The AI Outsmarted Me (Images)

[BeastG33]

What a battle. For this custom, unscripted demo battle, I used Sinuhet's descr_model_battle.txt that pitted 20 units of English knights vs a French army relying heavily on their cavalry. I decided to make things interesting, and pulled the battle to the northernmost corner of the Agincourt map. There is a church, and quite a few settlements.

I had most of my men near the church and on the hill, but I pitched a few forward for some street fighting. I wanted to see what it was like. This is where the AI.. well, outplayed me.

Here was the set up before the battle. The red X's represent the English knights, the blue X in the city represents my own dismounted knights and the X on the flank represents a unit of cavalry.


Naturally, like in Rome, I expected the AI to move forward, engage my men in the intersection, and I would hit them on the flank during the melee.


To my amazement, the AI instead rolls out of the settlement. The one unit falls back, and turns east for my cavalry. The second, wheels around the opposite side and heads through the west street. Making a tactical error, I rush my dismounted knights into the east street in an attempts to get to the unit heading for my cavalry. I pull my horsemen back to where my main force waits by the church.



You don't have to be a genius to see what happened next.


The AI surrounded and routed my unit of knights in the eastern street. I couldn't believe it. The rest of their army moved around the settlement and through it, approaching my main force on the hill. The ensuing fight:



Now, clearly I made a huge error. But I wasn't expecting any type of resistance from the AI other than march into that intersection and get slaughtered. Yet they improvised. Did they recognize the threat on the flank and adapt accordingly or just get lucky? I don't know, but that simple street battle convinced me that the AI in M2TW is improved from Rome, at least a little bit. What do you guys think?

[DavidtheDuke]

Try it again. See if it's random like the blog once said. I don't know what kind of editor to use and/or how to implement these custom battles. What's the best thread to start?

[Froggie5]

What happened next (on the hill)?

[Angmar_nite]

You may want to try a custom battle with more varied units. The english infantry were of far better quality than your troops.

[God-Emperor of Mankind]

Yeah the AI is surprisingly good in the demo.
I didn't not expect them to be that.
They always try to flank you and are really really good at finding gaps so they can take out your ranged units.
If this is from a 2 month old beta I wonder what will be in store for us in the full game.

[Removed_user_012521]

If its that good CA would surely dumb it down for that new crowd they want.

[Mellons]

If its that good CA would surely dumb it down for that new crowd they want.

lol i was thinking the exact same thing when I read the post. Power to the minority!

[General Sun]

That's amazing! Now I know I want this game! Please post some more battle descriptions.

[BeastG33]

DtD, this one is definitley the best. http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=65989
Sinuhet also provides the battle I used in that thread.

On the hill, the fighting was brutal. It was actually close, imo. The English knights held out under intense pressure from my cavalry. Many of them fought to the death. I actually thought they had me when some late units (from the city) charged into my cavalry from the rear. Eventually, I won just be the sheer amount of cavalry pressing through their flanks, but it was a great fight. Best TW one I've had in a long time.

Shots:
Waiting


French Cav


Corpses



Victory

[Kalos]

Thumbnails dont work Beast

[BeastG33]

Thumbnails dont work Beast

Really? Try refreshing. Everything came up right for me.

Oh nvm. You mean when you click on them. Yea, I resized them. Those are the full images. I think I'll upload the big ones actually, hang on. Thumbnails up for the hill fight.

[Kalos]

Yay! thanks

[Bob Roberts]

Thanks for the battle report . I wonder whether there shall be an improvement in today’s demo.

[NoSiS]

agreed withg angmar BUT, the AI is actualy surprisingly good sometimes

one example, i was just testing mass culverins - i had 2 units of dismounted noble knights and 18 units of culverins, versus 20 units of sword and blucker man (2000+)

the first battle, they just rushed me - the culverins knocked out just over 1000 by the time they got there, but it still wasnt enough

the second battle, though, they marched right into the maximum range of the culverins and stopped, i was confused at first but than realised that most of the shots were missing, and the AI was infact trying to goad my culverins into wasting ammo

well, not wanting this to happen, and wondering if this was actualy the case - i ordered all of the culverins to cease fire, sure enough as soon as they all stopped the spanish began a huge charge, and in the time it took the culverins to load the next shot they got far too close

that time, the culverins only picked off 600 men before being overrun, i was quite impressed

[Censor]

Hopefully campaign AI is smart, otherwise battles'll still be blowovers because you have superior troops. These King Henry V units are armed to the teeth and virtually encased in armor. How the AI fares with a lesser army is going to be undecided until the "modding" of this demo is more complete.

[BeastG33]

Hopefully campaign AI is smart, otherwise battles'll still be blowovers because you have superior troops. These King Henry V units are armed to the teeth and virtually encased in armor. How the AI fares with a lesser army is going to be undecided until the "modding" of this demo is more complete.

I agree King Henry's men were superior in this battle, but it was the movement of the AI in the small settlement that impressed me the most. Any unit, except elite ones surrounded by peasents, won't come out well in the situation the AI put me in. (boxed into a street with no room for escape)

[Matty_P]

this proves nothing to me.

i'll just have to see for myself.

[BeastG33]

this proves nothing to me.

i'll just have to see for myself.

lol? The AI avoiding a potentially disastarous move, only to counter it with a tactical move of their own? Even if I hadn't made the mistake of sending my knights forward, they still recognized the threat and avoided it.

If you read other posts, anyone playing the nonscripted battles knows the AI is making better decisions.

[Burns]

Could you link me to a relevent thread. I'd love to see it for myself.

[Matty_P]

no, no, beast.

it's not that i don't believe you or whatever, but i perfer to experience the AI for myself rather than take the word of anyone else. it's just that i won't be hasty to concede this as fundamental proof that the Ai has imrpoved...