Curious question; unit limits puzzle me?

[Dangerman]

As the title says I am puzzled why for example do Royal Greek Pikemen (forgot the actual Greek name) for Eygpt and Epirus have a 5-unit limit while the likes of Silver-Shield Pikemen a 2-unit limit? Is there a historical reason for it? Weren't the Silver-Shields practically main-line infantry and not limited elite? Or most of the playable factions' elite top cavalry having a 5-unit limit.

Was this for historical reasons or gameplay balancing?

[Matmannen]

Can't comment on all elites, but for starters all elites must be limited. To have armies of all noble swords or royal bodyguards is just stupid and the game should make it impossible. Now the Argyraspides were really a group of Hypastistai (Shield bearers) who had shields with silverplating (The Hypaspistai in Philip II:s army were high status soldiers). The Argyraspides followed Alexander to the far indus, after his death they were all old but they were well respected among the Diadochi thanks to their experience and veterency.

At the battle of Raphia the Argyraspides are recorded to have been positioned to the right of the king which suggests that they were infact bodyguards...

[Dangerman]

Can't comment on all elites, but for starters all elites must be limited. To have armies of all noble swords or royal bodyguards is just stupid and the game should make it impossible. Now the Argyraspides were really a group of Hypastistai (Shield bearers) who had shields with silverplating (The Hypaspistai in Philip II:s army were high status soldiers). The Argyraspides followed Alexander to the far indus, after his death they were all old but they were well respected among the Diadochi thanks to their experience and veterency.

At the battle of Raphia the Argyraspides are recorded to have been positioned to the right of the king which suggests that they were infact bodyguards...

Oh I agree elites (though cavalry like the Companion ones or Gallic Noble seem tad too generous) should be limited rather than seeing entire armies having royal bodyguards but I didn't know that the Argyraspides were likely to be elite bodyguards of the King. Though i kinda want to do a Seleucid Divide Et Impera campaign and was figuring out what kind of set-up for Thorax reforms (do Hypastistai go away with Seleucid Thorax reforms and get replaced by the Royal Thorax Swordsmen?) I want to go with.

[A_I]

Principes in Romans legion is not "elite" and still they are reduced to 5 units...

[Dangerman]

Principes in Romans legion is not "elite" and still they are reduced to 5 units...

I think that was to represent that the Principes (and Triarii) were behind the Hastarti because IIRC Roman Military had the young ones (mostly throwing Pila at the enemy and cursing words) gaining the glory while the elders were behind them (Rome wasn't that civilized as romanticized though that is another subject).

[KAM 2150]

Principes in Romans legion is not "elite" and still they are reduced to 5 units...

Limited per army, not per nation. It represents Roman army compostiion. If you don't like it, then you can simply transfer units from one army to another.

[antred]

Limited per army, not per nation. It represents Roman army compostiion. If you don't like it, then you can simply transfer units from one army to another.

While this is true, it does make me wonder what the point of those unit caps is in the first place.

[Matmannen]

While this is true, it does make me wonder what the point of those unit caps is in the first place.

It is there to represent the historical army compositions (when in history were there ever an army consisting of only nobles and royal bodyguards), if you don't like ti there is Radius mod you can play...

[antred]

It is there to represent the historical army compositions (when in history were there ever an army consisting of only nobles and royal bodyguards), if you don't like ti there is Radius mod you can play...

Why would I go play Radious? Was that a dig? :p

Anyway, my point was if you're going to make unit caps, make them mandatory or just don't bother. A cap that isn't really a cap (since it can be circumvented) is pointless.

[KAM 2150]

While this is true, it does make me wonder what the point of those unit caps is in the first place.

It was left for all those cyring people about unit caps. If you don't want to cheat and abuse it then simply don't use it... Is it not obvious?

[KAM 2150]

It is not pointless and you can't rescrict it. No one makes anyone go above the system. If someone is mature he won't cheat, unless he simply does not like the unit cap system. It is a matter of only someones will to obey the rules.

[zonks40]

It is not pointless and you can't rescrict it. No one makes anyone go above the system. If someone is mature he won't cheat, unless he simply does not like the unit cap system. It is a matter of only someones will to obey the rules.

I agree, even with Rome 1 it required some "in house rules", for Rome 2 DEI, to put myself on a more level playing field with the AI, I never choose General traits which increase unit stats or chevrons other than Morale, I never build temples that increase unit chevrons, never use champions with armies, the only way my units achieve any experience is through combat, it's amazing how much more you value the experienced troops, and it increases the game difficulty.

[A_I]

I understand this and in Rome composition is very good move same as elite units need to be limits...

silly will be full stack of first cohorts... xD ...

Same with elite... or mass or elite...


Good move...cheers

[KAM 2150]

Yes, thanks It is simple, you want army caps, you stick to them, you don't like them or do not agree with them, then you go above it. Personal choice.

[Xubarku]

Curious, do unit caps for armies have any effect on AI? As in, does this help the AI build more balanced, structured armies, or is that completely controlled in other ways?

[rjacko10]

I would just like to add I've just had my first experience with unit caps and I was not aware that swapping units between armies got around the cap. I have probably cheated unintentionally. How many naked spearmen am I allowed per Suebi army? I've got 5 in the at the mo...

I wish it was mandatory because I then I wouldn't have to manually keep track of every limit for each capped unit all the time.

[Dangerman]

I would just like to add I've just had my first experience with unit caps and I was not aware that swapping units between armies got around the cap.i

Didn't know that, gotta try that for my Seleucid campaign.