allied to Europe. At least we know now that US is less of an ally for EU and more of a potential rival and competitor.

In which of the various alternate realities that you believe in are the US and EU potential rivals and competitors.

[Heathen Hammer]

In which of the various alternate realities that you believe in are the US and EU potential rivals and competitors.

In which of the various alternate realities that you believe in are they not?

[Nevins]

In which of the various alternate realities that you believe in are they not?

That was amazingly clever. Its probably the one in which the US and the EU have been working together fairly closely since its inception and I see no real reason for that to change any time soon. Are the US/EU companies going to compete for contracts for jobs and things like that? Of course, but so do companies in Maryland and Virginia and that doesn't make them "rivals" or whatever in the context of international relations

[Condottiere 40K]

More likely, the Israelis sold the blueprints to the Chinese.

[Gaidin]

More likely, the Israelis sold the blueprints to the Chinese.

Why the hell would Israel sell the Iron Dome of all damn things? They actually use that for their own damn security. Please tell me there's sarcasm tags you forgot.

[Flavius Julius Nepos Augustus]

What anoys you more on the campaign map: Spies of your allies infiltrating your cities or enemy spies lurking around?
I don't like allied spies: that means bad things

[hellheaven1987]

I don't even think anyone views pussy EU as a competitor.

[kentuckybandit]

I don't see a huge potential for the Chinese to develop and sell a potential system, only use it for themselves. China is a major power and like any major power it hopes to exert influence over its neighbors and region. Giving other countries the ability to shoot down missiles doesn't really fit in to that. Even selling such a system to "rogue states" doesn't hold much potential, a missile shield is a one time purchase unlike arms or ammunition and the price it could charge (or more realistically the amount any small state would be able to pay) would not outweigh the political risks. Or I could be totally off base.

[Roma_Victrix]

I don't see a huge potential for the Chinese to develop and sell a potential system, only use it for themselves. China is a major power and like any major power it hopes to exert influence over its neighbors and region. Giving other countries the ability to shoot down missiles doesn't really fit in to that. Even selling such a system to "rogue states" doesn't hold much potential, a missile shield is a one time purchase unlike arms or ammunition and the price it could charge (or more realistically the amount any small state would be able to pay) would not outweigh the political risks. Or I could be totally off base.

No, I think you're right. I think the authorities in Beijing are far more interested in using espionage and stealing this kind of stuff to bolster China's own security, not to sell stuff to rogue states (which probably couldn't afford the cost). To be honest, the Chinese shouldn't have much to be paranoid about: who is going to directly attack China, a nuclear power, on its own soil? They've also got one of the largest armies in the world. Still, I suppose in their calculation in wouldn't hurt to make sure security is top notch and on the cutting edge. The Iron Dome anti-missile system fits that category in spades.

[hellheaven1987]

who is going to directly attack China, a nuclear power, on its own soil?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[alhoon]

Thats because of your bias

Or because China wasn't pretending to be allied to Europe. At least we know now that US is less of an ally for EU and more of a potential rival and competitor.

Unfortunately, I think it's because I'm more biased than I think I was. Yes, betrayal of trust kiiinda got in there, but I always assumed USA would spy on everyone (like every EU country spies on everyone). It's not that there's a uniform EU BTW. The French are probably spying on the Germans, the Germans on the Spanish etc.

China is a major power and like any major power it hopes to exert influence over its neighbors and region. Giving other countries the ability to shoot down missiles doesn't really fit in to that.

Money does though.

And since Iron Dome can be overpowered by lots of bombs and could perhaps built in a way that the Chinese could use in case they needed to "intervene" in cities under a Chinese Iron Dome, it would be beneficial for them to be the ones selling it, for 1/10th of the cost. After all, if they don't install their version they leave the door open for others (Israel/USA) to do it.

Each Iron Dome launcher has 20 rockets. The North Koreans have 30,000 artillery pieces that can shoot 1 round a minute sustained (that is the heavier systems, not the light systems). It would be nearly impossible for them to buy enough Iron Dome systems to even make a substantial difference. Its good against a rebel group, not so much a conventional army.

That more or less.
It's useful for say Somalia, Libya, Mali, Israel, Afghanistan etc. Not so much against a proper army. IIRC the Iron Dome so far can't attack 2 missiles simultaneously.

[Yayattasa]

To be honest, the Chinese shouldn't have much to be paranoid about: who is going to directly attack China, a nuclear power, on its own soil?

Maybe all the separatists within Chinese territory?

[Lord of Nihilism]

I don't see a problem with this and if anything, the Chinese have earned more respect from me with this espionage move. The Chinese also have a very skilled, if not the best cyber warfare team at their disposal so I don't see any reason not to use such assets to their advantage.

[tarvu]

What's the problem. Isn't it beneficial to all the world the more countries have this technology as it makes missile attacks less effective?

"Worst case" scenario they give it to North Korea, and in response we give it to South Korea thus greatly defusing one of the biggest potential hot zones in the world. (that is assuming the United States can manufacture and sell the Iron Dome technology itself, which we should be able to considering we paid for it and if not surely we can spy on Israel half as well as they successfully spy on us in order to acquire it).

[Farnan]

China wouldn't give it to North Korea.

However, China has interests in Africa and the Middle East along with a restless Western region. There are places where it may see itself needing the Iron Dome.