Public Order System and constant rebellion

[godochaos]

Im playing Masaesylli using .95 and 14 on Normal, I have not taken any new territories.

By turn 20 i have faced 3 rebellions, I do not have my armies in cities, my armies are fortified most of the time in the countryside
I have not upgraded any buildings to levels that lower public order

under the current circumstances I see me doing very little in this playthrough except fighting rebels, it has no end in sight. even if i got dignitaries or built a temple Im still at -9 order, i dont forsee a temple or a dignitary magically fixing this.

My question is, is this intended behaviour? that I should have rebellions every 5-6 turns?
Is there something I'm misunderstanding about the new system?
Are the numidians just rebellion prone and this is intended specifically for them?

I had a lot of concerns about the new public order system, but have not posted because I wanted to wait and then try it out, i'm pretty frustrated with it at this point.

[Litharion]

You have to convert the region to your culture as soon as possible. This will help with public order problems a lot.

[PcolaTy]

As far as I know, which is jack squad with it at the moment, is that the rebellion is going on because of the presence of foreign culture. If you build a temple and upgrade it to level 3 and research some important techs for added culture conversion, than you shouldn't have much problem.

[godochaos]

this is my starting region, these are not conquered territories, if I build temples and then raise them to level 3 I would face a constant rotation of rebellion in the meantime. that would prevent my expansion as I await the buildings and the technology.

[Ano2]

Well as Rome I've suffered 3 rebellions so far and I like the way it makes constant expansion a pain. I've found that you really need to build temples asap or simply designate a small army to be your anti rebel army.

EDIT: Looks like the masaesylli culture is messed up it's eastern but tech is not, likely a mistake which is why you can't maintain public order godochaos.

[Dresden]

This is a problem as the Masaesyli because CA didn't make any temples for the african/arabian cultures. They simply gave them Eastern temples/tech/buildings but didn't think about the culture not being properly given by temples. I will work on some custom temples for them to address this issue.

Also, please continue to give feedback about the new public order system because it will need to be tweaked and worked on. I may end up giving a slight boost to the public order from difficulty level to compensate for the armies not being able to hold territory.

[krunsh]

Damn... I was really hoping to finally start a game as Masaesyli tonight, the overhaul finally seems to make them worthwhile. Hope you guys make an hotfix for 0.95 and we don't have to wait for 1.0 to play them.

In any case, I'll try something else, thank you so much for the work.

[Dresden]

I plan on releasing a hotfix tomorrow that will address various bugs and also the Masaesyli temples.

[krunsh]

I plan on releasing a hotfix tomorrow that will address various bugs and also the Masaesyli temples.

Amazing!

I started a game as Odrysian Kingdom to try out the new system and I realized that governors are quite far down the tech tree for this nation, making it rather hard to get any sort of positive public order. It made me wonder, can generals gain XP as ''governors' even though they are not sitting in a town? I recruited one and sat it in my only city and it gave it brought it from 0 to about -12/-16.

I had to send my army to raid neighbours in order to not use any more of the food/public order, which I thought was cool and realistic, now I'm trying to figure out a way to stabilize my territory. Any tips?

[godochaos]

Dresden thanks for the info, yes please look at the numidians, currently they are a having issues. I started another game as the Lugii to test public order system. After I moved my army out of the city everything seemed manageable. System seemed to work well.
Food system seems to work ok.
My overall concern is that the addition of the food system and the public order system combined make the game significantly harder for the player. Every time I muster troops. food hit, every time i move, food hit. Its realistic, I agree, but combined with the public order complications it seems to make the mod siginificantly harder. I'm inclined to want to have those features separate and optional from the main mod, but i'm trying to be patient and see how it works out after tweaking.

I had been playing the mod at Hard difficulty in the past and found it to be very challenging, i had lots of failures but still enjoyed the challenge. Now i feel compelled to go down to normal difficulty- maybe not such a bad thing

[Dresden]

I will admit that we like to add challenge to the player whenever possible.

[Lithose]

Well, I noticed you drastically increased the number of Governors you can have. So I suppose you were counting on them replacing army control? Might want to put that into a tip screen; because it makes researching the skill for them extremely important early game (I'd even go so far as to say the player should probably start with a governor, as well as an assassin.)

[BunnyPoopCereal]

Well, I noticed you drastically increased the number of Governors you can have. So I suppose you were counting on them replacing army control? Might want to put that into a tip screen; because it makes researching the skill for them extremely important early game (I'd even go so far as to say the player should probably start with a governor, as well as an assassin.)

What's the number now?

[Lithose]

What's the number now?

2, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 (Imperium levels 0-8)

The old scaling was.

1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4 (Again, 0-8)

So the curve is nearly 4 times greater toward the middle (And double at the start). I would take this to mean early, mid game it was the intent to use governors a lot more to offset changes (Which is a great idea, Pro-consul governerships were the historical means by which Rome exerted control). However, the problem is, it's 8 turns until you can crank out a gov; even if you ignore any military advances.

IMO; they might want to think about changing it so we start with Governors and can research spies, since starting Public Order in a shared territory is pretty brutal at the moment and those 8 turns leveling the Gov to get some Pub order bonuses and conversion is pretty big right now. Maybe even increasing those bonuses to be an active offset to the current PO problems might be an idea.

[Lithose]

And, btw, I know Dresden's plan is to add some PO to player difficulty to offset not being able to station an army. But ideally, I think it would be much better to add more PO to governors (Maybe even add a specific trait for PO in a freshly conquered province)--this way the need for other agents to take out governors (In enemy territory) is even more important, and the player is more active in managing PO and expansion (Rather than just getting a bonus). Again, just my opinion, but I really like the idea of govs.

[Dresden]

Yes Governors are more important now (Dignitaries) and you can have quite a few of them (depends on Imperium level). I will go through and see which factions need to have them moved up the tech tree.

If you want to use a General as a governor you still can (and gain xp), but you will almost necessarily have to take some of the public order skills to offset the negative.

In order to stabilize a region, converting it to your culture at a higher level is even more important now. I may have to balance things so that temples don't become required in bunches (I am hoping a province will only require 1 or 2). There are also the minor city Public Land lines that can help with this as well.

As far as the Masaesyli go, I am uploading a new version (0.95a) that will have proper temples for african/arabian factions and also fixes the starting culture in Mauretania.

[Dresden]

Yes I think increasing the public order on some of the governor skills is a good idea, and moving them closer up the tech tree for some factions that have them way too late. Either that, or unlocking them from the start (although that would make some of the techs useless and effects would have to be added to compensate).

[Lithose]

Sounds pretty cool. Would it be possible to alter the techs so they themselves grant bonuses to PO through the governors (Rather than unlocking them?). Not sure if that would be a good enough replacement, but might let you kill two birds with one stone .

[godochaos]

Lithose I like that idea, having governors take on more public order responsibility and their assasination by agents being a critical blow.
Regarding Odryssian kingdom, i quit a game in the past as them because they seemed to have constant public order trouble. this was prior to .95. I wonder if someone on the team can take a glance at them and see if something is amiss

[krunsh]

Lithose I like that idea, having governors take on more public order responsibility and their assasination by agents being a critical blow.
Regarding Odryssian kingdom, i quit a game in the past as them because they seemed to have constant public order trouble. this was prior to .95. I wonder if someone on the team can take a glance at them and see if something is amiss

Well, they start with a very bad mix of cultural influences that make people unhappy. This can be dealt with, but made a lot easier with .95