Preview: If You were the Doge...

[Iskar]

As you cannot really make previews of events as you can with graphical features, I will post a number of strategic appetisers here, so as to give you an impression of what awaits you in the Italian Wars 4.0 (which is being translated almost simultaneously as we work on the German version). Strategic discussions welcome!

A tempting Offer (Venice)

You are the Doge of Venice. For long You have been struggling with the Pope for parts of the Romagna and dominance over the duchy of Ferrara. Some time ago the Pope has managed to draw the Emperor and the French king into an alliance against You and now Your republic is fighting an expensive and taxing three-front war. But suddenly the Pope changes his mind and secretly offers you an alliance against France. He promises to convince the Emperor of an armistice, if You agree. The pact has only one condition: You are to give up all claims to the Romagna. The French keep supporting Your archenemy Alfonso d'Este, the exile duke of Ferrara. But they are the only ones who would oppose a papally blessed dominance of the Emperor over Italy, who is continually trying to reconquer Your holdings in northern Italy.




Do You accept the offer of the unreliable pope or keep fighting a three-front war with uncertain outcome?

[xxxMoRaVexxx]

Wow, now i'm more excited for the 4.0 ver.

In an event like this, I would rather side with the pope to give me more breathing space than fight a costly war with 3 powerful states. Once I'm in a good enough position, maybe weakening either HRE and France, assuming I hadn't had other wars, I would betray the papal states. He's unreliable so I would rather strike first than risk being backstabbed like what he did for france and hre :p. By that time my faction would've been powerful enough to not care if the other factions like me or not. Lol :p.

[Iskar]

To Let Slip The Dogs of War (Milan)

You are the duke of Milan. For nearly half a century peace has prevailed on the Italian peninsula. Your father had been helped to the Milanese throne by the Medici of Florence, Venice had agreed to the peace of Lodi and the Pope wished for stability to strengthen his hold on the Romagna. But now You receive reports that King Charles VIII of France has dug up an old claim to the throne of Naples, inherited from one of his Angevin ancestors. The Trastamara dynasty now ruling Naples is unlikely to simply give up their kingdom and Charles is considering war. However, the seas around Italy are teeming with Tunisian Corsairs and he cannot risk a maritime voyage with the entirety of his army. Thus, he will be forced to take the land route. While the Pope has already signalled that he does not wish any quarrel with the French for now and will grant free passage, northern Italy is still closed to the king. His envoys keep urging You to comply and offer an alliance with the French, while the Neapolitan emissaries are doing their best to keep You and the republic of Florence further south on their side.
Naples has been expanding its hold on the entirety of southern Italy and the French might be helpful allies, as the relations to Venice are becoming more and more difficult. The doge is relentlessly expanding their inland territories and has set a greedy eye on Your part of Lombardy. The French themselves, however, are ambitious, too. The king might simply invade Lombardy, if he was denied safe passage and the consequences for the fragile balance of power resulting from a full invasion are unforeseeable.

Will You conclude an alliance with France to help You against Venice or side with Naples and risk a war with France?

[Riverrunpls]

Hmm.
I'd probably grant France military access for now, seeing as they are militarily superior. If they'd want an alliance, I'd get them to attack Venice. However, I'd form an alliance with Florence and the Papacy in case France of Venice get too pushy, and consolidate/build forces in my border regions with Venice and France. I would aim to stay out of the war, but keep the French on my good side, that is, unless Austria/HRE wants to intervene (in which case, I'd ally with them and Florence against Venice and, when I'm strong enough, France).

[Aneirin]

But what about the Swiss?
They are quite an unpredictable factor..

[Iskar]

Infuriating Inheritance (France)

You are the king of France. Ever since the failed attempt to draw the Electors on Your side by the means of immense amounts of money the debts weigh heavily on the treasury. Even worse, the Electors chose Charles of Spain as the new Emperor Charles V, whose Habsburg encirclement You are trying to break by yet another war. This war, however, has now been going on for two years already and the cost for the upkeep of the armies are putting additional pressure on the treasury.
Recently Your mother's sister, Suzanne de Bourbon, has died and bequeathed her extensive holdings and the entire duchy of Bourbon - not to back to the crown, but to her husband, Charles, the duke of Bourbon. The duke is the marshal of France, thus Your most important military leader, a powerful and wealthy man, too. Angering him could have dangerous consequences - word has it that he maintains good relations with the Emperor and the king of England.
However, the law of inheritance would admit an interpretation according to which You could claim heirship to Your late aunt. The wealth and income from the holdings of the duchy would be direly needed to refill the hard-pressed treasury and could even provide You with the decisive advantage over the equally bankrupt Habsburgs.


Will You confiscate the inheritance or leave the duke's possessions untouched?

[Turtler]

As you cannot really make previews of events as you can with graphical features, I will post a number of strategic appetisers here, so as to give you an impression of what awaits you in the Italian Wars 4.0 (which is being translated almost simultaneously as we work on the German version). Strategic discussions welcome!

A tempting Offer (Venice)

You are the Doge of Venice. For long You have been struggling with the Pope for parts of the Romagna and dominance over the duchy of Ferrara. Some time ago the Pope has managed to draw the Emperor and the French king into an alliance against You and now Your republic is fighting an expensive and taxing three-front war. But suddenly the Pope changes his mind and secretly offers you an alliance against France. He promises to convince the Emperor of an armistice, if You agree. The pact has only one condition: You are to give up all claims to the Romagna. The French keep supporting Your archenemy Alfonso d'Este, the exile duke of Ferrara. But they are the only ones who would oppose a papally blessed dominance of the Emperor over Italy, who is continually trying to reconquer Your holdings in northern Italy.




Do You accept the offer of the unreliable pope or keep fighting a three-front war with uncertain outcome?

Let all of Christiandom and beyond see how dangerous the Pope is as an ally before they see how pitiful he is as an enemy.Publish the documents from the Pope (or barring that send them around) and see what that gets us. It will create even more dangerous fissures in the enemy alliance, hopefully help discredit the "holy man" as a legitimate representative of God and Christ (thus leaving open the possibility of replacing hm with a Venetian Loyalist down the line...) and make it more possible to carry on. But in the end I would say keep fighting the three front war while that is going on. In real life Venice was in no shape to do this, but since this is a Total War game I am more than capable of prevailing through strategy, tactics, and the right management. Having all of Italy, France, and the Habsburg Empire fighting me just means I have more to seize, and when total victory is accomplished the Most Serene Republic will be master of all Italy. The road to that goal may be bloody, but the ability to remove all enemies at once is literally priceless. In the meantime, having the enemy fight each other rather then I will only help.

To Let Slip The Dogs of War (Milan)

You are the duke of Milan. For nearly half a century peace has prevailed on the Italian peninsula. Your father had been helped to the Milanese throne by the Medici of Florence, Venice had agreed to the peace of Lodi and the Pope wished for stability to strengthen his hold on the Romagna. But now You receive reports that King Charles VIII of France has dug up an old claim to the throne of Naples, inherited from one of his Angevin ancestors. The Trastamara dynasty now ruling Naples is unlikely to simply give up their kingdom and Charles is considering war. However, the seas around Italy are teeming with Tunisian Corsairs and he cannot risk a maritime voyage with the entirety of his army. Thus, he will be forced to take the land route. While the Pope has already signalled that he does not wish any quarrel with the French for now and will grant free passage, northern Italy is still closed to the king. His envoys keep urging You to comply and offer an alliance with the French, while the Neapolitan emissaries are doing their best to keep You and the republic of Florence further south on their side.
Naples has been expanding its hold on the entirety of southern Italy and the French might be helpful allies, as the relations to Venice are becoming more and more difficult. The doge is relentlessly expanding their inland territories and has set a greedy eye on Your part of Lombardy. The French themselves, however, are ambitious, too. The king might simply invade Lombardy, if he was denied safe passage and the consequences for the fragile balance of power resulting from a full invasion are unforeseeable.

Will You conclude an alliance with France to help You against Venice or side with Naples and risk a war with France?

France must be made to surrender the claim to the Milanese throne by Any Means necessary. An other event or arrangement is unacceptable. So offer the French King alliance, safe passage, and possibly recognition of his claim to Naples on the strictest condition that he renounce the throne of Milan and sends his force through in chunks that will be safe for Milanese defenses to guard and if need be destroy, and will likewise be bearable for the population and people. If he refuses to accept these things or does not comply, He Is Lying and must not receive passage by any means. In any event, prepare for war strongly, either marching into the East with the French Army or standing as the gate to Italy against them. In any event, the French must not be allowed to encircle and destroy Milan and if they continue to pursue their claims they must be crushed by military force until the surrender them.

Since I am very competent of my skills on the battlefield, administrative table, and strategic map, I have no fear that I can overcome them or any other enemies present regardless of what passage they choose. In addition, the Fact that the kingdom of France is our neighbor also means that we will be the ones to actually secure land in a war with them. And pushing them through the Riviera and beyond will not only bring Savoy under control and some beautiful and productive land along the Riviera; it will be a telling warning to all comers about what Milanese arms and government are capable of. If the French accept, we can split Lombardy and perhaps even the Romanga between ourselves.

Infuriating Inheritance (France)

You are the king of France. Ever since the failed attempt to draw the Electors on Your side by the means of immense amounts of money the debts weigh heavily on the treasury. Even worse, the Electors chose Charles of Spain as the new Emperor Charles V, whose Habsburg encirclement You are trying to break by yet another war. This war, however, has now been going on for two years already and the cost for the upkeep of the armies are putting additional pressure on the treasury.
Recently Your mother's sister, Suzanne de Bourbon, has died and bequeathed her extensive holdings and the entire duchy of Bourbon - not to back to the crown, but to her husband, Charles, the duke of Bourbon. The duke is the marshal of France, thus Your most important military leader, a powerful and wealthy man, too. Angering him could have dangerous consequences - word has it that he maintains good relations with the Emperor and the king of England.
However, the law of inheritance would admit an interpretation according to which You could claim heirship to Your late aunt. The wealth and income from the holdings of the duchy would be direly needed to refill the hard-pressed treasury and could even provide You with the decisive advantage over the equally bankrupt Habsburgs.


Will You confiscate the inheritance or leave the duke's possessions untouched?

Leave them untouched as a matter of honor, for a government and dynasty's claim to power are only as good as its' laws and the ability to make people recognize that which they desire. But at the same time, insist that as a condition of receiving this inheritance and being invested as lord of Bourbon, Duke Charles must bequeath a vast portion of the inheritance back to the crown in *his* will, should he die. Then send him back out to do the trade of the Marshal of France leading his armies, with the understanding with him that success on the battlefield (and granting of the new territory to the Royal Lands) will open the door to renegotiating the will.

If he dies, Bourbon goes back to the Crown. If he lives, he will win victory for the crown, humble the Habsburgs, gain the funds and resources the French Crown needs, and improve relations between himself and the crown. Things that will allow considerations for the will to be revised to let hm pass the material wealth of his inheritance from Bourbon down to his family and for him to retain some estates. And perhaps to win a royal daughter as husband (which can grant yet another avenue to regain Bourbon for us and tighter relations/favor with the crown for him). All in all, a win-win.

Of course, if at any stage he tries to stab us in the back he will be killed or worse and everything he has will be forfeit to the Crown.

On the whole, must congratulate you so far. all very interesting, and make me look foreword to this even more!!!

[Theramines]

I couldn't imagine any King of France would forgo such a possible windfall. Thus, yes, with a heavy heart I would confiscate it as long as I had one good field army to back my claim.

[Stath's]

Niceee!!

[Iskar]

Well, suppose you have that one good field army you required. You confiscate the duchy and the duke is outraged. With nothing more to lose his last option is to try a coup d'etat together with Charles V and Henry VIII - a long standing conspiracy as it turns out. While Henry besieges Boulogne the imperial troops invade the Champagne and Picardie, attempting to advance on Paris itself. Meanwhile the duke tries to rally parts of the French army to his cause.
Historically the plot was discovered early enough for the king to seize a sufficient number of the duke's most prominent supporters to suppress an army revolt, but it could also have happened otherwise.

What will you do now? Make concessions in Italy to appease Charles and make him withdraw, cede some coastal towns on the channel or pay the huge debt to the English crown, which you had amassed earlier, to pacify Henry or concentrate on removing the duke from the game, either by winning him back for France or eliminating his political supporters?
The choice is yours.

[Iskar]

Very intriguing I really like your reasoning.

And thanks for the praise. I'll come up with another (hopefully) interesting case soon.

[Turtler]

Very intriguing I really like your reasoning.

And thanks for the praise. I'll come up with another (hopefully) interesting case soon.

Thank you yourself. I am glad you liked it. It's good to know that somebody else liked these walls of text..

Good to hear you're planning on continuing these things. Any idea what is up next?

[Iskar]

I'm pondering whether to make one about Florence or something with the Empire/Swabian League. Maybe I'll just do both

[Turtler]

I'm pondering whether to make one about Florence or something with the Empire/Swabian League. Maybe I'll just do both

That's what I was pondering, though the Swabian League seems mostly out of the bounds of the game map. Though I would certainly be interested in all of the above!!!

[Iskar]

The Swabians will in fact be included in 4.0, since the southernmost parts of Germany are well on the map, and there will be some interesting dynamics with them, the Empire and the Swiss.

[Iskar]

95 Reasons for War (Swabian League)

You are the Captain of the Swabian League, controlling most of south-western Germany after Ulrich, the former duke of Württemberg, had been exiled with your help. He has since fled to Switzerland and adopted Lutheran faith. Reports indicate that he has gathered sufficient Swiss support to return and retake his duchy, by force if need be. Meanwhile the Emperor is propagating his motto of "One Empire, One Faith, One Emperor" and is counting on your help to keep the southern parts of the Empire true to him and the Pope. However, the population is unrestful. There are rumours of peasants preparing uprisings, many people seem to favour the Lutheran view, especially among the lesser nobility that would welcome a way to get rid of the regular tributes demanded by the church. Nevertheless the majority still sticks to Catholicism. Moreover, even with France in the west and the Ottomans in the east as enemies the Empire is still a force to be reckoned with and with the Lutheran heresy threatening the unity of the faith the bond between Emperor and Pope is stronger than ever. On the other hand the Swiss have quickly adopted the new faith and could prove powerful allies just as they are fearsome enemies. The position of France in this remain unclear. They seem eager to deliver a blow to the Emperor by supporting Ulrich, but France is still a catholic monarchy and might be reluctant to support a full scale protestant uprising.

A decision must be made: Stay true to the Emperor and face war with the Swiss and Ulrich von Württemberg, or adopt Lutheranism and wage war on the Empire together with them?

[Turtler]

95 Reasons for War (Swabian League)

You are the Captain of the Swabian League, controlling most of south-western Germany after Ulrich, the former duke of Württemberg, had been exiled with your help. He has since fled to Switzerland and adopted Lutheran faith. Reports indicate that he has gathered sufficient Swiss support to return and retake his duchy, by force if need be. Meanwhile the Emperor is propagating his motto of "One Empire, One Faith, One Emperor" and is counting on your help to keep the southern parts of the Empire true to him and the Pope. However, the population is unrestful. There are rumours of peasants preparing uprisings, many people seem to favour the Lutheran view, especially among the lesser nobility that would welcome a way to get rid of the regular tributes demanded by the church. Nevertheless the majority still sticks to Catholicism. Moreover, even with France in the west and the Ottomans in the east as enemies the Empire is still a force to be reckoned with and with the Lutheran heresy threatening the unity of the faith the bond between Emperor and Pope is stronger than ever. On the other hand the Swiss have quickly adopted the new faith and could prove powerful allies just as they are fearsome enemies. The position of France in this remain unclear. They seem eager to deliver a blow to the Emperor by supporting Ulrich, but France is still a catholic monarchy and might be reluctant to support a full scale protestant uprising.

A decision must be made: Stay true to the Emperor and face war with the Swiss and Ulrich von Württemberg, or adopt Lutheranism and wage war on the Empire together with them?

First and foremost, find a way to take an axe or dagger to the head of Ulrich von Württemberg. As long as he remains alive and active he is a threat to the power, safety, and integrity of the Swabian League and his affiliations with France and Switzerland are highly dangerous. Ergo, he must be reconciled or eliminated, and as we have little reason to believe he will allow the former we should count on the latter. Taking him out of the equation will remove the major justification for war the Swiss have and most likely stave off heavy conflict for now.

Once he is dead- if not before- begin sounding out oppertunities and decisions. Even if we are sympathetic to Catholicism, the tithes to the Pope are a nuisance and diversion of funds that could/should be used by us. Ergo, start petitioning the Emperor and/or Pope to waive or lower the church tithes with the logic that they will remove a dangerous source of instability and popular motivation for joining Lutheranism, adding "incentive" by refusing to collect them gradually or not enforcing their collection. In addition, (as we will point out to the Emperor) it will make the Pope more dependent on Imperial authority. Having his finances and tithes come not from the people but from imperial middlemen like ourselves will only strengthen Imperial control over church as well as state.

What we will not point out but find more important is that it strengthens the centralized power, authority, and autonomy of the Swabian League by removing a competing source of authority and power. It will allow us to transition away from the present confederacy with less than absolute control both above and below by asserting dominance over the commoners and their funds using the carrot of removing Catholic taxation, and in doing so will give us that much more flexibility- both to use the funding and resources freed up by the removal of the income bleed, and to shift allegiance from the Pope if need be. Using these resources, we will extend league power over the Rhine and any other (especially German) territories we can on any pretext we deem fit, claiming to be reasserting imperial authority/Catholic power/removing internal destabilization/what have you.

Of course, any threats or attempts at insurrection will be crushed.

More importantly, we open up diplomatic channels with the French and Swiss on one hand and with the Imperials on the other, to see what they have to offer us. Previous track records against the French and especially the Swiss are not promising, and while we must prepare so that next time goes better we should avoid outright conflict if it does not benefit us. A difficult task to be sure, but it can probably be done if we handle matters carefully enough. On the other hand, we press the Emperor to see just what powers and privledges we can extract from him as The Protectors of The Catholic Faith and Empire in the Southwest. And then we act accordingly.

If he provides sufficient incentive for our power in the Southwest and the Rhine as well as for possible expansion into Switzerland and other parts of Germany, we will most likely not rock the boat and instead seek war on the free (/non-imperial) states of Switzerland and Italy in order to expand Imperial (read: our) power. If he refuses, we will consider breaking with him even if not necessarily with Rome, and shifting our alliance towards at least France and possibly our Swiss rivals while preying on Imperial fiefdoms.

If it comes to that, we can consider- amongst other things- competing with the Swiss to replace them in French service, re-alligning with the Pope and claiming to support him against Imperial centralization, and/or converting to Lutheranism. But in the end, we would play it by ear.

(PS: As always, add any feedback or thoughts, and if you like + Rep!)

[Iskar]

Very interesting thoughts. You really consider most if not all aspects of the situation, I like that.

Now, if you do it that way you might get the following reaction: Suppose you actually accomplish getting rid of Ulrich. Then the Swiss remain in an uneasy waiting stance, lurking on your borders.
The Pope, however, is not willing to lower the tithes. On the contrary, he is forced to even increase his affluence by the massive sale of indulgences in order to finance his latest building project - a new basilica of St. Peter, drafted by Michelangelo himself. The Emperor needs the Pope in Italy to keep the French at bay is equally unwilling to ignore the church's demands. Meanwhile your continued allegiance to the Emperor is not leaving you much freedom to expand your holdings as you see fit yourself, since the Emperor is continuously calling on your troops to assist him against the French, the Ottomans and the Swiss. Fighting under imperial banners perhaps only a full scale invasion of the Swiss cantons offers an opportunity for territorial gains.

[Turtler]

Very interesting thoughts. You really consider most if not all aspects of the situation, I like that.

Thank you; I am flattered. But likewise, I must say you really do have a knack for churning out fascinating situations for me and anyone else who is interested to talk about.

Now, if you do it that way you might get the following reaction: Suppose you actually accomplish getting rid of Ulrich. Then the Swiss remain in an uneasy waiting stance, lurking on your borders.

Good. That is what we were hoping for. So while we send our own troops to lurk uneasily at *their* borders, it will give us time to centralize control over Württemberg, deal with our objectives elsewhere, and generally gear up for what lies ahead.

The Pope, however, is not willing to lower the tithes. On the contrary, he is forced to even increase his affluence by the massive sale of indulgences in order to finance his latest building project - a new basilica of St. Peter, drafted by Michelangelo himself. The Emperor needs the Pope in Italy to keep the French at bay is equally unwilling to ignore the church's demands.

If the Pope is not willing to lower the tithes and the Emperor is not willing to ignore the Pope's demands, we will do it for them. At least to the extent we can afford without going into open hostilities. We stop or at least strongly restrict the collection of the church tithes, appealing that the situation forces us to. After all, we are the vanguard of the Catholic faith in the region, as established by the Emperor and Pope themselves. If they doubt our bonafides, we just bring them the head of John the Bap-err, Ulrich von Württemberg. But we say that the threat of Lutheran subversion (likely backed by oh-so-insideous French and Swiss support) could and would capitalize on the imposition of Church tithes to endanger the entire bulwark of the faithful in the region. Furthermore, it also is a drain on our economy that makes it harder to contribute to the war efforts *the Emperor and Pope want us to engage in* in Italy and at home.

Just like the Emperor needs the Pope in Italy to keep the French at bay, if anything the Pope needs the Emperor more to do the same. And apparently the Emperor wants us. So the Pope can decide whether he wants to get a fancy basilica faster, or more Landsknechts to counter the French and their Swiss auxiliaries.

Meanwhile your continued allegiance to the Emperor is not leaving you much freedom to expand your holdings as you see fit yourself, since the Emperor is continuously calling on your troops to assist him against the French, the Ottomans and the Swiss. Fighting under imperial banners perhaps only a full scale invasion of the Swiss cantons offers an opportunity for territorial gains.

The former is the bigger problem than the latter. We are largely mercenaries so- for the time being until we can build up and centralize enough- mercenary contracts will be our bread and butter. Likewise, the Swiss are our main competition so the problem is likely not going to go away even if we did convert religiously, since it's both pragmatic (we want money, we want the same contracts to get money; we want more power) and ideological (we're entrenched feudal aristocrats who live or die by authoritarian control; the Swiss are mostly commoners who are relatively liberal. And thus are a threat to ourselves). It's the former that is a problem.

In the short term, trading allegiance to the Imperial (Mutant) Adler for allowance to consolidate our current gains, make them against soft targets not protected by the Empire, and get what support we can is worthwhile. In the long term, we will need to change that and move away from dependency on the Habsburg crown. Which is why contact with the Swiss and French- and other forces outside the Habsburg realm- is so important. To possibly receive aid when the time comes. So for now we bide our time, fight proxy wars with the Swiss far afield to try and whittle down their numbers and test our strength for any major confrontation (while trying to stave off major confrontation), eat any Imperial minor in the neighborhood who gives us a good excuse that we can sell to the Kaiser, pit the Emperor, Pope, and Franco-Swiss against each other to maximize our power and authority, and generally move up the food chain bit by bit.

With luck, by the time a major conflict emerges we should have begun the transition from loose league-confederacy to a united, centralized power. One that can shift its' agenda and ties as it sees fit.

[Iskar]

+ rep for you, Turtler. Adding reputation was finally enabled for me (guess it's a post number threshold preventing random new accounts from spamming rep points.)


Also, as we're nearing the release, there will be only one more scenario, involving the Republic of Florence.