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  1. #1
    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default US Senate transportation bill

    http://thehill.com/policy/transporta...e-highway-bill

    The White House on Monday backed a $10 billion bill in the House that would extend federal transportation funding through next spring.The surprise endorsement of the bill, which is scheduled to come up for a vote in the House on Tuesday, clears the way for a deal with Democrats in the Senate.

    For most of the year, President Obama has pushed lawmakers to approve a transportation funding package that would last four years and include $302 billion in road and transit spending.
    http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/fixgo...tructure-davis

    The House overwhelmingly passed a stop-gap bill yesterday that financed the Highway Trust Fund until May, 2015. The temporary funding would allow states to continue with thousands of infrastructure projects and avoid putting construction workers out of work. The Senate is expected to pass the House bill but continue to work on a long-term highway funding bill.That’s the good news.
    The bad news is that Congress is still not addressing the fact that the country’s infrastructure needs require more than temporary solutions. As Bill Galston and I argued in our 2012 report,“Setting Priorities, Meeting Needs: The Case for a National Infrastructure Bank,” the nation needs to set clear priorities and establish long-term funding for our infrastructure if we want to encourage economic growth and remain competitive in the global economy.
    Since the 1960s, total public spending on infrastructure has steadily fallen. Unfortunately, the debate over yesterday’s transportation bill gives little hope that this will change. Republicans refuse to consider any funding mechanisms that rely on new sources of revenue, such as an increase in the gas tax, which some legislators have urged. Some conservative lawmakers have even gone so far as to argue that the federal government has no place in infrastructure funding, that the responsibility for raising funds and executing projects should lay with states and localities. The fact is, though, that states and localities already shoulder the majority of the costs of the nation’s infrastructure. According to the Congressional Budget Office, states and localities cover 75 percent of the costs associated with highways, mass transit, rail, dams, levees, and waterways, projects that represent by far the greatest public investment in infrastructure.

    This bill doesnt solve any of the deeper problems. Its just kicking the can down the road. Till next spring. Like always. The congress cant even do what is right and increase the gas tax. The gas tax is suppose to pay for the highway act. That was the deal. But nope... cant increase taxes.

    So workers and companies are forced to compromise on pensions so there is a little bit more tax dollars to repave roads.

  2. #2

    Default Re: US Senate transportation bill

    What'd you expect from this congress? A solution?
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  3. #3
    I WUB PUGS's Avatar OOH KILL 'EM
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    Default Re: US Senate transportation bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    What'd you expect from this congress? A solution?
    I'm quite frankly shocked that a bill of any sort passed. Been operating off budget for years now, just coasting. Getting agreement on new spending is shocking indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by MathiasOfAthens View Post
    Remove the Highway act and leave it to states to fund their own highways. However, we would have to make federal

    Have you driven on I-10 between Beaumont and Mobile during the pre-Katrina days (big highway money after Katrina)????????????????

    Louisiana and Mississippi cannot hope to maintain their roads for long EVEN WITH massive Federal funding. Putting them in States hands..........whew. Well at least Mississippi will become even more like Afghanistan with dirt roads.
    Last edited by I WUB PUGS; July 17, 2014 at 11:44 AM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: US Senate transportation bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    What'd you expect from this congress? A solution?
    Well, the House has sent nearly 300 "solutions" to the Senate this fiscal year but Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid refuses to bring anything to a vote. By contrast, the Senate has passed just 14 "solutions" since January, most of those essential routine legislation from the House. So as a general note, why is it I only ever hear complaints about the "do nothing" House, and specifically House Republcans?
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  5. #5
    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: US Senate transportation bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Oh bull . Inflation on gas tax is something we'd agree on so take your Fox News of TWC and shove in a deep dark hole that goes nowhere. I just think there are other things that go in front of it for priority whether tied to transportation or not and given the nature of this congress, that means we'll be waiting a good long long while before you get your inflation tied to gas tax, whether they do things in your order or mine. Too damn bad. All because you couldn't comprehend the meaning of Post 19 in this thread you feel you have to throw that one out, did you? I'll spell it out for a third time in this thread and a second time in this post. I have higher priorities than inflation tied to gas tax. Get the over it.
    I don't know how many different ways to say I don't wish to discuss this with you, have no idea what your problem is or what you are arguing about. I've tried so many now, I really don't think I'm the one that needs to get over anything. I haven't had a clue what you are arguing about since post 19 so I don't see how I could possibly disagree with you. Just seems like you want to be angry and Denny to be wrong. Well OK then, bye.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    Well, the House has sent nearly 300 "solutions" to the Senate this fiscal year but Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid refuses to bring anything to a vote. By contrast, the Senate has passed just 14 "solutions" since January, most of those essential routine legislation from the House. So as a general note, why is it I only ever hear complaints about the "do nothing" House, and specifically House Republcans?
    Harry Reid seems to be one (and you get them on both sides) of the best examples of all that is wrong about US politics. If what I've read is correct he is all Pork, all political engineering. Maybe it is being in the senate for 30 odd years (again I think my US politics isn't the best) makes you lose perspective. It becomes all about the party rather than what is right, oh and lining your own and your friends pockets.

  6. #6

    Default Re: US Senate transportation bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Crane! View Post
    Harry Reid seems to be one (and you get them on both sides) of the best examples of all that is wrong about US politics. If what I've read is correct he is all Pork, all political engineering. Maybe it is being in the senate for 30 odd years (again I think my US politics isn't the best) makes you lose perspective. It becomes all about the party rather than what is right, oh and lining your own and your friends pockets.
    Well, there are rumors that he is senile, but what we do know is that he's using his office to block virtually all legislation, and the hugely biased American media is blaming House Republicans for it, which is an outright lie given the hard numbers. I'm surprised right-wing media like Fox aren't having a field day with that story.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  7. #7

    Default Re: US Senate transportation bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    Well, there are rumors that he is senile, but what we do know is that he's using his office to block virtually all legislation, and the hugely biased American media is blaming House Republicans for it, which is an outright lie given the hard numbers. I'm surprised right-wing media like Fox aren't having a field day with that story.
    Hell he ain't senile enough to forget how to get a vote on ambassadors through. I'm not sure you can blame this problem on Harry Reid, though you might have an argument for the Senate in general when there's no Ambassador in a quarter of our embassies around the world and the nominations still won't be voted on. Guatemala. Sending kids running over our border. No ambassador being voted on to answer the phone. Russia. We're in an incredibly crazy political and economic standoff with them. No ambassador being voted on to answer the phone. Brilliant job Senate.

    Unless you really think Reid's tabling those votes too, the same as he is House Bills he doesn't like? Make me believe that one.
    Last edited by Gaidin; July 25, 2014 at 10:32 PM.
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  8. #8
    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: US Senate transportation bill

    This week President Obama is putting the hard sell on raising highway and transit aid, as the federal Highway Trust Fund (HTF) warns that it's bound by early August to run out of sufficient money to meet state obligations. The White House says Obama will discuss the matter Tuesday in Virginia, where he's expected to propose a "pro-growth business tax reform" solution. In Delaware on Thursday, he'll announce an initiative to increase private-sector investment in transportation.

    About 27 percent of highway and transit spending currently comes from the federal government, via the HTF, while states kicking in about 38 percent and 35 percent coming from municipalities. The HTF isn't set to "run dry" in August, as many are reporting, but it did tell states to expect an average 28 percent reduction in aid at that point unless Congress acts. The fund faces a $15 billion gap between projected spending and the money it will collect in 2015.

    House and Senate committees began addressing ways to shore up HTF funding last week, both in the short-term and the long-term. The existing two-year funding measure expires at this end of this September. Legislators are now looking at bills that would provide about $11 billion to the HTF through May 2015 and address long-term funding separately in the future.

    State governors still say Congress isn't acting fast enough, and it's hindering their ability to plan and build major highway and bridge projects. From Reuters:

    Republicans and Democrats who gathered in Nashville during the weekend for a National Governors Association (NGA) meeting said that at minimum Congress should approve a short-term fix before the federal highway account becomes insolvent by the end of August. Yet they want a longer solution to remove uncertainly that could stop or delay projects worth an estimated $3.6 trillion to fix crumbling roads and bridges.

    The inability of Congress to agree increases pressure on states to find alternative financing for their share, governors said. It affects the work needed to create jobs and boost the economy while repairing outdated infrastructure to avoid disasters such as the 2007 Minneapolis bridge collapse that killed 13 people and injured 145.

    According to the American Society of Civil Engineers, the U.S. needs $3.6 trillion by 2020 to maintain highways, bridges, and other infrastructure. One way to raise some funds would be to raise fuel taxes, relied on heavily by states and the federal government to fund infrastructure projects—and untouched by Congress since 1993.

    Yet there's nothing stopping states from taking this matter into their own hands. Since 2013, seven states have raised fuel levies, reports Reuters, while Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker is considering substituting sales tax and Indiana Gov. Mike Pence is pushing public-private partnerships. Other governors at the NGA conference also said they were looking at alternative funding solutions.

    When left a little more to their own devices, it seems states get innovative. They develop localized solutions. They experiment.

    Vice President Joe Biden was wistful when he told governors that, "you’re the ones leading in your states without much help from the United States Congress. You’ve got to lead us out of this mess we’re in." He saw this as an unfortunate byproduct of Congressional gridlock. But it may just be exactly what we need.

    "The federal and state governments are having difficulty maintaining transportation investments in large part because they rely heavily on the gas tax, a declining revenue source, to pay for road and transit infrastructure," Pew Research Center notes. "This revenue has fallen substantially in real terms across all levels of government over the past decade as a result of changing driving habits and increased fuel efficiency."

    Clearly the fuel-tax system of infrastructure funding can't sustain itself and will only get less sensible with time. But fuel tax revenue decline doesn't tell the whole story of the HTF's funding gap. From Cato's Chris Edwards:

    In recent years, gas tax revenues have flat-lined. But the source of the HTF gap was highway and transit spending getting ahead of revenues, and then staying at elevated levels.

    The chart (below) shows real federal highway and transit spending since 1970. Real highway spending (red line) has almost doubled over the last two decades, from $29.1 billion in 1994 to $56.2 billion in 2014. Real transit spending (green line) has also risen since the mid-1990s.



    In May testimony before the Senate Finance Committee, Edwards suggested that one way to close the large funding gap between what the HTF currently has and what it needs "would be to reduce spending and downsize the federal role in transportation. That approach would encourage state governments to pursue their own innovative solutions for highways and transit, such as new types of user charges, public-private partnerships, and privatization."

    "Privatization" of infrastructure sounds to most people like a spooky libertarian pipe dream, but Edwards points out that privately-funded infrastructure is already common. "Private infrastructure spending—on factories, freight rail, cell towers, pipelines, refineries, and other items—is four times larger than federal, state, and local government infrastructure spending combined," he said.

    Transporation policy analyst Emilly Goff agrees that "our Washington-centric approach isn’t solving our traffic and mobility issues." This is largely because when the federal government acts as a middleman, project priorities get skewed, she says.

    When car and truck drivers pay the 18.4 cents per gallon federal gas tax (24.4 cents per gallon for diesel) at the pump, they expect better roads and less traffic congestion in return. Instead, Washington diverts more than 25% of that money to subways, streetcars, buses, bicycle and nature paths, and landscaping, at the expense of road and bridge projects.

    A federal gas tax hike presumably would continue this unfair trend.

    The beneficiaries of these local activities take from, but do not contribute to, the Highway Trust Fund. Better for New York and New Jersey to fund their subways, Oregon its bike paths and Maryland its trails.

    And though much is made of the horrid state of our "crumbling infrastructure," we've actually been making a lot of progress on that front, says The Washington Post's Robert Samuelson.

    Take bridges as an example. The record looks grim. In 2012, about 67,000 bridges were rated "structurally deficient."

    But the record needs context. With 607,000 U.S. bridges, those 67,000 represent 11 percent of the total—a share that’s down from about 25 percent in 1990.

    Samuelson also notes that "structurally deficient" doesn't necessarily mean unsafe. According to the Congressional Research Service, it may simply mean that weight restrictions need to be posted or some smaller repairs made.

  9. #9
    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: US Senate transportation bill

    Remove the Highway act and leave it to states to fund their own highways. However, we would have to make federal highways state highways. That might change some laws but sounds ok to me. Obviously, a load of states would not be able to afford to pay for their highways. So a couple options would emerge. Privatetization or increased funding from other sectors.

    Federal investment is still needed to grow states transit options like High Speed rail. Without that federal spending transit wont get the boost that Highway funding got. The states could have built their own "federal highways" if they had a vibrant and thriving economy but most didnt. And a lot of those highways wouldnt have been built if the Feds didnt build them.

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    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: US Senate transportation bill

    Quote Originally Posted by MathiasOfAthens View Post
    Remove the Highway act and leave it to states to fund their own highways. However, we would have to make federal highways state highways. That might change some laws but sounds ok to me. Obviously, a load of states would not be able to afford to pay for their highways. So a couple options would emerge. Privatetization or increased funding from other sectors.

    Federal investment is still needed to grow states transit options like High Speed rail. Without that federal spending transit wont get the boost that Highway funding got. The states could have built their own "federal highways" if they had a vibrant and thriving economy but most didnt. And a lot of those highways wouldnt have been built if the Feds didnt build them.
    Well big government might have an easier time funding big projects if they are not worrying about the small stuff.

    Our big government cant afford new infrastructure never mind your small governments so there is talk of new roads being funded privately and paid by toll, it works OK in france why not in USA or the UK?

    As for roads that would not have been built...perhaps they should not have been built.

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    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: US Senate transportation bill

    I think... most roads in the US should not have been built in the first place. France has a large system of highspeed rail trains. That provides other options opposed to strictly commuting in private cars. The US has a large network of highways that are unfunded. Privatize them and you leave commuters with only one option and that is to pay for those previously free roads. I say why not but odds of it happening are impossible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MathiasOfAthens View Post
    I think... most roads in the US should not have been built in the first place. France has a large system of highspeed rail trains. That provides other options opposed to strictly commuting in private cars. The US has a large network of highways that are unfunded. Privatize them and you leave commuters with only one option and that is to pay for those previously free roads. I say why not but odds of it happening are impossible.
    Sounds like a dream world, are you under some illusion that the motorways in France aren't used and its a rail paradise? Rail is good but the motor ways are used, a lot!

    As for people paying tolls on roads, pay it one way or pay it another either way the roads are not free, you do get that don't you?

    And I know you love High Speed Rail like a Christian loves Jesus but might want to look at the UK and our implementation of high speed rail, we do not want it, its to expensive and it isnt going to improve much at all. People who drive are still going to drive.

    I guess if you asked half a million people you might find one maybe even two people who are in favour of it.
    Last edited by Aikanár; July 17, 2014 at 02:51 PM. Reason: consecutive postings

  13. #13

    Default Re: US Senate transportation bill

    The root of the problem is that the Federal Gas tax, and many state gas taxes are not tied to inflation. The federal gas tax hasn't changed since 1993, even though the dollar has inflated 65% since then. Large fuel efficiency increases and reduced driving habits also have put substantial downward pressure on revenue.

    I like the idea of National Infrastructure Reinvestment Bank, but I've read that it is politically impossible.

  14. #14
    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: US Senate transportation bill

    Do you guys have an exemption for electric vehicles and road tax? Because that is set to kick the UK in the teeth soon with multiple electric vehicles starting to sell well (and really low emission cars are also exempt).

  15. #15

    Default Re: US Senate transportation bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Crane! View Post
    Do you guys have an exemption for electric vehicles and road tax? Because that is set to kick the UK in the teeth soon with multiple electric vehicles starting to sell well (and really low emission cars are also exempt).
    Functionally. A hefty chunk of funding is tied to gas tax. If electric cars ever become a huge enough thing it will be funny to watch them find an alternate source of funding, if you don't mind me pretending they have enough now for the sake of this post, which they obviously don't.
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  16. #16
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    Default Re: US Senate transportation bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Functionally. A hefty chunk of funding is tied to gas tax. If electric cars ever become a huge enough thing it will be funny to watch them find an alternate source of funding, if you don't mind me pretending they have enough now for the sake of this post, which they obviously don't.
    Ah nice to know that they happily set themselves up road blocks

    I'm very confused then it seems obvious to me that the system needs fundamental change since if not pretending we already know it is a huge disaster but it seems there isn't any recognition of that fact.

    It went largely unremarked in the UK when Vince Cable (our business secretary) said hey look we got a bunch of roads and other stuff needed, we ain't got the money so we'll let private business do it (and hey look at the M6 toll, everyone loves that road and that is private) with close oversight. It wasn't popular but it also wasn't particularly contentious.

    Of course no one actually did anything, sounded good though.

  17. #17

    Default Re: US Senate transportation bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Crane! View Post
    Ah nice to know that they happily set themselves up road blocks
    Gas tax became the thing loooooong before electric cars were a feasible glint in the engineer's eye. And they still aren't outside of the major cities and certainly nowhere near the mountains and the vast majority of the midwest. It's not like they happily set themselves up roadblocks, it's just never been an issue. Other things are issues first. You deal with the bridge in front of you, not the one ten bridges down.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
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  18. #18
    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: US Senate transportation bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Gas tax became the thing loooooong before electric cars were a feasible glint in the engineer's eye. And they still aren't outside of the major cities and certainly nowhere near the mountains and the vast majority of the midwest. It's not like they happily set themselves up roadblocks, it's just never been an issue. Other things are issues first. You deal with the bridge in front of you, not the one ten bridges down.
    Sounds like it is a thing though considering the gas tax has not been inflation linked the money has started running out now, for slightly different reasons than the UK but still the same problem. So what is the alternative? Reaffirm the link to inflation and spike gas prices and deal with the bridge in front of you by building it on sand?

  19. #19

    Default Re: US Senate transportation bill

    We have "registration renewal fees" and they are set and collected by the states, not the feds. I don't know the policy of each state, but it isn't my experience that they are tied to fuel efficiency.

  20. #20

    Default Re: US Senate transportation bill

    In a way, making the States responsible for their own infrastructure, would, in theory, ensure that the roads are kept up, as other States could use their transport infrastructure to attract companies whose business relies on it.

    However, that's shortsighted, as the Federal government is there to ensure a fair and uniform access.

    Population density would favour railways, and faster and extensive railway networks make commuting attractive.
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