Amphibious invasion issue - Not enough space on beach to land all troops

[antred]

I've just defended Brundisium from a sea-borne attack from 3 Spartan armies and 1 Egyptian fleet. Due to the usual AI insistence on blobbing up its entire army before one gate, defeating the ground troops was easy enough. Unfortunately since there wasn't enough space for the AI to beach all its ships, a good 20 or so ships are still sitting out there in the water doing nothing whatsoever. Since they won't come to me and I have no way of getting to them, I can't finish the battle.

[Phil2]

Yeah, that's an issue i've already noticed.
Don't remember wich town i was invading, but couldn't beach 3/4 of my boats because of ennemy garrison boats already on beach...

I much prefer coming from land now

Don't know how it could be solved by team though.

[antred]

Don't know how it could be solved by team though.

Yeah, I kind of figured. :-\

God, there are so many issues that make it painfully obvious that CA didn't spend 10 seconds' thought on most aspects of the game when they designed it.

[Crappy]

This is why I always make sure to enable the 60 minute battles option when I start my campaign. I have yet to see a battle take that long normally, and it's been helpful for these kind of things

[Phil2]

That's a good idea. I think the battle length/duration box option is avalaible even during campaign.

[luck_ponte]

That's a good idea. I think the battle length/duration box option is avalaible even during campaign.

Actually it is. Is in the game settings in the campaign map, along with the battle difficulty ;D

[Fozzie]

Shoot, I make my battles time limitless.

[TheOrangeProject]

Until CA makes battle maps modable or change some basic things about naval land battles, i will never use a limitless timer

[icerunner5326]

Yeah, the ships not fitting on the beach is ridiculous. Unfortunately I'm pretty sure this cannot be fixed by modding at present.

[Baltizar]

Is there not a way to make ships park next to an already beached ship and have the units jump on that ship to get to the land.

[antred]

Is there not a way to make ships park next to an already beached ship and have the units jump on that ship to get to the land.

I don't think so. At any rate, you'd still have to find a way to make the AI use this workaround.

[Phil2]

Or just take place of already empty ship...

[antred]

Or just take place of already empty ship...

Even if the human player could do that (which I don't think he can), the problem here is that the AI won't do it.

[Butan]

When there is no space left to land, the AI should notice and retreat all its ships.

Its not really problematic if someone invades with too much transports for the size of the battle map, they will just waste the movement points of their extra transports navies. It would be marginally better if the AI was able to calculate that and not send too many navies for one battle, but send one at a time only. The real problem is indeed the fact that when there is no free slots for ships, they just freeze and dont do anything...

Even the human player can be an and wait forever at sea actually but for the AI, I think the best workaround would be to make them be able to use the retreat function.

[antred]

Maybe amphibious assaults should just be modded out of the game altogether, seeing as CA has done its usual half-assed job in implementing them. I mean is it even realistic that large transports can just be beached like that pretty much anywhere? In real life, naval invasions would probably have gone through a sea-port with the facilities for loading and unloading large transport ships.

I really don't think armies would just run their transports aground and hop off like that.


P.S. I'm pretty sure someone is going to post a list of battles where precisely that happened, but was it generally the case or was it an exception?

[BassiveMollocks]

Maybe amphibious assaults should just be modded out of the game altogether, seeing as CA has done its usual half-assed job in implementing them. I mean is it even realistic that large transports can just be beached like that pretty much anywhere? In real life, naval invasions would probably have gone through a sea-port with the facilities for loading and unloading large transport ships.

I really don't think armies would just run their transports aground and hop off like that.


P.S. I'm pretty sure someone is going to post a list of battles where precisely that happened, but was it generally the case or was it an exception?

I personally love the feature, just not how it's implemented.

Personally, i'd vote to keep it in on the off-chance that CA give us battle-map modding tools. Because if DeI scrapped it, then later down the line CA gave those tools out, would DeI be too far gone to re-include naval landings?

[TheOrangeProject]

Maybe amphibious assaults should just be modded out of the game altogether, seeing as CA has done its usual half-assed job in implementing them. [...]

Yep.

The idea was great, but not the outcome. Actually i think it is even annoying sometimes.

For example: My army is set to defend a fort, grea thing, but surprise an enemy naval army supports the enemy aaand that's it for my fort. It can not that hard to make a map with a fort and water.

The naval battle over all is even worse (imo) than in Shogun2 - which also was not that great.

"Enter complain about naval battles here"

Those issues are the kind of i still think the game has massive design flaws which should not in the game in the first place.

[rjacko10]

I think transport ships should be taken out of the battle maps altogether.

If the transport ships are by land or a settlement then the units should start on land as reinforcements. This has the benefit of your cavalry unit being on horses!

If you are out at sea then they should simply be ignored (inc. auto-resolve calculations) and only the navy units can engage in combat. If you have an transports without a navy and you encounter an enemy navy then the only option is to flee or to be destroyed. Transport armies cannot initiate any attacks or blockade harbours.

I believe this would solve most problems and place more emphasis on navies and highlight the risk on sending entire armies on defenceless vessels across the sea. Only huge navies would pose problems in landing. But you don't often see stacks of navies...

...perhaps this is one for the DeI backburner...?

[Butan]

Depends BassiveMollocks.
DeI has scraped out some vanilla things, that then resurfaced, and some not. I would say it depends on if they just remove, or replace. If they replace, yes it would be probably too far gone.

If the only issue with naval landing is the paucity of slots and the bugged AI, I would say, let it stay: it is solved with the battle timer, and in multiplayer campaign you can take the AI seat.

[BassiveMollocks]

Depends BassiveMollocks.
DeI has scraped out some vanilla things, that then resurfaced, and some not. I would say it depends on if they just remove, or replace. If they replace, yes it would be probably too far gone.

If the only issue with naval landing is the paucity of slots and the bugged AI, I would say, let it stay: it is solved with the battle timer, and in multiplayer campaign you can take the AI seat.

I just think it'd be a shame to completely get rid of them, that's all.

The majority of problems I have with DeI right now AREN'T DeI's fault. Battle maps and siege maps. Nothing is designed for largest unit size, they all have the same cookie cutter layout (aside from a few river cities) and the fort maps! You're telling me Romans don't dig earthen ramparts and ditches, but build the same level of complexity of fort as the Iceni?! The amphibious landing isue is something that could be solved so easily if CA released the map modding tools which is why I'm against removing amphibious assaults mainly. Then again, why do I have any faith in CA?

As a related question, if map modding tools were introduced, I can only assume DeI would change the siege maps and fort maps. What unit size would these maps be made in mind with?


Also, Butan, you wouldn't happen to be crpg Butan would you? If Butan is a pop culture reference, I apologise, never heard of it.