[Ideas] Next Mod: Balkans

[Sebidee]

Thanks, Abot. It's good then that we found out that was a Thessalian horseman. But the baynik coukd make a good medium horseman.

Do you mind if I steer this thread more towards the Illyrians? I feel as if they haven't gotten much attention.

[Dangerman]

I think the Dacians (or Getae at least) could get a Sword counterpart (not noble) to the armored Spearmen if there's any historical basis (or have them as a late-game unit/WI type) for them.

Didn't Dacia have a lot of Iron resources compared to the likes of Gaul?

[Sebidee]

Did they have better iron resources? Earlier posts have said that they work very little armour.

[Darios]

I can confirm Abot's translations as being correct.

Concerning the Illyrians, I believe that they are the biggest victim of the DLC. I find it fascinating that we got a "Greek City States" and a "Nomadic Tribes" cultural pack but the Daco-Thracians had to be rebranded to something "cool" like "Pirates and Raiders" to help sales. The Illyrians were pirates yes, but this ignores an important component of their culture, and for some strange reason the archtypical Illyrian soldier - the peltast, does not exist in the game.

I like the current Illyrian rosters for the most part because they did have their coastal levies, light hoplites, and inferior cavalry, but they're in dire need of Illyrian Skirmishers and units bearing sicas.

Did they have better iron resources? Earlier posts have said that they work very little armour.

Yes, the Dacians had plenty of iron and gold reserves but that does not mean that they all ran around in heavy armor. As I have mentioned earlier, the Dacians preferred to have a light, nimble army that could ambush, kill as many people as possible, then retreat back into their fortresses in the mountains. Only the most elite troops would have wore any significant armor.

[Abot_]

For some reason it is a lot more difficult to find information about the Illyrians than it is about the Thracians. This is what I have managed to find so far (more big spoilers):

http://z14.invisionfree.com/AlbanianLibrary/ar/t20.htm, examples:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

More pictures on the website.

http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?topic=247632.0, examples:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

More in the thread.

[Dude with the Food]

I noticed the thread I posted in disappeared. Do you still have my suggestions or do you want me to repost them?

[Sebidee]

I noticed the thread I posted in disappeared. Do you still have my suggestions or do you want me to repost them?

Sorry about that, I deleted that post because it wasn't needed. This forum itself is still a work in progress and I'm still trying to figure out how it should be laid out.

I still have the post on the deleted thread. Here are your relevant units in it



Odrysia

Thracian Spearmen - Thrace lack basic spearmen. That's it.
Thracian Hoplites - Thracians were influenced by the Greeks and it stands to reason that not every warrior is a peltast or horseman.
Odrysian Royal Hoplites - See above and this site. Also, it shows Odrysia developing into an organized nation. They don't necessarily have to use outdated hoplons.
Odrysian Pikemen - The organized nation thing again wars with Macedon. Probably the least realistic unit there.
Odrysian Lancers - It's cited repeatedly that Thracians were excellent horsemen and if you believe the theory they orginally migrated from the Steppes due to pressure from the Scythians then some influences may have worn off.
Sica Swords - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sica
Tribal Hunters - Finally into the raider part. Archers or peltasts possibly also guerilla.
Tribal Cavalry - Light cavalry.
Tribal Bow Cavalry - Unarmoured but very fast.





Ardiaei

Coastal Peltasts - Peltasts were common in Illyria and I'm surprised they were left out of their roster.
Noble Peltasts - Armoured peltasts, possibly in mail. Less javelins than most skirmishers but double as defensive infantry.
Thureos Raiders - Spearmen with decent charge/attack. Low overall stats made up for using proper boats instead of transports and being recruitable in ports.
Illyrian Swordsmen - A non-spear melee unit because Illyrians didn't lack this type of weapon like they do in-game. Check the sica page again.
Slave Spearmen - In line with the other peltast units.




Getae

Lance Horsemen - Dacians, and specifically the Getae, were great horsemen often having to fight on the Steppes so why shouldn't there be a lighter version of the Noble Horsemen?
Heavy Bow Horsemen - As above.
Heavy Spear Horsemen
Armoured Falxmen - I don't need to say anything here do I?
I think the Dacians have been well covered on a historical basis other than cavalry after the heavy skirmishers CA added so I'm not sure what else you'd put in that would make them generic which is why I struggled finding more than these.

[Falcor]

I had trouble making some of the letters and was just using memory. I was thinking that the Ardieai too since we have a lot covered with ewok's mod to fill in some stuff and work from, actually one of his spear units has a guy with white plumage in his helmet that isn't far off from Illyrian. http://www.pinterest.com/steliosvastardi/illyrians/ I've read that they were similar to Macedon militarily, of the Balkans they are the most likely to have hoplites.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrian_weaponry If they don't have them chariots were used by groups other than the Ardiaei and they may have been widespread but none have been found, just reliefs and votive statues. I should look at the vanilla roster. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrian_warfare Interesting..

[Falcor]

Definitely peltasts because Macedon hired them to do just that in their army. Also the Thika, will have to use a falcata or kopis or what ever curves the most. Much like the falx it curves around the shield to hit the back. They liked bows. More on spears for hoplites in weapons, boar spear. I would consider the chariot because it would be interesting and it is entirely possible. The Galatians used chariots and they passed through the Balkans. Not sure what ambush route to take. The clubs have a historical reference but I'm sure there's more.

Biephi is Dacia, in case you didn't know. Odrysian-Getae- and Biephi can confederate to Daco Thracian.

I like the clubs Abot mentioned before and they sounded sneaky, also a bonus against spears would be interesting. Some of these could be in Odrysia and Getae. Are you doing Tylis? They are more balanced. Can the Ardiaei confederate?

Ah it was Crawe1:

The Thyni. They appear to have been some sort of club-wielding night-fighters. Maybe a good scare unit.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thyni.

You might not be interested in clubs or chariots or having some units in more than one faction. The Biephi were often allied with the Scordisci(SP?) and Bastarnae.

[Sebidee]

Tylis won't be part of this mod since they are Gallic. They will instead be included with the other Gallic factions.

[crawe1]

Not sure if you've seen, Sebidee, but the Conflictus Antiquarum Culturarum team is doing some interesting work on these factions. Obviously, they've got their own vision and you've got yours, but from a research point of view it might be worth checking out:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...Daco-Thracians
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...yrian-Factions

[Falcor]

Sent PM Sebidee. Are we giving the Ardiaei what other Illyrians had too, to represent them? I think they should have thowing spears and slingers and just really good bowmen with abilities. I don't think their cavalry was weak, just based on what they stole and maybe mercenary units.
The odrysian lancers should be pretty much equal to Macaedon and no more than 5 point different in a category.
The Getae and more could have poison arrows.

[Sebidee]

I sent you a pm this morning Falcor, did you get it?

[Killergold88]

I feel the Thracian Factions represented here (Odrysian Mainly) is very under "Greek". They were ruled by Lysimachus after all (A Diadochi) until about 280 BC... So the Thracian Tribes that are in Rome 2 have literally only established themselves (again) for maybe 10 years. I think they would still have a very heavy Diadochi influence. I cant be certain because I never really researched it, just a thought process.