Nerfing Of Heavy Cavalry

[VaeVictis]

I remember reading early on of CA's intention of making cavalry less effective as they were in previous games.

Playing the demo reminds me of this as it seems mounted units dont last very long.

Judging from the importance of the mounted knight in Medieval warfare, how do you feel about this?

[Shazbot]

Well of course mounted knight were usually good fighters, but in a prolonged fight against foot soldiers, their mountedness only makes them less effective.

[verena xeventus]

Bah! Heavy cavalry should be stronger than they were in RTW especially as this is Medieval - when cavalry was at its peak.

[Shazbot]

Bah! Heavy cavalry should be stronger than they were in RTW

Stronger? Medium Roman cavalry were devastating. If anything, cavalry power should be less.

[Hodor]

It depends.

A single unit of cavalry was pretty weak in Rome. However, when combining multiple cavalry units into one giant "stampede", even light cavalry was able to easily ride down any group of infantry before they could strike back. This was, however, not the way it was intended, and the developers have apparently tried to remove this phenomenon (which they call "blobbing").

In the demo, cavalry seems to work more like did in MTW or the RTR mod for Rome - the initial charge is devastating, but in a melee, the cavalry will lose to heavy infantry.

Yes, the cavalry might seem a bit weak in the Agincourt mission, but then again, look at the experience levels of your units and compare them with those of the French.
In Pavia, you probably get a much better impression of the effectiveness of cavalry. Yes, charging straight into a row of pikepoints will get you killed pretty quickly, but using your cavalry to flank the enemy (keep them occupied with heavy infantry, then charge into their rear) can be devastating. And sometimes, against small, lightly armored units (such as the French Voulgiers) you can simply crush them with a head-on charge (killing most of their men and destroying their morale), routing them before they can effectively retaliate in melee.

[Gazi Husrev-Beg]

Bah! Heavy cavalry should be stronger than they were in RTW especially as this is Medieval - when cavalry was at its peak.

Have you played BI...ven most elite saxon troops get owned by medium roman cavalary, even when they didnt charge!Cavalary in RTW completly owned, but than they were tanks of their time...

[Cadmium77]

Bah! Heavy cavalry should be stronger than they were in RTW especially as this is Medieval - when cavalry was at its peak.

It would be rather perverse if the heavy cavalry of the medieval Goths with their new fangled stirrups were to be less powerful in the charge than the lighter antique Roman cavalry without stirrups which really hadn't reached the west yet.

[the_mango55]

It would be rather perverse if the heavy cavalry of the medieval Goths with their new fangled stirrups were to be less powerful in the charge than the lighter antique Roman cavalry without stirrups which really hadn't reached the west yet.

But they screwed up the cavalry in Rome, they were far too powerful.

It is true that in the Medieval period cavalry was more powerful and important, but just because they screwed up RTW doesn't mean they should have to screw up M2TW just to maintain continutiy. M2TW is a time for a fresh start, to make cavalry work well, and forget about how it was in Rome.

[thomonkey]

ya. Im hoping that if someone builds a cavalry heavy army they get ruled by a balanced army.

[Gazi Husrev-Beg]

Yes...they relied heavy on initiall charge,especially after apperence of plate armour, breaking enemy formation best case scenario....infantry follows, and cavalary charges again from behind.Or they charge, move out quickly, charge again...repeat until successfull
Demo was scripted...so seeing heavy Frankish cavalary slaughtered by heavy billmen is no suprise...

[thomonkey]

i hope cavalry are seriously nerfed, or if not, they should be very rare and expensive to train.

[Gazi Husrev-Beg]

Good point Hodor...I mostly used Cavalary to flank and chase routing units...rarly I used Heavu Cavalary, only on non spear units...

[turtle]

Yes I hope the cavalry are nerfed, to an extent. The medievil cavalry should definately be crushing in a well followed through charge, but once the charge is over, despite stirups, cavalry in any melee with unshaken infantry will be slaughtered. So, I hope the cavalry has the power to ride over a lot of infantry, but not to fight in close combat.

[nameless]

I remember reading early on of CA's intention of making cavalry less effective as they were in previous games.

Playing the demo reminds me of this as it seems mounted units dont last very long.

Judging from the importance of the mounted knight in Medieval warfare, how do you feel about this?

Depends, the problem with the historic battles is that the unit count varies and isn't consistent (for example the french dismounted knights have roughly 70-100 while you only have 70).

However, 2 units of Billmen were slaughtered by two french mounted knights so I dunno. I'd say their pretty powerful if used correctly.

[Talbaz]

well lets not forget that the battle of stirling bridge was the first(i could be wrong) defeat of a froce useing heavy cavalry against a froce that did not use it in the medieval pierod. this is the hayday fo cavalry from what i saw in the demo it was overnerfed Heavy cav should own the crap out of everthing in that charge where talking Chargers here horse that are huge bredd to charge lines with stirups and such heavy inf should slow down heavy cav but not beat it (unless there equip with pike spears or bills)

[the_mango55]

well lets not forget that the battle of stirling bridge was the first(i could be wrong) defeat of a froce useing heavy cavalry against a froce that did not use it in the medieval pierod. this is the hayday fo cavalry from what i saw in the demo it was overnerfed Heavy cav should own the crap out of everthing in that charge where talking Chargers here horse that are huge bredd to charge lines with stirups and such heavy inf should slow down heavy cav but not beat it (unless there equip with pike spears or bills)

Well, both of the battles in the demo are after stirling bridge, and especially at Pavia, which takes place at a time when heavy cavalry is no longer the king of the battlefield but more of a support unit.

I just hope that the game isn't going back to the old scissors-paper-rock method.
Calvalry > Archers
Archers > Spearmen
Spearmen > Calvalry
Swordmen = "specialist fighters"

Why, the RPS method has worked well

And it's more like:
swords beat spears
cavalry beats swords
spears beat cavalry

With archers outside the rps format:
archers beat infantry
cavalry beat archers

[Dragosani]

I just hope that the game isn't going back to the old scissors-paper-rock method.
Calvalry > Archers
Archers > Spearmen
Spearmen > Calvalry
Swordmen = "specialist fighters"

[Matty_P]

regardless, i believe that the devs missed the mark on cavalry this time around.

they seem ultra weak.

and a great flaw within the series is that the units within a cav unit die. in actuality, wasn't it the case the the mount died and the knight could still fight...usually?

i think that if this could be implemented it would help make cavalry more...better?

[Anaea]

regardless, i believe that the devs missed the mark on cavalry this time around.

they seem ultra weak.

and a great flaw within the series is that the units within a cav unit die. in actuality, wasn't it the case the the mount died and the knight could still fight...usually?

i think that if this could be implemented it would help make cavalry more...better?

You mean have the knight become a foot knight upon dismount? The problem would be his stats and the fact that his unit is across the field while he's running to catch up lol forgive me if I misunderstood

[Shazbot]

and a great flaw within the series is that the units within a cav unit die. in actuality, wasn't it the case the the mount died and the knight could still fight...usually?

i think that if this could be implemented it would help make cavalry more...better?

While a good idea, I think that having a unit of knights unmounted and mounted would cause needless micromanaging. And say a mounted knight loses his horse and the unmounted knights are far away, does he have to run all the way to where they are?