'Star Wars' discussions

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Force Awakens was intentionally average and basically a copy of the Original Trilogy. Nothing in it is really that good or properly set up or explained. Which automatically should make it demoted to awful status. Though it has no rewatch value. I mean really nothing in it is good. Sure it was filmed competently but that is a really low standard. We are in a time when average is the new good.

[antaeus]

So in summary...

The original trilogy were hokey but fun...

The prequel trilogy were overly self indulgent, but contained a purposeful story arc.

The sequel trilogy didn't contain any sort of overarching story arc, and while had moments of fun, were too muddy of plot to ever enjoy.

Rogue One was probably the film high point, it bridges storylines well and stylistically fits in like a glove. Solo was fun, but Solo himself was unlikeable.

Other than Rogue One, it is the excellent series that are brining the world to life. Even if Fett is hitting us with the white saviour stick.

[Akar]

I definitely don't see it as a "white savior" story at all. He's learning just as much from the Tuskens as they are from him.

[antaeus]

I definitely don't see it as a "white savior" story at all. He's learning just as much from the Tuskens as they are from him.

For a really good white saviour narrative, there has to be a splash of noble savage.

The civilised character has to discover something new about themselves and their world through their living with the natives.

If you look at Jake Sully, Lt Dunbar, Lt Lawrence or Captain Algren... all of them have to strip down their civilised veneer through harsh experience to learn and accept native ways before they can then in turn lead them - they literally 'go' native. Now it's a nice twist to have a Maori/Mandalorian descended actor/character saviour. But it's a civilised saviour teaching the natives how to be better natives all the same.

Don't get me wrong. I still watch Last of the Mohicans on the regular, and this is still a great story. The white saviour/noble savage stories have great gravitas because they question what civilisation means. They might use a demeaning device to tell the story, but Fett is still kick-ass

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

lolwat?

*Polynesian savior

[antaeus]

lolwat?

*Polynesian savior

*shrug*

Whoever wears the business suit on the day...

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

For a really good white saviour narrative, there has to be a splash of noble savage.

The civilised character has to discover something new about themselves and their world through their living with the natives.

If you look at Jake Sully, Lt Dunbar, Lt Lawrence or Captain Algren... all of them have to strip down their civilised veneer through harsh experience to learn and accept native ways before they can then in turn lead them - they literally 'go' native. Now it's a nice twist to have a Maori/Mandalorian descended actor/character saviour. But it's a civilised saviour teaching the natives how to be better natives all the same.

Don't get me wrong. I still watch Last of the Mohicans on the regular, and this is still a great story. The white saviour/noble savage stories have great gravitas because they question what civilisation means. They might use a demeaning device to tell the story, but Fett is still kick-ass

In Last of the Mohicans the subtext is that the White colonizers are plundering and destroying the Americas. Magua only behaves the way that he does because he is copying the British and the French. He is called out for this. Hawkeye is not actually a White savior, he is technically the opposite, just that Chinkachgook took pity on him. The real heroes are Duncan and Chinkachgook for choosing to die. Magua is the villain because he wants to thrive on the blood of others. Ultimately Hawkeye and the colonists will be the winners because they have no interest in the conflicts of these peoples or crowns.

There is another example here. John Blackthorn from Shogun. Long criticized as being a White savior when in fact he doesn't save anything. He is probably the most helpless character in the series. Even his role is quite small in the grand scheme of things. Most if it is Lord Toranaga's doing. Blackthorn is always forced to overcome his prejudices, regardless of how morally justified he may be. He is forced to accept the customs and perspective of the Japanese. While his greatest dislike is not for the Japanese but for the Catholics. This is also somewhat challenged in the series.

Even in Dances With Wolves the protag is pretty useless. He spends most of the film making a fool of himself and getting captured by the army. The only real service he provides to the Sioux is bringing guns from the outpost so that they can fight off the Pawnee. Overall I agree. Unless it is too blatant the White savior is not actually a bad trope. Because usually the so called savior is forced to embrace the people that he supposedly is trying to save, or hate. This forces them to rethink their preconceived notions and rework themselves. In almost all examples the savages are presented as justified. While in a movie like Hawaii the protagonist is depicted as being a puritanical lunatic who is trying to fight against the forces of nature (and human nature).

[Derpy Hooves]

Wrong thread DELETE

[Halie Satanus]

Book of Boba Fett.
Ep2.

Not as good as the first episode, but still had some nice touches. Funny, Oda mentioned 'Dances with Wolves' as EP2 gives off strong DwW vibes. Wondering if we'll get an actual plot for present day [sic] or more of the Boba/Tuskan origin story.

[Akar]

Dude are you kidding me? I thought the second was even better!

I'm loving this.

[Wallachian]

I'm kind of getting tired of the Tusken storyline. Hoping Boba Fett didn't just stay on Tatooine and lived with the Tuskens for the 5 years between ROTJ and Mandalorian. That would be ridiculous.

[Halie Satanus]

Book of Boba Fett.

EP 3.

Best yet, I think. Nice mix of past (Tuskan) and present. Kind of looking forward to the resolve of the Tuskan arc, have a feeling a certain biker gang are going to have a very bad day.

Present has moved up a few gears, not sure about the gang on their chop shop hover mopeds. They look a bit too flash for the Star Wars universe, and pleading water poverty while looking like they stepped off a 'Tatooine pimp my ride and cyborg body parts' reality show, didn't feel right.

Krrsantan: is awesome, hope to see more of him/her.

The present the twins brought, have high hopes for some Boba riding into battle...

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

I will wait until all the episodes are out. That way I can remember each episode as part of one narrative and on this with 70% more efficiency.

For the record I like the idea of Boba Fett chilling out with Tuscan Raiders. I could probably watch an entire series of just that. Much like how in The Mandalorian I thought that the first two episodes were the best.

It goes down hill anytime they start doing boring episodic nonsense which is redundant to the plot. With episodic storylines seemingly copied from any popular 90's TV show like Buffy or Xena. Or any time they actually try to do a real story.

The only good episode in The Mandalorian season 2 was the one where Boba Fett was introduced. Some of season 2 was so redundant that it was giving the worst episodes of Highlander a run for their money.

My only concern is that they don't get Boba Fett right. The last thing I want is a complete nice guy Boba Fett. While he was a brutal bounty hunter he was also honorable. He didn't kill people for fun and he didn't go back on his word. But he wasn't exactly a chump either and didn't mind vaporizing someone if he felt justified in doing so.

[Akar]

When I read this I couldn't help but think of Oda

[conon394]

The only good episode in The Mandalorian season 2 was the one where Boba Fett was introduced

Sorry never ever ever seen the fandom for the guy a generic bounty hunter who died in space butt at the hands of a blind guy... Sorry I can believe that a Sith lord and emperor of galaxy can have a plan B but not BF or even Darth Maul - dead is dead.

---

My only concern is that they don't get Boba Fett right. The last thing I want is a complete nice guy Boba Fett. While he was a brutal bounty hunter he was also honorable. He didn't kill people for fun and he didn't go back on his word. But he wasn't exactly a chump either and didn't mind vaporizing someone if he felt justified in doing so.

From what do you get this?

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Sorry never ever ever seen the fandom for the guy a generic bounty hunter who died in space butt at the hands of blind guy... Sorry I can believe the a Sith lord and emperor of galaxy can have a plan B but not BF or even Darth Maul - dead is dead.

I didn't like the episode BECAUSE OF Boba Fett. It was just a cool episode. Boba Fett certainly added to it though. Especially because it was Temuera Morrison being a bad ass.

That said Boba Fett has been "alive" not long after Return of the Jedi. Even in the Expanded Universe he was alive and had his own book series. I don't remember the way in which he escaped the Sarlac Pit but the problem with "dead is dead" is that they stated in the film that the victims of the Sarlac were digested slowly over hundreds of years. So Boba Fett couldn't have died and it actually makes more sense to assume that he would have escaped. Especially given his vast arsenal inside of his suit.

The one that I did not understand was how Darth Maul was still alive after being split in half. George Lucas resisted attempts to bring back Maul. Not sure why he finally conceded during TCW. Although Maul was a high point in that series it was still dumb how overpowered he was for no reason. Contrary to popular belief Maul was never that powerful. Even Dooku significantly outclassed Maul. Apparently not on TCW though.

[Wallachian]

I don't get the hate for those bikers. Found episode 3 the best so far, happy to finally get over the whole Tusken storyline.

And yes, Boba Fett has been alive ever since the 1990s. Dengar saved him from the Sarlacc pit.

[Akar]

Bikes looked a bit cheesy but I still enjoyed the episode.

[ggggtotalwarrior]

Boba was even in the Jedi Knight games post-RotJ nearly 20 years ago.

[ggggtotalwarrior]

As someone who has pounded the table for the last couple years about how Favreau and Filoni were saving SW and should’ve been given the Sequels….. after watching episodes 2 and 3 I feel I almost have to recant those prior statements. Like…. I loved Mando S1 and even really liked S2, but this show is legitimately atrocious and feels like it was made by completely different people than those responsible for Mando. Fett and Shand don’t even feel like the same characters nor do they at all pay off the exciting teaser we got to end S2 of Mando.

OG Fett= A brooding, Clint Eastwood-esque Bounty Hunter who will do anything to get the job done
Mando Fett= The former who was shaped by the Sarlaac pit and clearly some experience with the Tuskens into a man with a greater code of honor who will honor his contracts while remaining an absolute killing machine

Rather than molding a portrayal of a Fett who is now pursuing a criminal empire based off this previous character work we are given a guy who plans entirely on gaining power on an absolute backwater through the power of “respect” without killing anyone, letting his would-be assassins go free and seemingly employing 7 people for the entirety of his palace.

Like there was so much potential here and even in the basic plot ideas but then it gets execution. Why the do you establish some criminal cyborg biker teens (interesting concept) then show us a bunch of pouty hipsters riding spotless bright colored Vespas on a desert planet while simultaneously stealing water to survive? They should’ve looked more out of Mad Max then whatever the that 10 mph chase was, and maybe showing us a chase on foot would’ve highlighted their cybernetic enhancements rather than making them pointless.

God ing damnit I’m so mad they ed this up too now. Please for the love of god stop letting Kathy Kennedy rape Star Wars’ corpse