Thread: 'Star Wars' discussions

  1. #4921
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  2. #4922
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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    IMO, the series is probably a better idea than "three feature-length films." At least in a series, there will at least be some character development. If this is done, the series will be very successful. Star Wars films may not be popular, but the universe is. They can still screw it up (e.g. Star Trek Discovery), but if they develop the characters and have a compelling story in the spirit of Star War, then it should resonate well with most fans.
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  3. #4923

    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

  4. #4924

    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    I would honestly kill for an awesome Vader TV show. A series where Vader deals with traitors and jedi in a manner that would make r/theempiredidnothingwrong cream? Yes please.

  5. #4925
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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    If they did it would probably be a hispter adaptation of the current Marvel comics. References to the prequel trilogy are really annoying, no doubt tonnes of that as well. Wimpy Anakin and nonsense Padme love story.

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  6. #4926

    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    I did enjoy some of the Vader comics though.

  7. #4927
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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    Depends on the comic. I only have the first series (Darth Vader), but not the latest one (Dark Lord of the Sith).
    The constant attempts to make Vader sympathetic by relating him to Anakin and Padme are so annoying. That whole Vader did it all for love is so incredibly stupid. Plus Anakin is not sympathetic in the first place, George made it very forced ().

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  8. #4928
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    The whole point of Episode VI’s ending was that Vader still had love in him though

    Anyway, that indie film was awesome
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    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Nope. There is nothing to suggest dramatically that his heart is giving out. His heart attack is a testament to how well he can recover from something like that.

  9. #4929

    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    I wish the current films didn't suck so much.

  10. #4930
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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    The whole point of Episode VI’s ending was that Vader still had love in him though

    Anyway, that indie film was awesome
    Which is one of the problems. Episode 3 is a retcon of sorts. In the original trilogy they state that Darth Vader was seduced by the Dark Side, not that he did it all to save his pregnant wife which he then strangled to death. The implication in Return of the Jedi is that Vader kills the Emperor to save his son. In the same video there is a vague hint that Leia actually knew her mother, so Episode 3 having Padme die in childbirth doesn't make sense. Also I'm pretty sure the Episode 6 novelization says as much.

    But my point is Vader is sympathetic in so far as he is willing to sacrifice himself to save Luke. Not a tragic emo teenager who became evil because he had a creepy and controlling obsession with Padme.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  11. #4931

    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    Eh, seduced by the dark side OR he saw that the dark side had the powers to save the one he LOVED (which keeps with the point that he still had love in him) so he was..... seduced by its powers? Semantics much?

    And the seduced by the dark side quotes are from characters in the universe that are not 100% in touch with the events and what was going on in anakin's head, including Obi Wan. And besides, they were telling his son that, could simply be keeping it, you know, simple.



    It actually makes sense. Anakin did all that at first to save Padme, but as he slew all those jedi and etc he continuously kept going further down in the dark side of the force path. Then padme died, and the only thing that could have hold him back was lost, so he plunged into it. Decades later, he finds out he's got a son and a daughter, and suddenly they make vader recover at least some feelings from his anakin past.

    After 3 decades of murder and killing, where he thought he had passed all the points of no return, crossed all the rubicons, he was granted the choice to do something for his son. And he took it. Hence, Luke "saved him"
    Last edited by Wulfburk; December 30, 2018 at 07:53 PM.
    Then, as throngs of his enemies bore down upon him and one of his followers said, "They are making at thee, O King," "Who else, pray," said Antigonus, "should be their mark? But Demetrius will come to my aid." This was his hope to the last, and to the last he kept watching eagerly for his son; then a whole cloud of javelins were let fly at him and he fell.

    -Plutarch, life of Demetrius.

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  12. #4932
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    Didn’t Vader always know Luke was his son?
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    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Nope. There is nothing to suggest dramatically that his heart is giving out. His heart attack is a testament to how well he can recover from something like that.

  13. #4933
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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    Vader didn't know until after Episode 4. Episode 5 it is the Emperor that tells him. He didn't seem to be willing to help Luke until the end of Episode 6. In Luke's conversation with Vader, it is Vader himself who says that it is too late for him and that he is bound to his master. Which not only implies that he has fallen too far but also that he is in effect a slave to Palpatine. But why is he a slave to Palpatine if he willingly turned to save Padme? In all of their conversations Vader never mentioned saving others as a motivation for joining the Dark Side, neither did Palpatine. Never did they actually say to Luke "join us and save your friends". But if it worked on Anakin then why didn't they use the same approach with Luke?

    There is also the fact that Padme dying in Episode 3 makes no sense. Leia remembers her mother and says that she was always sad. Which is a clear hint that Vader going evil had nothing to do with Padme and that he willingly abandoned her. In the Return of the Jedi novelization it says clearly that their mother died when they were small children.

    It is just a really dumb backstory for Darth Vader. As a young emo he gets tricked into being evil and then murders his wife anyway. Apparently the Dark Side turns you into a child with behavioral issues. Turning to the prequels for material on Darth Vader's backstory is wrong in every way. They should have just ignored it and moved on.

    Look at all the times they do it in the Marvel comics:
    "His vision of Padme almost gets Anakin back, but then she is brutally killed in front of him, showing that there is no way back. Anakin then gives up entirely on her, the Jedi, and every vestige of his old life, sealing his transformation into Vader"

    "Momin's helmet convinces Vader to help him open a portal to the afterlife, to be reunited with Padme."

    "Swayed by Palpatine's promise to help prevent the death of his pregnant wife, Padmé, Skywalker betrayed the Jedi and became the Sith Lord Darth Vader."
    Last edited by Lord Oda Nobunaga; December 30, 2018 at 09:16 PM.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  14. #4934

    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    Padme dying in revenge of the sith is the smallest of retcons. One single line of all the three original films is changed, of a fact that is not really of that much of an impact (leia knew her mother and she died when leia was 5 or so years old? Still adopted by the Organa and all that and still lives as leia organa, princess of alderaan / to / leia didnt meet her mother, she died in childbirth, and all remains the same).


    Vader says its too late for him, he in essence says he thinks he passed the point of no return long ago. Him saying that alone makes it look like he finally knows that all he did was not the right path. If he simply was seduced by the unlimited power of the dark side and wanted to simply become "stronger", why would he say anything like that? Wrong choices and circunstances that lead a confused anakin to the dark side ties a lot more with " its too late for me". And he didnt personally kill Padme.


    And turning to the prequels for material on darth vaders backstory is right, after all, its THE backstory, whether you like it or not. If they shoudnt focus on any of the backstory at all then its a different thing. Im not actually that of a fan of padme and anakin in the prequels, but the backstory actually made me enjoy the original trilogy much more, and Darth vader's part in return of the jedi as well.

    Edit:

    And the fact that there was no motivation in return of the jedi for luke to join the emperor other than "muh dark side" is a problem in return of the jedi, not from the prequels.

    While of course, Darth Vader not explaining in detail what happened to him doesnt mean that anything that he hasnt said did not happen. its in character dialogue that shoudnt be taken as complete truth, the same goes with in lore explanations of it, from other characters.
    Last edited by Wulfburk; December 30, 2018 at 09:25 PM.
    Then, as throngs of his enemies bore down upon him and one of his followers said, "They are making at thee, O King," "Who else, pray," said Antigonus, "should be their mark? But Demetrius will come to my aid." This was his hope to the last, and to the last he kept watching eagerly for his son; then a whole cloud of javelins were let fly at him and he fell.

    -Plutarch, life of Demetrius.

    Arche Aiakidae-Epeiros EB2 AAR

  15. #4935
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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    No it isn't? It is a major retcon because according to the prequels it is the actual reason Darth Vader turns to the Dark Side in the first place. If Padme survived years after Vader became evil then none of that works or was ever implied. It also means that Vader had no idea that Padme was pregnant, which makes his entire thought process for joining the Sith to be impossible. So obviously Anakin did so because he wanted power.

    My point is that Vader's turn had more to do with Palpatine than with Padme. He specifically mentions that he is bound to the Emperor. Earlier Yoda says to Luke "do not underestimate the Emperor's power, or you will become like Vader". It isn't just that Vader is evil, he simply is unable to turn against Palpatine.

    The prequel backstory sucks and is clearly a plot hole. But the whole time they have to keep reminding us about how sympathetic Vader actually is for some reason. That is not to say that Vader cannot be sympathetic, within reason, but that his wife died really shouldn't be the reason why. In addition to all the dumb stuff about Vader being Space Jesus. Then there is all that awful stuff about Anakin acting like he has special needs and strangling his wife for no reason. Never in the entire trilogy did Vader act like he was a special ed psycho.
    Last edited by Lord Oda Nobunaga; December 30, 2018 at 09:34 PM.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  16. #4936

    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    Ah, i get your point, never thought of it that way myself on the impact of that retcon, probably cause i didnt wait decades in between to watch the 2 trilogies, heh, but it makes sense now, though either way i personally do not think the plot of the prequels is bad, just their realization in the first two episodes mostly. Still though, you could say after padme dying it became all about the emperor, after all its the only person he knew that was left, basically, and from that point on their bond was solidified. And on the Emperor's power thing, well on the prequels anakin realized the sith lord manage to fool a couple hundred jedi, shroud their visions, whilst talking and doing stuff amidst them, so its enough reason i think for even anakin to take a step back and realize how strong the emperor is.
    Then, as throngs of his enemies bore down upon him and one of his followers said, "They are making at thee, O King," "Who else, pray," said Antigonus, "should be their mark? But Demetrius will come to my aid." This was his hope to the last, and to the last he kept watching eagerly for his son; then a whole cloud of javelins were let fly at him and he fell.

    -Plutarch, life of Demetrius.

    Arche Aiakidae-Epeiros EB2 AAR

  17. #4937
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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    The ROTS novelization did it better. Where Anakin was indeed tempted to join Palpatine for personal gain. But they still had to insert the Padme imminent death as the major reason why. But it doesn't work.

    Where as in these comics Vader is always crying about how he misses Padme. It just isn't a good look for Vader who is a Dark Lord of the Sith. This was certainly not what they had in mind when they made the Original Trilogy either. What makes Vader tragic is the man he has become, he was a hero but now he is a half man. Not that his wife died.
    Last edited by Lord Oda Nobunaga; December 30, 2018 at 10:27 PM.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  18. #4938

    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    Supposedly, Padme joins the Rebellion before I presume Vader catches up to her and kills her, and then probably instantly regrets it, whether that's before or after the lava bath.

    Vader does actually become a very complex character with the Prequels, whether Lucas intended this or not. Vader could have ended his servitude at any time, he chose, if he accepted the consequences of doing so, whether getting hunted down by the Empire, or seeing if he can throw a couple of twentys when he confronts the Emperor, and either successfully couping or crapping out.

    Why did he stay? Perhaps he saw that without the Empire, what remained of the Republic would descend into anarchy, and perhaps there really was a greater threat looming on the event horizon.

    Rumour has it that Disney is prepared to retcon somehow The Last Jedi; I suspect that they've always had a reboot in mind of the Originals in order to sell more merchandise, and keep a larger margin of it, but now, perhaps an entire revisioning might be contemplated.
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  19. #4939

    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions



    Recap.
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  20. #4940
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    Frick dismey
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    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Nope. There is nothing to suggest dramatically that his heart is giving out. His heart attack is a testament to how well he can recover from something like that.

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