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Thread: European right courts rules in favor of France's burqua ban

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    Mayer's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default European right courts rules in favor of France's burqua ban

    This almost went unnoticed by the tw community:


    Judges at the European court of human rights (ECHR) have upheld France's burqa ban, accepting Paris's argument that it encouraged citizens to "live together".
    The law, introduced in 2010, makes it illegal for anyone to cover their face in a public place. While it also covers balaclavas and hoods, the ban has been criticised as targeting Muslim women.

    The case was brought by an unnamed 24-year-old French citizen of Pakistani origin, who wears both the burqa, covering her entire head and body, and the niqab, leaving only her eyes uncovered.

    She was represented by solicitors from Birmingham in the UK, who claimed the outlawing of the full-face veil was contrary to six articles of the European convention. They argued it was "inhumane and degrading, against the right of respect for family and private life, freedom of thought, conscience and religion, freedom of speech and discriminatory".

    The French government asked the court to throw out the case, claiming that the law was not aimed at the burqa or veil but any covering of the face in a public place, and also applied to hoods and helmets when not worn on a motor vehicle.
    The court heard that out of an estimated five million Muslims living in France – the exact figure is unknown as it is illegal to gather data by religion or ethnic group – only about 1,900 women were estimated to be affected by the ban, according to 2009 research. French officials told the judges this figure had since dropped by half "thanks to a major public information campaign".

    The complainant, named only by the initials SAS, was described as a "perfect French citizen with an university education …who speaks of her republic with passion".

    Her lawyer Tony Muman told the ECHR last November: "She's a patriot" adding that she had suffered "absolutely no pressure" from her family or relatives to cover herself. While she was prepared to uncover her face for identity checks, she insisted on the right to wear the full-face veil, Muman said.

    The European judges decided otherwise, declaring that the preservation of a certain idea of "living together" was the "legitimate aim" of the French authorities.

    Isabelle Niedlispacher, representing the Belgian government, which introduced a similar ban in 2011 and which was party to the French defence, declared both the burqa and niqab "incompatible" with the rule of law.

    Aside from questions of security and equality, she added: "It's about social communication, the right to interact with someone by looking them in the face and about not disappearing under a piece of clothing."

    The French and Belgian laws were aimed at "helping everyone to integrate", Niedlispacher added.

    The ECHR has already upheld France's ban on headscarves in educational establishments, and its regulation requiring the removal of scarves, veils and turbans for security checks.
    Tuesday's legal decision came a few days after France's highest court, the cour de cassation, upheld the firing of a creche worker for "serious misconduct" after she arrived for work wearing a veil. The woman has said she will appeal to the ECHR.
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...n-rights-court

    What do you think? Is this ruling lawful? Does it help muslims to integrate?


    Who would have thought that the EU had the balls for a hard stance on radical islam?
    I think this is wonderful, it opens the road for a European wide ban of this barbaric, misogynistic practice.
    Vive la France
    HATE SPEECH ISN'T REAL

  2. #2

    Default Re: European right courts rules in favor of France's burqua ban

    Its good to see France waking up.

  3. #3
    2-D Ron's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: European right courts rules in favor of France's burqua ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayer View Post
    This almost went unnoticed by the tw community:




    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...n-rights-court

    What do you think? Is this ruling lawful? Does it help muslims to integrate?


    Who would have thought that the EU had the balls for a hard stance on radical islam?
    I think this is wonderful, it opens the road for a European wide ban of this barbaric, misogynistic practice.
    Vive la France



    It shows that the Government can now dictate what we wear, hardly viva France, more viva fascism.

  4. #4

    Default Re: European right courts rules in favor of France's burqua ban

    Quote Originally Posted by 2-D Ron View Post
    It shows that the Government can now dictate what we wear, hardly viva France, more viva fascism.
    Every government is fascist that way, given how you can't run around naked, for example.
    But at least that would protect women who are forced to wear this clothing because of irrational religious traditions.

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    2-D Ron's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: European right courts rules in favor of France's burqua ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Every government is fascist that way, given how you can't run around naked, for example.
    But at least that would protect women who are forced to wear this clothing because of irrational religious traditions.

    People have a right to those religious traditions, even if we don't agree to them.. If they feel they are being wrongly mistreated then there are laws already in place that protect their rights to live without the oppression of another.

    This is just French reactionary fearmongering, pandering to the Front Nationale.

    Personally I don't care what they wear? It's not my business or yours what they wear, that's what true freedom is, not this creeping Police State.
    Another victory for Al Quieda, Europes becoming more of a repressed police state by the day.

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    Default Re: European right courts rules in favor of France's burqua ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Every government is fascist that way, given how you can't run around naked, for example.
    But at least that would protect women who are forced to wear this clothing because of irrational religious traditions.
    If they really don't want those traditions, they could just leave the Muslim communities and give up Islam, no? It's their choice.

  7. #7

    Default Re: European right courts rules in favor of France's burqua ban

    Quote Originally Posted by 2-D Ron View Post
    It shows that the Government can now dictate what we wear, hardly viva France, more viva fascism.
    You people have no idea what fascism is...

  8. #8

    Default Re: European right courts rules in favor of France's burqua ban

    Actually it is a rather progressive measure, since it ensures women's freedom from barbaric religious traditions. It is a lesser evil to appeasing the religious fundamentalists.

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    Default Re: European right courts rules in favor of France's burqua ban

    Quote Originally Posted by 2-D Ron View Post
    People have a right to those religious traditions, even if we don't agree to them..
    Does this right also include human sacrifice and witchhunts?
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    2-D Ron's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayer View Post
    Does this right also include human sacrifice and witchhunts?


    What do you think?

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Filmmaker View Post
    Nations should be able to enact laws against the concealment of one's identity, regardless of the sociological implications of allowing or abolishing a cultural/religious tradition.


    And I so wanted to dress up as Spiderman this Halloween. Technically the law would apply to people covering up.
    It's simply a law that panders to fear; it's nothing new, we persecuted the Jews, the Irish, the Italians.
    The newest craze for paranoid's and s everywhere. In 30-50 years time nobody will care about Muslims, I guarantee it.
    Last edited by Tiberios; July 20, 2014 at 03:38 PM. Reason: Consecutive posts.

  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayer View Post
    Does this right also include human sacrifice and witchhunts?
    Straw man, and you knew it when you typed it.

    Hint: there's an awfully wide spectrum of practices of belief between human sacrifice and a head covering.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Actually it is a rather progressive measure, since it ensures women's freedom from barbaric religious traditions.
    And also quite effectively prevents those who choose to practice this tradition from doing so. How progressive.

    Sorry for the triple-post, everybody...I'll consolidate when I get a chance, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by Braindead Colonel View Post
    Good. The state is responsible for the well-being of its citizens. The burqua is a form of oppression whether the women wearing it realize that or not.
    ...what amazing hubris. Women who choose to practice this observance are repressed, thus we must re-make that choice for them?

    Silly barbarians just don't know any better?
    Last edited by Aikanár; July 21, 2014 at 02:59 PM. Reason: tripple postings

  12. #12

    Default Re: European right courts rules in favor of France's burqua ban

    France passes law that says you can't cover your face in public, news at 11.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
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  13. #13

    Default Re: European right courts rules in favor of France's burqua ban

    Male circumcision is a very grey area; female circumcision isn't.
    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

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    Default Re: European right courts rules in favor of France's burqua ban

    People have a right to those religious traditions, even if we don't agree to them.
    The problem with Islam lies in the fact that their ultimate goal is the imposition of Sharia law across nations, and that is something we should fight against at every turn.

    Even moderate Muslims are still problematic.
    "It's bizarre though. Donald Trump, an ageing, orange skinned reality TV star with a history of selling steaks and conning people, a trophy wife and one of the most fragile egos I've seen pretty much just destroyed the head of the interventionist faction in the US State apparatus, Victoria Nuland, after literally becoming President of the United states. We must live in one of the more interesting timelines."

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    Default Re: European right courts rules in favor of France's burqua ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Condottiere 40K View Post
    Male circumcision is a very grey area; female circumcision isn't.
    The problem with banning circumcision is that it historically led to rebellion, war and genocide when enacted in jewish territory.
    HATE SPEECH ISN'T REAL

  16. #16

    Default Re: European right courts rules in favor of France's burqua ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Costin_Razvan View Post
    The problem with Islam lies in the fact that their ultimate goal is the imposition of Sharia law across nations, and that is something we should fight against at every turn.

    Even moderate Muslims are still problematic.
    I notice the hypocrisy of your comment, and like any other Christian will continue to to work for our ultimate goal the Kingdom of God, spread across all nations.
    Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar

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    Mayer's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: European right courts rules in favor of France's burqua ban

    keep your 'Kingdom of God' for yourself, i don't want anything to do with it

    Quote Originally Posted by Setekh View Post
    How is it not an expression? Does it not express your desire to cover up, the same way wearing other clothing pieces are? What about tattoos? You think it wouldn't violate freedom of expression to ban tattoos?
    "The burkha is not a religious sign, it's a sign of subservience, a sign of debasement." - Sarkozy

    Quote Originally Posted by Setekh View Post
    What about the second question on relevancy of misogynistic attitudes in Muslim societies? No answer for that.
    the burqua is a expression of misogynistic attitude of muslim societies

    Quote Originally Posted by Setekh View Post
    Since there are many women out there that wear it by their own choice it's rather childish to keep claiming that it's only an expression of oppression.
    i doubt any of those are genuine examples of women who voluntary dress in burqua
    Last edited by Mayer; July 20, 2014 at 06:31 PM.
    HATE SPEECH ISN'T REAL

  18. #18

    Default Re: European right courts rules in favor of France's burqua ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayer View Post
    keep your 'Kingdom of God' for yourself, i don't want anything to do with it
    I never thought you were part of it, with your damned posts. So much for you loving European culture.

    How can a piece of clothing not be associated with a religion and yet represent the attitudes of a religion, all adherents, whether they wear it or not. Make your mind up, be consistent with your ranting.
    Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar

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  19. #19

    Default Re: European right courts rules in favor of France's burqua ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayer View Post
    "The burkha is not a religious sign, it's a sign of subservience, a sign of debasement." - Sarkozy
    Doesn't answer the question.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mayer View Post
    the burqua is a expression of misogynistic attitude of muslim societies
    The question asked it's relevance. You're not answering the question.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mayer View Post
    i doubt any of those are genuine examples of women who voluntary dress in burqua
    Not for anyone to decide that.

    Come on. Respond with something sensible and logical.
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    Default Re: European right courts rules in favor of France's burqua ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Setekh View Post
    The question asked it's relevance. You're not answering the question.
    It's the cause, so it's relevant. Not my problem that you ignore it, it's your problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Setekh View Post
    Not for anyone to decide that.
    you are unable to prove the opposite
    HATE SPEECH ISN'T REAL

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