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Thread: Bad situation, not sure how to get out of it

  1. #1

    Default Bad situation, not sure how to get out of it

    I just picked this game up, so I'm still learning some of the game mechanics. Currently i'm on the fourth generation of the Ua Brian dynasty, and have all of Ireland under my control except for the county of Ulster, which belongs to the Scottish crown. Somehow the Scots ended up with a claim over the county of Oriel, although I really don't recall getting a message about them fabricating a claim, and I didn't marry anyone off to them that would have had a claim to it. Long story short, I can't avoid a war with them. I have 400 gold to my name as I just got done placating all of my vassals, who were still seething at the tyranny of my last king. My only reliable Ally is Brittany. Scotland, on the other hand, can call on England and Norway, and they both readily answer the call.

    Result? Tens of thousand of men landing on my shores that I simply have no way to stop. Is this pretty much game over for me, here? I can hire mercenaries to barely keep the pace, but the battles take so long that I run out of money. The last time I tried this I ended up in the red and had to dismiss my mercs just as the second wave hit my shores.

  2. #2
    John I Tzimisces's Avatar Get born again.
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    Default Re: Bad situation, not sure how to get out of it

    It's not worth having your armies wiped out and then being subjected to revolts by your vassals who now see you are weak, over oriel. Scotland must have marriage ties with england and norway, so really all you can/should do is concede defeat before you lose any battles, and then wait for them to either be tied up in a different war or for scotland's alliances to change.

  3. #3
    ccllnply's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: Bad situation, not sure how to get out of it

    I'm just guessing here but maybe one of the Scottish king's vassals had a claim on Oriel which he fabricated and his King is just pressing it for him.

    As for the war, well, just give up. Seriously. It's not game over, you'll only lose one provinces and the Scottish king hopefully won't have any claim to your lands and won't be able to declare war on you for a while. What this allows you to do is start again from scratch. There's a few times I would then do to make sure this doesn't happen again.

    1. You'll probably get a strong claim on Oriel after you lose it in this war. Therefore you should use your Chancellor to fabricate a claim on Ulster if you don't already have one. This way you'll have two strong claims on both those provinces so then if you ever see that the Scottish are in trouble you can declare war on them using the "Press All Claims" Casus Belli and drive them out of Ireland in one quick swoop. Note, if losing Oriel doesn't get you a strong claim on it, use you chancellor to fabricate a claim on that too.

    2. Start plotting like crazy. If you do find yourself in a position with two claims and a weak Scotland, it's not going to be much good if the combined forces of England and Norway land on your doorstep. Go in to Scottish King's character page and check the Allies tab to see how he's allied to those kings and find a way to end it by whatever way you can. This can be as easy as assassinating the Scottish king's wife or daughter-in-law, or you may need to kill off the entire English royal family. Either way, the end justifies the means in this case. Unless you're role-playing as a kind character, in which case it'd be poor role-playing

    3. Sometimes you get stuck in this limbo where you just can't get enough plot power to assassinate anyone. Or you get too much and it takes 6 failed attempts before you finally kill your target. You can assassinate using the diplomacy screen as a last resort but at 250 coins a pop it's using not viable, especially as the King of Ireland. So what you need to start doing is making your own alliances. Get your children and siblings and marry them off till you create a coalition to rival Scotland's one. France, Sweden and Denmark should be your main objectives. If there's a king in Frisia, that couldn't hurt either.

    You can try with the Holy Roman Empire if it exists but I often find that with the HRE it's easy to make an alliance, a lot harder to keep it. With other kingdoms, marrying a kings daughter not only guarantees an alliance with that king but also with his heir since his heir with most likely be your brother-in-law. It also gets your heir an alliance because your brother-in-law will be his uncle.

    With the HRE this isn't as easy. You can marry the HRE's daughter and then the emperor dies a week later and a new dynasty takes the throne. Suddenly you're allied to a small duke who can't help you in wars and you've wasted a marriage.

    I can't think of anything else at the moment, but if I do I'll post it.


  4. #4

    Default Re: Bad situation, not sure how to get out of it

    Yeah take their advice and back down for now. Rebuild your strength, and wait for the right time to strike back (civil war, succession crisis, multiple wars etc). You can really get in a downward spiral if you let your troops get annihilated in a futile war. If your troop strength is completely down, other realms and your inner opposition will take the chance and go at you too.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Bad situation, not sure how to get out of it

    Quote Originally Posted by John I Tzimisces View Post
    It's not worth having your armies wiped out and then being subjected to revolts by your vassals who now see you are weak, over oriel. Scotland must have marriage ties with england and norway, so really all you can/should do is concede defeat before you lose any battles, and then wait for them to either be tied up in a different war or for scotland's alliances to change.
    you need to assassinate or kill one of the marriage members that are the key for this alliance
    do it and the alliance will break

    try to stir up the lords in the scottish realm;if youre not a king(but i think you are) become the vassal of the scottish king,start a faction and plot around

    if your faction declares war,maybe some other nobles will go in a separate rebellion -> you can take their lands(if you got the claim)

  6. #6

    Default Re: Bad situation, not sure how to get out of it

    I've attempted a couple games as the Irish. The first time as I was still figuring things out, I took too long to go after territory, though I lost two claims I was planning to go after after my King died rather inconveniently, and then after that, my Chancellor was simply too incompetent to actually Fabricate anything. By the time I did have possible claims to press, every Earl of Ireland was interconnected with alliances to one degree or another that I simply could not compete, and mercenaries are incredibly expensive. 150 gold minimum for about 1500 or so troops. On a more recent attempt, I was a lot smarter with how I pursued claims and utilized my resources, that I didn't have to worry about outsiders interfering with our internal struggles.

    In any case, you definitely want to acquire some decent alliances of your own. In my games I've routinely had the Danes as an ally, and they're one of the few reliable ones I've had that have answered a call to war. Sweden may also be an alternative, as well as Norway and England. One possibility is to marry a number of times into those families or Kingdoms that Scotland is also allied with. Improve your relations with Norway and England to the point where either Kingdom declines to answer Scotland's call.

    If Scotland has a strong claim on Oriel, you may not be able to do much about it. Accept the loss, and take a different approach. What does make Ireland an easy place for those new to the game to start in is that few bother to press claims on Ireland so you're isolated from the rest of the world, giving you time to get a decent position before you involve yourself in European politics. In my current Ireland game once King Murchad dies, I plan to go after Wales, and once secured possibly mess with a bit of Scotland, get cozy with England and take advantage of rebellions in Scotland which may have a chance to succeed. My alliances with the Danes should provide some support in the event that I need it.

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