'Star Wars' discussions

[Knight of Heaven]

So in news today, Kelly Marie Tran deleted her social media over the death threats and other insults she was getting from Star Wars fans.

I mean, I didn't like the movie, but what the hell is wrong with this fandom?

Ridiculous, people.

It's a fandom that's always been defined by manchildren being overly agressive about a trilogy of movies that are at best pretty ok, now they've manage to become even more virulent somehow what with the internet and seeping political undertones that tend to develop among manchildren.

Please Insert random professor Jordan Peterson youtube video, after this.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

It's a fandom that's always been defined by manchildren being overly agressive about a trilogy of movies that are at best pretty ok, now they've manage to become even more virulent somehow what with the internet and seeping political undertones that tend to develop among manchildren.


Ah well, Han Solo is fine btw, it's dumb fun but confused in it's tone and plotline and studio mangled. It's like Rogue one in that it's meh but you might find a little enjoyment out of it. The "twist" at the end is pretty cool, but also really dumb and I don't know what they are going for with it.
Lord Oda, you probably won't like it but I doubt you'll find it particularly offensive, you might even enjoy the end if you are into the Rebels show.

I mean I criticized Rebels for it's awful writing. I don't really want to watch Solo if it will fundamentally change my view of the established character. I personally don't want to throw Star Wars around like a cheap popcorn flick. Since Solo was not really a huge event I felt apprehensive about it. I'll get around to watching it at some point, probably.

Ridiculous, people.


Please Insert random professor Jordan Peterson youtube video, after this.

The clean your room guy? I don't get it.

This video?

[saxdude]

I've only ever tangentially heard of the guy (some :wub:) but that video was hilarious. I love the moon monolith theme, it's so ominous.

I mean I criticized Rebels for it's awful writing. I don't really want to watch Solo if it will fundamentally change my view of the established character. I personally don't want to throw Star Wars around like a cheap popcorn flick. Since Solo was not really a huge event I felt apprehensive about it. I'll get around to watching it at some point, probably.

Well I don't know if you care if I spoil it or not, but Han isn't fundimentally changed. He doesn't have much of a character arc and the movie somewhat diminishes his actions in the original, he's ostensibly a younger dumber Han. The acting was good but some of the decisions taken in the film scream of studio meddling. You'll like it if your willing to not give it too much thought, but there is a lot to pick apart.

Referring to the Rebels show, I've only seen clips and parts of it and I've liked what little I've seen, but my comment about the movies connection to the show is that it hints to a plotline of Rebels by way of a specific major character, but it basically amounts to a cameo (dunno if you want to know who).

[Knight of Heaven]

The clean your room guy? I don't get it.

This video?

lol the clean your room guy!!! btw that video is awesome.

Anyway star wars fandom, and manchilds...

I've only ever tangentially heard of the guy (some :wub:)

Yep, pretty much.

Referring to the Rebels show, I've only seen clips and parts of it and I've liked what little I've seen, but my comment about the movies connection to the show is that it hints to a plotline of Rebels by way of a specific major character, but it basically amounts to a cameo (dunno if you want to know who).

I liked rebels well enough. Not as good as clone wars, but generally speaking was as enjoyable. Also they had the balls to kill major character.

[the_mango55]

I've heard Rebels gets pretty good, but I watched the first 4 episodes and couldn't continue on after that.

First thing was the animation itself. It was such a significant downgrade from Clone Wars that I already could barely tolerate it.

But the main thing that made me stop watching it was the tone, and the inability to suspend my disbelief. Allow me to explain. In almost any movie or show you know, as an audience member, that the protagonist isn't gonna be gunned down by a nameless goon. However to make the story at all engaging you need to make sure you don't put the protagonists in a situation where the only logical outcome would be getting gunned down by nameless goons. And even more importantly, you need to make sure that the protagonists don't actually KNOW that they can't be killed by nameless goons.


Rebels fails both of these criteria. The heroes could be running from a half dozen stormtroopers, and instead of taking cover and picking them off while ducking from return fire, the hero will jump up on a table, totally exposed, and shoot a damn slingshot at them for 20 seconds while not a single stormtrooper managers to get off an accurate shot.

[Knight of Heaven]

Thats, just star wars.

[Kamos]

Honestly try episode 5. That's where they face their first actual threat, The Inquisitor, though the tone doesn't honestly get better until 13 for sure when Tarkin arrives.

[Påsan]

Eh Rebels are , there's a total of like 3 good episodes and the show ends on a low note. Everything good about rebels is when they pick up on Clone Wars plot points but they generally waste them.

[saxdude]

The only bits I've seen are those with Obi Wan and Maul, and i liked them well enough.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Heard Kathleen was stepping down from the Imperial throne... yay?

Eh Rebels are , there's a total of like 3 good episodes and the show ends on a low note. Everything good about rebels is when they pick up on Clone Wars plot points but they generally waste them.

This, this exactly.
The Obi-wan episode was good but it was only all of 3 minutes. Aside from that it was a copy of "Old Wounds".

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

It's a rumor, and it's unlikely.

Rebels is pretty good from seasons 2-4, but there's a lot of filler. Season 4 is straight plot and is like A+ grade right up until the last like 5 minutes, the very end of the last episode was kind of a Deus ex machina.

[Knight of Heaven]

Its the same as clone wars, witch was also full of filler i might add. So yes expect a lot of filler kiddy episodes, and some good ones in between. The reason i prefer the clone wars show, was mostly because of the set up, and premise, of full scale galactic war. The clones perspective was actually pretty nice to folow.
In rebels the whole premise is more contained. But it has its moments, specially with the arrival of thrawn.

I dont feel they wasted all of story lines they picked up from clone wars necessarily. They also had the pressure to ditty things as to not screw current canon and movie stuff. Imo.



Besides in Rebels we have freaking Vader unleashed in season 2 ( maul too). The inquisitors flying rotating blades was stupid though.

[alhoon]

I loved Rebels and I loved the Clone wars. I can say that I liked those two series more than most of the movies in the franchise.

[Kamos]

The Grand Inquisitor, Tarkin, Vader, Maul and boy howdy Thrawn make the show worth it.

[Common Soldier]

The Grand Inquisitor, Tarkin, Vader, Maul and boy howdy Thrawn make the show worth it.

All those are male, and I doubt will ever figure in Kathleen Kennedy's feminist agenda.

I saw the Hans Solo movie, and while not bad, it wasn't that good either, an ok film. I suspect that the film was pushed into the theaters as an attempt to compensate for the obvious female slant of the previous 3 Star Wars movies, where the male characters were just secondary supporting roles. If so, it seems to be a failure. Many of the long time Star Wars fans alienated by the feminist take of the recent Star Wars movies were indifferent to the Hans Solo film. People I know who were long time fans of Star Wars were undecided about even bothering to see the Hans Solo movie, where in a different reality under a different producer they would have been the first to see it.

Disney is good a making movies targeted for girls and women, such as Frozen, but I wonder about their qbility to make movies of similar caliber targeted to boys and men. I question if their gains in a female audience will offset their losses of a male audience. While the lackluster performance of Hans Solo probably won't get Disney to make major changes, if the next Disney Star Wars is also lackluster, then we might see some. Making they go back to concentrate on making a good movie on a decent budget, witn a good story insteading of concentrqting on the mechantdizing. The original Star Wars movied succeeded because it was inspired by classic time tested story telling, Campbell's "Hero with a Thousand Faces" greatly influenced Lucas.


(It wasn't that Hans Solo was bad, but it just wasn't that memorable. Even the music was forgetable, despite being written by John Williams.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Yeah the New Canon despite its attempts has a severe lack of quality female heroes or villains. Rae Sloane is at best okay, but suffers from poor writing from Chuck Wendig too. She's basically a mix of Daala and Isard, more or less.

But the EU had Isard, Daala, Lumiya, etc. as great female villains. Ventress and Aurra Sing were both much stronger in the EU as well.

[Morifea]

Oh yes, Ysanne Isard.... time to re-Read the X-Wing Books.

[Inhuman One]

Here's something I'd like to hear people's thoughts on. If you where the one writing the story for the sequel trilogy, what would it be like?
You are free to ignore everything from the EU and from the new movies, or keep what you like from it. And of course for any returning characters you need to keep their age in mind so it would need to take place pretty much the same time after Episode 6 as Force Awakens.

Who would be the protagonists?
Who are the main villains?
What is the main plot line?
What is a short summary of each of the three movies?

I'm curious to see how others would have gone about it and what kind of lead characters they'd assemble for that.
I'll kick things off with my idea for it.

The main protagonists are a trio:
-Ekira, A young female Zabrak padawan of Luke. She seems to be the weakest of his students, but is resourceful.
-John Solo, A son of Han and Leia who is force sensitive but takes after his father, he's a bounty hunter who hunts down remnant imperials, working for the new republic.
-Wilhelm Tarkin, A blonde grandson of Tarkin, who has a keen strategic mind and while mistrusted by many, he's the friend of young Solo.

The antagonists:
-Darth Larunda, An old mute Twi'lek woman as the new Sith lord. Strong in the force, she sought out Sith holocrons already during Palpatine's reign.
-Marius, A tall and tough young man, former top student of Luke who betrays him and becomes the apprentice of Larunda.
-Frederick Tarkin,A son of Tarkin, leader of the imperial remnants presumed to be dead, and uncle to young Tarkin.

Episode 7:
All seems relatively well in the new republic. Leia serves in politics, so far she refused the position of supreme chancellor. John captures who is believed to be the last leader of the imperial remnants. Han comes to help him along with Chewbacca, thinking John needs help but he doesn't and gets upset. Han however finds clues to something bigger in a transmission sent at this imperial base and brings that info back to decode it.
Luke is training new jedi at a small enclave with about twelve students. Marius keeps getting visions and is tempted with power by Larunda in his dreams. Ekira senses something terrible is about to happen and she flees the enclave. Luke goes after her and while he is away, Marius has an argument with another student and snaps. He slaughters them all. Luke senses it and rushes back but is too late. Marius is gone.
Ekira feels the worse is still to come. They go to Coruscant to warn Leia and the republic, the supreme chancellor won't hear it. An imperial fleet jumps out of hyperspace and attacks Coruscant, it is lead by Frederick Tarkin.
While Luke, Leia and Han are discussing what should happen with various leaders and are kept from action, Ekira is desperate to redeem herself and teams up with John and Wilhelm to fight in the defense in their ship. They board Frederick Tarkin's vessel, John's plan is to take out the commander to stop the war.
Wilhelm's loyalty is tested, and Ekira has to face Marius, who stands beside Frederick Tarkin and ignites a red lightsaber in addition to his green one.
The green saber gets destroyed in the fight, Ekira is almost killed but Wilhelm saves her, taking several lightsaber slashes to his body. They manage to get away but Coruscant is devastated and abandoned. The republic fleet shows up and allows Leia, Luke and the others to get away and plan their next move.

Episode 8.
Full out war between the new Sith empire and the New Republic. Leia becomes the new supreme chancellor, Ekira trains under Luke and shows good improvement. Wilhelm is now partially cybernetic and has earned his spot as a hero to the republic. Luke sets out to take out Marcus, Ekira wants to come with him but he does not allow it. John and Wilhelm take Ekira with them as they follow Luke however, to the large new ship that Marcus seems to command. As Luke confronts Marius however and defeats him in a duel, Darth Larunda reveals herself.
Ekira jumps in to help, fighting Marius while Luke fights a losing battle with Larunda. While mortally wounded, he does help Ekira and the others escape while he takes down the ship. Larunda and Marius escape however,but Marius is now conflicted about his allegiance. Ekira convinces John to learn the ways of the force. Leia surprises them by offering training.

Episode 9.
As the situation grows more desperate and the new sith empire seems near victory, Darth Larunda finds where the republic's leadership is gathered and leads the attack there personally while Marius leads a separate attack on Bespin. Ekira fights Marcus and defeats him, but fails to turn him to the light forcing her to kick him down a pit.
Together with John, who now knows enough about the force to wield a lightsaber, she moves on to try and take on Larunda. She has received a vision. She has learned of a weakness and wants to exploit it. In the fight she does cripple Larunda but she still proves stronger. Marius shows up, heavily wounded, and joins the fight against Larunda. Together with Ekira he hills her. When he raises his saber, towards her again, he recognizes his weakness and commits seppuku with it. He knows he could never be a jedi and would aways be tempted.

[Common Soldier]

What you propose seems pretty good, far better than what Disney came up with.

Now that the Solo movie is going to lose money, maybe Disney will make some changes. But Disney probably will put the blame on Star wars fatigue, instead of putting the blame where it belongs, on Kathleen kennedey's shoulder. Anytime you deliberately insult a major part of your potential audience, as she did, it shouldn't be surprising that these same fans stay away from a movie that otherwise they would have been tne first to see. Many of the fans would have otherwise gone out to see the movie ignored it, which id somewhat of a shame, because it wasn't a bad film, just not a great film. But Ms. Kennedy has ticked off the traditional fan base, and the Solo movie wasn't good enough to draw just regular movie goers who weren't Star Wars fans. But Disney will probably just blame the poor results on Star Wars fatigue, and not the fact their producer has essentially stated she doesn't care about thr traditional fans. I suspect it will take another flop before Disney wakes up and makes changes.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Screw it, I'd just do the Thrawn Trilogy. There's literally no better alternative.