Winning siege assaults as Moors

[aaronishappy]

Ok guys, I am playing as the Moors, Late Era, Savage AI, H/H. It's turn 21 and the only settlement I've managed to capture is Seville. I am currently besieging Silves, Toledo and Salamanca and I have the power to take them. It's 3:1 at Toledo, 2:1 at Silves and Salamanca (to me obviously). In the struggle for Iberia as a whole, against the 3 Iberian kingdoms combined, Id say I have the slight lead. I have beaten the Portugese and Castilians in 2 seperate battles which really crippled a large part of their army, and my armies in the respective regions outnumber theirs. Ceasefire with Aragon, alliance with France.

When I fight them in an open field, it's no problem. My infantry do the tying up and I let loose with my Fari's, Grenadines and blobs of Arab cavalry usually backed by 2 Gen. bodyguards to give that extra punch when needed.

But the problem lies whenever I do a siege assault - the cavalry is obviously much less efficient and Moorish infantry is just too damn crap. Bedouin and Arab infantry just dont seem to cut it when up against Men-at-Arms and Spearmen Sergeants. Nubian Spearmen, Spear & Urban Militia is the same. They just cannot for the life of them storm a gate or some walls. About an hour ago, I manually chose to assault Silves (1 stack followed by another full stack of reinforcements vs 70% of a single Portugese stack). I had infantry with 2 battering rams, 1 siege tower and 3 ladders. Now each time one of my units got to the wall, or when they rammed down the gate, they IMMEDIATELY fleed. I'm talking about putting up a fight for roughly 10 seconds before fleeing straight away. I was bedazzled.

At Toledo, one of my spies opens the gates. For assaulting Toledo I chose a specifically infantry-heavy army. In Toledo, there is a Gen. bodyguard, Feudal knights on foot, men at arms and crossbow militia. That's it. Yet my massive mix of Nubian spearmen, Bedouin & Arab infantry and both types of militia got minced and lost. I mean, they nearly won, but no, they eventually lost. And this was 1000 vs 300.

I saved just before assaulting Silves/Toledo because I knew it was not going to go as well as I had hoped. I won Seville by maintaining the siege and forcing those inside to sally forth (because I knew it would've been a disaster otherwise)

Help? Am I doomed to forever maintain sieges and wait for them to sally out? This isn't very effective as it often gives them too much time to build up and counter attack.

[Rakoua]

Try using just enough horse archers and other cav to beat them and besiege them with just that. They'll sally and you can kill them outside.Siege assaults as factions with weak infantry always result in heavy casualties...

[aaronishappy]

Try using just enough horse archers and other cav to beat them and besiege them with just that. They'll sally and you can kill them outside.Siege assaults as factions with weak infantry always result in heavy casualties...

So you're saying I should have my main focus on horse archers and other cavalry, and get them to sally out to me each time I siege? Sounds like a lot of patience, but if that's what it takes I'm cool with it. Sieges are a lot of stress anyways


I defended Seville in a siege and it was brutal. 700 Moors, mainly light infantry vs 1100 Castilians, with a General and mounted feudal knights and some other men-at-arms and militia. They lost like 90% of their men, I had about 150 left. Came so close to losing too, it turned around very quickly.

Is it true as well the longer you play the Moors the harder it will get? Seeing as all the European factions develop sick heavy infantry and such, while I'm not really sure what the Moors have to offer later on bar camel gunners.

[Rakoua]

If you don't bring too much cav, the ai is going to think that it can beat you if they sally so they should attack as soon as you lay seige. Never played the Moors personally but this has worked for my current byzantine campaign.

[Silver Legionary]

This is a problem the Almoravids have always had trouble with.

It's not an issue in HURB (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?405904), but that sub-mod isn't quite for everyone.
Worth a try, though, no?

[Strengelicher]

There are several ways to deal with your problem.

1. You can lure them to sally out. To do this, the AI must regard your besieging army as inferior to the garrison. Obviously, this will probably not work if the ratio is 2:1 in your favour. Take only your strongest field units (preferably cavalry (missile and heavy)). The defenders will sally out during the first turn of the siege, as has been said above. Withdraw your men to lure them out further into the field. Then smash them with cavalry charges from all sides or whittle them down with missile units.

2. You can also lure them out by attacking an army of theirs stationed right next to a settlement. The garrison will sally out to help their comrades as long as the settlement is not besieged. Sometimes you can provoke a situation like the aforesaid like this: First, besiege a settlement. Second, attack a small enemy force nearby and beat them. They will try to withdraw into the settlement, but since it is besieged will stop right next to it. Third: Lift the siege and attack the adjacent army, the garrison will sally out to help. Please note that you need to completely destroy both armies in the field and kill any prisoners to prevent the survivors from fleeing back into the settlement after the battle.

[TWWolfe]

There are several ways to deal with your problem.

1. You can lure them to sally out. To do this, the AI must regard your besieging army as inferior to the garrison. Obviously, this will probably not work if the ratio is 2:1 in your favour. Take only your strongest field units (preferably cavalry (missile and heavy)). The defenders will sally out during the first turn of the siege, as has been said above. Withdraw your men to lure them out further into the field. Then smash them with cavalry charges from all sides or whittle them down with missile units.

2. You can also lure them out by attacking an army of theirs stationed right next to a settlement. The garrison will sally out to help their comrades as long as the settlement is not besieged. Sometimes you can provoke a situation like the aforesaid like this: First, besiege a settlement. Second, attack a small enemy force nearby and beat them. They will try to withdraw into the settlement, but since it is besieged will stop right next to it. Third: Lift the siege and attack the adjacent army, the garrison will sally out to help. Please note that you need to completely destroy both armies in the field and kill any prisoners to prevent the survivors from fleeing back into the settlement after the battle.

I actually learned about the second one from Skantarios's AAR, and its now my go to strategy for pretty much every faction i play as, since i really don't like the casualties you take in siege battles.

[aaronishappy]

This is a problem the Almoravids have always had trouble with.

It's not an issue in HURB (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?405904), but that sub-mod isn't quite for everyone.
Worth a try, though, no?

Damn! I wish I had known about this beforehand, especially since I mainly play Islamic factions. I'm having fun with my campaign but I'm getting a bit bored of the unit roster. It is only turn 33 at the moment, but still, I hope it starts to change up a little bit soon.

[bigdaddy1204]

Damn! I wish I had known about this beforehand, especially since I mainly play Islamic factions. I'm having fun with my campaign but I'm getting a bit bored of the unit roster. It is only turn 33 at the moment, but still, I hope it starts to change up a little bit soon.

Have you got access to all buildings? I find that the access to elite units for Byzantines and Islamic factions is very restrictive, and your problem seems to be that you don't have access to their best units yet. I modded the game to give my favourite factions access to the best units from the start of the campaign.

It's very easy to do it. There are two methods:

1). Start a new campaign with your desired faction. Select a settlement that will be your army's main base. Click to build whatever barracks or stable building you need. Then, hit the ' key to open the chat window, and type 'process_cq' and the name of the settlement. For example, 'process_cq Granada' and hit enter. The building will be instantly constructed. Keep doing this until you have the most elite level barracks and stables in the game.

To get the top level buildings, you'll need to upgrade the settlement size too, which you can do by typing 'add_population' and then the name of the settlement, followed by the number. For example, 'add_population Granada 5000'. Then upgrade the castle to 'fortress' and so on, until you have the elite buildings that allow you to train the best troops.

Obviously this will cost funds, so type 'add_money' and then the amount of money you want. For example, 'add_money 50000' will give you 50,000. You then buy all the advanced stables, barracks and so on, click save game, and save it as 'Moors start position'. Then use that as your starting position any time you want to campaign.


2). The other way is to go into the game files. Open Medieval II Total War. Open Stainless Steel/data/world map/campaign map/imperial campaign/early period. The file you are looking for is descr_strat.

Open the file, and you will see each faction listed, with the provinces it controls and what buildings it has. Scroll down to 'Moors', find 'Granada', and then change the buildings there so that it now has kings stables and army barracks. Save the file, and start a new campaign.

You can now play with Moors finest units!