2014/15 English Premier League

[Ferdiad]

Standing works in eveyr other sport and league in the world. One incident back in the 80s shouldn't stop you guys from implementing it.

[Ybbon]

I don't disagree, and I used to love standing on the North Bank - I went in the West Stand with my cousin a few times and it was never the same as the North Bank. I'm simply saying that it will never be allowed officially, now maybe the real reason is the amount of trouble that official inquiries generated for the authorities from Hillsborough (quite rightly), but they are just unlikely to be recreated any time soon.

Personally, I reckon one of the reasons that has seen the decline of atmosphere is the blasting out of music at every possible junction, hell it's so loud at times it drowns out commentary when you are watching or listening - how can you set up any songs when you are drowned out by music blasted out. Personally I reckon every one of the clubs should fire their club DJ's tomorrow and it would improve atmosphere right away.

[LestaT]

Utd 1-2 Swansea so far

United lost!

LvG Out !

[Petrucci]

Their FA prides itself on selling an image of sanitised, family-friendly football. No fireworks, no drums, no trumpets, no standing areas, no place to hang your flags from… it's like watching the games on TV but without the repeats and the awful commentators.

Yes, they kind kill all magic from being on stadium.

Of course I understand that, and I think ultimately it would have to be up to other clubs to lead the way. I mean the Spirit of Shankly doesn't have an official stance on safe-standing for that reason. As an interesting side note, the Liberal Democrats are officially in favour of safe-standing. Not that they've done a thing about it since being in power.

But it's in the name 'safe-standing'. I mean at every ground you go to all the away fans stand regardless, and in Anfield at least the Kop usually spends the whole match stood up as well. The fact is, standing up behind seats is far more dangerous then standing behind railings especially designed for, well, standing. I don't know what its like in the Emirates, but the gaps between the seats at Anfield are really very narrow and you often end up banging your shins, and it would be quite possible to tumble into the row in front. People will stand regardless, so why not make it safer (and cheaper but that's a different matter I guess) for them to do so? They do it in Germany, and they do it in this country as well for other sports. But apparently its only considered dangerous if its a football match, but not a rugby one (even if its a ground which a football and rugby team share).

The fact is, there is no safe standing because then they wouldn't be able to justify £40+ tickets.




I am not saying we should allow fireworks back in though (although you will occasionally see them on a European night), or even smoke bombs for that matter (I can understand why they are banned- although I personally like seeing them regardless).

On the musical instruments thing, I think that is usually up to individual grounds to make a policy. Some stadiums allow them, some don't. Leicester City for example have a guy who turns up to every match with a massive drum (although I think he actually has a specially designated area).

On flags, I think you are right that they are officially banned as they can be used as offensive weapons. However again different grounds have different policies. Anfield obviously tolerates them, although I think you have to register your flag before a game. Old Trafford on the other hand are apparently complete dicks about flags and banners (in fact their stewards are renowned for being dicks generally).

English worry to much about trivials. Firework is a bit dangerous but I wouldn't have problem with some nice choreography, it not like wearing firearms on stadium (seen that a few times).
Can't see why drum and singing could hurt anyone , this Leicester Guy makes me more eager for tonight's match. Germans shout on their inarticulate language whole time and make pretty good ambient in their league.
Flags as offensive weapons? Seriously?? Too much "The Patriot" ..

[Azog 150]

English worry to much about trivials. Firework is a bit dangerous but I wouldn't have problem with some nice choreography, it not like wearing firearms on stadium (seen that a few times).
Can't see why drum and singing could hurt anyone , this Leicester Guy makes me more eager for tonight's match. Germans shout on their inarticulate language whole time and make pretty good ambient in their league.
Flags as offensive weapons? Seriously?? Too much "The Patriot" ..

Choreography isn't the British way. Its about off-the-cuff, in-the-moment passion; not pre-planned passion. Don't get me wrong, some of the choreography you see in Europe and elsewhere is very impressive, very loud, intimidating and visually stunning, but its not as exhilarating as an atmosphere created in the heat of the moment.

If you want to see a decent, un-choreographed Premier League atmosphere then you want to look at this (cracking game as well ):

http://www.footballorgin.com/2014/04...ity-watch.html (Even if you just watch the first 5-10 mins or so of the game to get the idea)

Or alternatively tune in to some of our Champions League games this season



Edit:

Champions League night:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haOjrqNhR6w

And this is probably the loudest Anfield has ever been (before my time unfortunately- this is when you had 30,000 crammed into the Kop alone):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZdpzXXKpp8

Obviously Kopites get a lot of stick for banging on about history, and the amount of titles won and all the rest of it. But for me the history is less about the trophies and more about the passion (although don't get me wrong, they went hand-in-hand). We might win more trophies in the future, but we won't ever see a replication of St.Etienne (Probably for good reason mind- I mean look at all the people round the side of pitch getting treatment because they've fainted!!). I don't look at old videos and think, 'look how much we were winning'. I just think, 'look at the Kop'. Mental.

[a tw player]

That atmosphere against City at Anfield was absolutely incredible, best atmosphere heard there for a long time (just the relentless noise and booing when not in possession was very intimidating)

Makes me sad looking at how amazing Anfield can be, then looking at the library-esque performance against Southampton - though it's a understandable it won't be quite like that every week

[Knight of Heaven]

English worry to much about trivials. Firework is a bit dangerous but I wouldn't have problem with some nice choreography, it not like wearing firearms on stadium (seen that a few times).
Can't see why drum and singing could hurt anyone , this Leicester Guy makes me more eager for tonight's match. Germans shout on their inarticulate language whole time and make pretty good ambient in their league.
Flags as offensive weapons? Seriously?? Too much "The Patriot" ..

Flags are often considered offensive weapons for a long time here in Portugal too. With good reason, its poles were often used on people in confrontations between groups, or the police. However organized suport groups are alowed to bring a limited few to each game as i understand.
About Choreography, or rather fantastic displays, the best i seen is from Fluminense matches In Rio De Janeiro in Brazil.
They use makeup white powder ( po de arroz) its unbelivable to behold. It has a nice story behind it as well related with the history of the team, in its early days, when Black players werent alowed in Fluminense, but due to the competition, from other teams, they signed a Black player eventualy, and made him wear white makeup, to look more caucasian in his debut, in order to not cause impression on the aristocrat ladies and children in attendence.
Well as the story goes, as soon the guy started to run, and sweating, his makeup just "melted", and the whole stadium and adversary suporters stared laughing at the rouse. Hence forth the use of it in Fluminense games has become tradition to this day and a way to highlight the issue of racism and as acceptance of their own past and with its rottens along.
Europe could use something like this. The cases of racism in europe are quite glaring at times, and actualy quite frequent.
regardless its fantastic

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

]

[Petrucci]

Flags are often considered offensive weapons for a long time here in Portugal too. With good reason, its poles were often used on people in confrontations between groups, or the police. However organized suport groups are alowed to bring a limited few to each game as i understand.
About Choreography, or rather fantastic displays, the best i seen is from Fluminense matches In Rio De Janeiro in Brazil.
They use makeup white powder ( po de arroz) its unbelivable to behold. It has a nice story behind it as well related with the history of the team, in its early days, when Black players werent alowed in Fluminense, but due to the competition, from other teams, they signed a Black player eventualy, and made him wear white makeup, to look more caucasian in his debut, in order to not cause impression on the aristocrat ladies and children in attendence.
Well as the story goes, as soon the guy started to run, and sweating, his makeup just "melted", and the whole stadium and adversary suporters stared laughing at the rouse. Hence forth the use of it in Fluminense games has become tradition to this day and a way to highlight the issue of racism and as acceptance of their own past and with its rottens along.
Europe could use something like this. The cases of racism in europe are quite glaring at times, and actualy quite frequent.
regardless its fantastic

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

]

Beautiful.

[chilon]

Standing works in eveyr other sport and league in the world.

Huh?

No American sport allows standing sections in stadiums (NFL, NBA, hockey, baseball, etc) and they have never had standing sections as long as I can remember.

Also the main incident with Hillsborough was the fences not really the standing. If fans weren't fenced in (like Arsenal refused to ever fence in Highbury) then even if too many got in, it never would have been a crush. People would have just spilled onto the field with no real danger of fatality as what happens when fans are fenced in.

Either way I don't see a need to allow standing section in stadiums. Having a ticketed seat is generally what all sports do. You can still stand and cheer anyway..

[a tw player]

Won't go into Hillsborough, but yeah, the issues that caused that tragedy are not related to safe standing at all.

Either way I don't see a need to allow standing section in stadiums. Having a ticketed seat is generally what all sports do. You can still stand and cheer anyway..

Safer (than standing in an area not designed for standing, as happens at every ground now), presumably cheaper tickets, greater capacities in the stadiums allowing for more fans able to see their teams, better atmosphere. What's not to like?

Just look at the Bundesliga, it looks incredible. I'd love to have a packed, intimidating Kop back please.

[chilon]

Won't go into Hillsborough, but yeah, the issues that caused that tragedy are not related to safe standing at all.

Safer (than standing in an area not designed for standing, as happens at every ground now), presumably cheaper tickets, greater capacities in the stadiums allowing for more fans able to see their teams, better atmosphere. What's not to like?

Just look at the Bundesliga, it looks incredible. I'd love to have a packed, intimidating Kop back please.

Growing up in America and never having a standing section in any sport I guess I just can't relate to the appeal or desire for a standing section. From my experience at college sporting events (which are much more passionate in America than professional sports) there is not really a need for a standing section. Just as long as the loud passionate fans have their own section and are all grouped together I don't see the need or desire for standing sections.

The only "safe standing" I can conceive of would be ticketed locations that are spread out exactly the same as ticketed seats. So people have ticket 'standing slots' instead of ticketed seats.

Never liked the idea of just packing people in like a rock concert or something...

Maybe its just me. I like personal space, I hate being in tight crowds of people. Would much rather have my own seat or designated 'standing slot' that people can't invade.


Also I don't think the lack of passion or an "intimidating Kop" in Liverpool's case is due to lack of standing sections so much as its down to the ticket prices in today's BPL.

When you price out the working class, passionate fans the stadiums might be sold out but they are sold out with the less passionate fans that have a lot of money. You could probably achieve the same affect of an intimidating home stadium by slashing all BPL tickets to half price what they are now and let more non-rich, passionate fans be able to attend games more frequently.

[Azog 150]

That is exactly what is meant by safe standing. Its not just fans packed in like they used to be on the terraces. You would still have your designated zone where you go and stand, and furthermore there would be chairs that could be unlocked for matches such as Champions League ones where its a legal requirement for seats. As tw player said, its safer then standing in a seated area, you can increase the capacity of stadiums and the fact that the tickets would be cheaper and it would attract younger, rowdier fans who would vastly improve the atmosphere (and that in turn can help positively influence your team on the pitch), whereas the older crowd who can't or won't stand for 90 minutes can use the seated areas. After all, 3/4 of a stadium would still be seats, its just the standing areas would be there for those who want it. Its not like anyone's asking for all-standing or even majority-standing stadiums. It would just be one end of the stadium behind the goal, with maybe limited standing on the opposite end as well for away fans.

This is safe standing:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

It would not be even remotely similar to the terraces of old:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I think much of the opposition from safe-standing stems from a belief that it would simply be a return of the terraces. But its very very different.

http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safe...tanding-facts/

[Basileos Leandros I]

Fabregas - midfield masterclass.

That pass to Schurrle was sublime, beautiful vision and execution.

[Petrucci]

Goal of the round.

[Ferdiad]

Some depressing reading if you're interested in why United are ed.
http://www.espnfc.com/blog/espn-fc-u...nd-ed-woodward

http://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/co...r_united_need/

[Treva ★]

The standing areas as I'm sure you are aware, is always going to revolve back to Hillsborough - whether that is a valid argument to ban them is not really the question, simply because of that, there will always be official reluctance to re-introduce them in any major way. Pretty sure health and safety will always be trotted out for fireworks and frankly having fireworks released in a crowd just sounds plain dangerous anyway. Musical instruments is probably also heath and safety and there is more argument to allow them but you'll never get fireworks or big standing areas back.

Strangely enough, FIFA encouraged vuvuzelas and such other merchandise displays of ethnic pride and quaint native traditions in 2014… maybe the FA could market Morris dancing?

English worry to much about trivials. Firework is a bit dangerous but I wouldn't have problem with some nice choreography, it not like wearing firearms on stadium (seen that a few times).
Can't see why drum and singing could hurt anyone , this Leicester Guy makes me more eager for tonight's match. Germans shout on their inarticulate language whole time and make pretty good ambient in their league.
Flags as offensive weapons? Seriously?? Too much "The Patriot" ..

Speaking from experience (I've never been to a match with more than four deaths, which is a sad record), you can easily kill, maim or blind someone on the other end of the stadium with a Roman candle, skyrocket or mortar (aiming is impossible, but who cares?), and you can knock players out with clamour bombs (I've seen it done). Flares and sparklers being disallowed is simply paranoia.
People being impaled on (flag-)poles… yes, very possible. A flagpole doubles as a very long club in any case, the police don't have any melee weapons with that range.
People using long banners to pull down fencing and have a match stopped? Way too many times to mention.

Of course, if your public are nto barbarians they won't do it, last week I even saw cigarette lighters being confiscated as they make excellent goalkeeper- and linesman-killing projectiles.

This is safe standing:

<snipped>

It would not be even remotely similar to the terraces of old:

<snipped>

More than safe enough. The real thing is that you need an educated crowd. Milwall fans can riot even if they're all in straightjackets, seating certainly hasn't deterred them.

[Treva ★]

Some depressing reading if you're interested in why United are ed.
http://www.espnfc.com/blog/espn-fc-u...nd-ed-woodward

http://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/co...r_united_need/

Why would ManYoo being four-letter-worded ever be depressing?

[Ferdiad]

I'm talking to the other united fan here.

[Treva ★]

Too late.

[LestaT]

Some depressing reading if you're interested in why United are ed.
http://www.espnfc.com/blog/espn-fc-u...nd-ed-woodward

http://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/co...r_united_need/

I don't think money issue will bring anything. It's not like players are not getting paid which makes them play like .