Bring back the onagers

**Ano2** · July 22, 2014, 11:12 AM

With the fantastic new siege AI I think we need onagers back in. Thoughts?

**BunnyPoopCereal** · July 22, 2014, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Ano2

With the fantastic new siege AI I think we need onagers back in. Thoughts?

Whats fantastic about the new AI?

Edit: Reading Patch feedback now http://forums.totalwar.com/showthrea...ch-14-Overview

Seems very promising.

**Ano2** · July 22, 2014, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by BunnyPoopCereal

Whats fantastic about the new AI?

Edit: Reading Patch feedback now http://forums.totalwar.com/showthrea...ch-14-Overview

Seems very promising.

Well let me just say that I just lost my first siege battle, attacking a walled settlement. The AI split it's forces fairly evenly, with a force defending the walls, one defending the square and a small detachment that harassed me on approach to the square. Despite having superior numbers I got held up at several points allowing the AI's towers to rain death upon my men. The reactiveness of the AI in the city was atually pretty astounding.

As for the historical accuracy argument...

that

. Being able to put holes in walls is just too awesome to give in to a potential historical inaccuracy.

**zombieflanders** · July 22, 2014, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Ano2

With the fantastic new siege AI I think we need onagers back in. Thoughts?

Nope, keep them out, except maybe for CiG. There isn't any definitive evidence of widespread use until towards the middle of the 1st century BCE, which for Rome would be G.J.Caesar and the end of the Republic.

**Matmannen** · July 22, 2014, 12:21 PM

Perhaps I wouldn't call it fantastic, but there are some massive improvments, and from what I have read the siege AI is doing great (no mre torches are being used they say on the forums):

http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Total_War_ROME_II:_Patch_14

Originally Posted by zombieflanders

Nope, keep them out, except maybe for CiG. There isn't any definitive evidence of widespread use until towards the middle of the 1st century BCE, which for Rome would be G.J.Caesar and the end of the Republic.

Onagers maybe didn't exist, but was there no tension based mechanical weapons during that time?

**zombieflanders** · July 22, 2014, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Matmannen

Onagers maybe didn't exist, but was there no tension based mechanical weapons during that time?

Yes: ballistae and their derivatives.

**Matmannen** · July 22, 2014, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by zombieflanders

Yes: ballistae and their derivatives.

I meant with an arm shooting the projectile... sorry for not being clear...

**Fozzie** · July 22, 2014, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Matmannen

I meant with an arm shooting the projectile... sorry for not being clear...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Too good to pass up. Sorry.

**Matmannen** · July 22, 2014, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by Fozzie

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Too good to pass up. Sorry.

I demand that DeI devs make bow and arrow artillery with giants...

**PcolaTy** · July 22, 2014, 12:38 PM

Yeah, there have been a few people in the official forums claiming that the Siege AI is not using torches anymore, and is reusing the ladders and other siege engines.

**PcolaTy** · July 22, 2014, 12:46 PM

Here is a thread describing this players first battle against the AI with patch 14.

http://forums.totalwar.com/showthrea...Siege-thoughts

**BunnyPoopCereal** · July 22, 2014, 02:44 PM

Great news, one of the comments "I got smoked earlier by Cimmeria playing as the Getae trying to defend Solokhia. AI reused ladders and disregarded the gate(no ram, but no torches either). reinforcing enemy army also used ladders.

They captured the walls, than my gate and even flooded in after that through the gate. in short: finally!!!"

**PcolaTy** · July 22, 2014, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by BunnyPoopCereal

Great news, one of the comments "I got smoked earlier by Cimmeria playing as the Getae trying to defend Solokhia. AI reused ladders and disregarded the gate(no ram, but no torches either). reinforcing enemy army also used ladders.

They captured the walls, than my gate and even flooded in after that through the gate. in short: finally!!!"

Reading through some of the new comments, and someone mentions that the AI is now "to preoccupied with breaking down every last segment of wall", lol. Good thing the patch is a beta, and some of the bugs should get situated out before the main patch launches.

**Don_Diego** · July 22, 2014, 08:52 PM

Good news too if it is true that the Roman AI is doing better... IMO I would like the onagars back but limited to Imperial reforms so a very late game bonus.

**Phil2** · July 23, 2014, 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by Don_Diego

IMO I would like the onagars back but limited to Imperial reforms so a very late game bonus.

Agreed!

**m_1512** · July 23, 2014, 02:38 AM

I think you forget that reforms in DeI trigger after given number of turns and in imperium level.

**Fozzie** · July 23, 2014, 03:27 AM

Originally Posted by m_1512

I think you forget that reforms in DeI trigger after given number of turns and in imperium level.

Is this still the case for AI controlled factions? Imperium requirements, I mean. I know in the reforms guide it mentions a slightly higher turn count requirement, but I didn't think the AI had to reach an imperium level.

And regardless, the point remains the same. Breaking down the number of years between the start of the game and ~100 B.C. at four turns per year comes to about 700 turns. And that would be for just the Marian reforms. The average player could conquer the world in that amount of time. I agree that the turn count/imperium level is a great system for establishing periods of reform, because it at the very least requires a certain size of empire before allowing certain units. I'm simply stating that introducing onagers in the imperial period wouldn't be the sole anachronism, and that I, personally, would be willing to overlook this one.