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Thread: 'Star Wars' discussions

  1. #5201
    Wallachian's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    Well Rise of Skywalker was definitely the best of the terrible sequel trilogy. And yes as a lover of the expanded universe i am definitely happy the ridiculous TLJ was completely ignored.

    But better than the PT? Umm no. The ST has nothing on the PT. How can you even compare a movie like EP 3 with the absolute rubbish that was TLJ and even TFA. Maybe Phantom Menace can be compared to the ST, but even there we had Darth maul which was basically better than the whole ST.

  2. #5202
    HannibalExMachina's Avatar Just a sausage
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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    you prefer the fanfiction in your head over star wars. thats ok, its very close to ROS. but it demonstrates you are really in no position to call anything terrible.

  3. #5203
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    I was pissed when Lucas jack knifed the franchise with the prequels. I really can't be pissed at Disney, they saved the franchise from that glib ending and fan fiction cartoons. I really don't think anyone else would/could have offered Lucas a lifeline with enough clout to get more movies made.

    Out of that deal we have Rogue One (which I really like), Solo (it's okay), and The Mandalorian (which is turning out really nice). With rumours of Rogue One prequel, Kenobi and Vader (okay the last really is a wishful rumour), long may the cash cow be milked...

    TFA, TLJ and ROS, I think, will get better with time, once people remember they're Saturday morning kids movies. They were never meant to be as deep as the manbabies want them to be. That's what Blade Runner is for.

  4. #5204
    HannibalExMachina's Avatar Just a sausage
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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    dont worry, manbabies want SW to be many things, but deep isnt one of them. sadly, that is exactly what hampers ROS. its pandering to fanfic and has the usually JJ inability to grasp themes, and sometimes even screen writing 101.

    its not dumb because its for kids. its dumb because its safer.

  5. #5205

    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    JJ is a good director, so I'm hesitant to place all of the blame on him. I like nearly all of his films, and honestly, I don't think anyone does a spectacle and action as well as him. This is why his films are so appealing to the mass market audience.

  6. #5206
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    Rise of Skywalker is a more competently put together film than Last Jedi. But the plot is more convoluted and makes absolutely no sense. The writing is actually worse than all of the other movies. The constant need for exposition is the worst part, the way they execute all the plot threads and tie them together is just constant being thrown at the screen. This movie doesn't resolve anything and asks more questions than it resolves.

    Also how the heck do you balance the Force? What does that even mean? What happens when the Force gets balanced, ten thousand years of peace because presumably only the Sith are capable of murdering people?

    If they were just going to make up contrived , why couldn't they just reuse Snoke? The fact that Snoke wasn't explicitly a Sith Lord is the only good part about his character.

    While I think that Rian Johnson completely screwed over this trilogy... These people are just using the guy as a scapegoat for the failings of Kathleen Kennedy and Bob Iger. Those two along with their team of writers and incompetent decision making, are as much to blame not just for the issues in every movie but also for this trilogy not making sense. Much like they kept interfering in Rogue One and Solo, they did the same thing to Rian Johnson. To the point where you need to question, how many of the decisions in Last Jedi were even due to Rian Johnson?

    Also Bob Iger stated on record that most of the decisions in Rise of Skywalker were due to Kathleen Kennedy. She even fought JJ and George Lucas to put her ideas into the movie. She went so far as to get rid of both George Lucas and Lawrence Kasdan. The film ended up being a compromise between JJ and Kennedy, which is why there are so many convoluted plot points. Basically it feels like it was various movies edited into one.
    Last edited by Lord Oda Nobunaga; December 23, 2019 at 03:55 PM.

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  7. #5207

    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    I think the lack of direction is very obvious and extremely detrimental to the trilogy. There is little cohesion and no vision. Say what you want about the prequels and how poorly they were done, they told a story. The Sequels left me with far more questions than answers. About the story, not the setting. The latter is evidence of a compelling universe and storytelling, the former is evidence to bad writing.

  8. #5208

    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    Rey is something else, light and dark
    Wasn't that Anakin?


    Anyway terrible movie. Convoluted, badly edited, and it kinda destroys what came before it, in the franchise. The prequels with all its faults at least, told a story, and knew where they were going. They had a overall vision. This Disney Trilogy didn't had a vision at all. I suspect this franchise will die a slow death like many others. At least cinematographically.

    Btw The kid cartoons are miles better then the movies. Made by the same guy who made the Mandalorian, incidentally.

  9. #5209
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    Let's make it easy for the haters.

    Everything wrong with, everything...

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  10. #5210
    Wallachian's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by HannibalExMachina View Post
    you prefer the fanfiction in your head over star wars. thats ok, its very close to ROS. but it demonstrates you are really in no position to call anything terrible.
    The whole world considers the latest movies terrible. Even the children cartoons of Clone Wars and Rebels are about 10 classes over the embarrassment that is the ST.

    I definitely would have preferred Star Wars being dead and buried than see it butchered by Disney in the ST. So I am quite happy to see it wrapped up and hopefully Kathleen Kennedy gets the well deserved boot and Favreau gets named in her stead.

    Also, I think you are confused about what fanfic means. Especially since the Mandalorian is written by the same guy that did the so called fanfic cartoons you seem to hate.

  11. #5211

    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    Also, I think you are confused about what fanfic means. Especially since the Mandalorian is written by the same guy that did the so called fanfic cartoons you seem to hate.
    Filoni seems to know where its at. To balance the lore that he personally knows very well, that has been established with decent storytelling, and at the same time to pander to general audiences. Kids, and Adults a like.

    Its not like he invents the wheel. He doesn't need to.Just to juggle that balance. He did it on the clone wars and Rebels, with no fear to be brave plot wise, to kill major characters. His stuff is not perfect but it is decent enough.
    Star wars the clone wars season 7 is due to come back in February if im not mistaken.

  12. #5212
    HannibalExMachina's Avatar Just a sausage
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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Wallachian View Post
    The whole world considers the latest movies terrible. Even the children cartoons of Clone Wars and Rebels are about 10 classes over the embarrassment that is the ST.

    I definitely would have preferred Star Wars being dead and buried than see it butchered by Disney in the ST. So I am quite happy to see it wrapped up and hopefully Kathleen Kennedy gets the well deserved boot and Favreau gets named in her stead.

    Also, I think you are confused about what fanfic means. Especially since the Mandalorian is written by the same guy that did the so called fanfic cartoons you seem to hate.
    nope, i know exactly what it means. you made a version of SW in your head, and now you are pissed it isnt reality. shame rehashing old SW is all both you and disney can come up with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga View Post
    Rise of Skywalker is a more competently put together film than Last Jedi. But the plot is more convoluted and makes absolutely no sense. The writing is actually worse than all of the other movies. The constant need for exposition is the worst part, the way they execute all the plot threads and tie them together is just constant being thrown at the screen. This movie doesn't resolve anything and asks more questions than it resolves.

    Also how the heck do you balance the Force? What does that even mean? What happens when the Force gets balanced, ten thousand years of peace because presumably only the Sith are capable of murdering people?

    If they were just going to make up contrived , why couldn't they just reuse Snoke? The fact that Snoke wasn't explicitly a Sith Lord is the only good part about his character.

    While I think that Rian Johnson completely screwed over this trilogy... These people are just using the guy as a scapegoat for the failings of Kathleen Kennedy and Bob Iger. Those two along with their team of writers and incompetent decision making, are as much to blame not just for the issues in every movie but also for this trilogy not making sense. Much like they kept interfering in Rogue One and Solo, they did the same thing to Rian Johnson. To the point where you need to question, how many of the decisions in Last Jedi were even due to Rian Johnson?

    Also Bob Iger stated on record that most of the decisions in Rise of Skywalker were due to Kathleen Kennedy. She even fought JJ and George Lucas to put her ideas into the movie. She went so far as to get rid of both George Lucas and Lawrence Kasdan. The film ended up being a compromise between JJ and Kennedy, which is why there are so many convoluted plot points. Basically it feels like it was various movies edited into one.
    could you link that interview, so far ive only found the one were iger says: "maybe churning out all the SW all the time wasnt a great idea"

  13. #5213
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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by HannibalExMachina View Post
    dont worry, manbabies want SW to be many things, but deep isnt one of them. sadly, that is exactly what hampers ROS. its pandering to fanfic and has the usually JJ inability to grasp themes, and sometimes even screen writing 101.

    its not dumb because its for kids. its dumb because its safer.
    loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool!!! So tell me about how deep the first two movies were?!

    Seriously now. You and other S(J)W advocates keep telling me of this great piece of art and I can't see it anywhere.

    "It's dumb because it's safer" -> Didn't pan out that well, did it now?


    Thing is that JJA is NOT a good story teller. He and his mystery box BS can go straight to hell as far as I'm concerned. There's a difference between a good writer who has a creative vision and JJ Abrams who just knows how to create mystery but with no idea as to how to end it. He can imitate greatness, but he ALWAYS gets himself into a writers corner.

    But no. THIS time it's different. THIS time it's the straight white men's fault. Don't disagree with you there, since Iger, Abrams & Johnson are all 3 presumably straight (didn't bother to check, don't care) white men. Except you don't blame them but the illuminati. Mimimi.

    The reality is that Disney decided it needed to expand the consumer base where it was lacking the most: E.g. minorities and women. Which is fair enough. The execs and the "visionaries" thought their fanbase were slaves enough that they'd stick around even when they were being insulted. They were right, for a limited time, but now that's biting them in the a. As someone who's never been a fan of Star Wars and never will be, I'm just happy that they did get hit. My only wish would be that those manbabies had more of a spine and would just quit that franchise for good. But Mandalorian shows us that too many of them sheep don't. Nevertheless: The damage to the brand equity is thankfully there. Now if only the pseudo-leftist pseudo-intellectuals would stop worshipping a multibillion dollar corporation with the name and history of Disney, and perchance maybe pick up a book, for example yes, Sartre, then we could move completely on. This culture war being waged about some poorly-thought-of creatures in a universe with zero sense and intellectual depth just shows us how infantilised and pathetic this world has become.

    Anyone who seriously enjoys any Disney-Lucas stuff: I'm happy for you. But I'm also sad for you if you force yourself to like it for political reasons, if you think Rey is the best a female lead character can be and that this cast somehow is a win for anyone in the real world. It's not. And if you think this decision to go into a pseudo-progressive politicial direction with the new movies. It's not. It's readily apparent by the total lack of any actual substance that they don't give a either way. Now stop worshipping this golden cow.
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  14. #5214
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    Bob Iger also canned George's scripts when they acquired the franchise because they wanted safer films. George Lucas wanted Kathleen Kennedy to defend his scripts but instead she decided to go with Bob Iger. Since Force Awakens was a monetary success this led to Kathleen Kennedy getting more authority from Iger. These parts are in the Bob Iger book.

    Which I guess led to Kennedy doing whatever she wanted and giving Episode 8 to Rian Johnson. But because that movie failed Bob Iger decided to limit her power. We know that because she was unable to decide which final cut to use, that was decided by Bob Iger and more or less JJ Abrams.

    Also they claim that Rian Johnson had full control over Last Jedi but I doubt this is true at all. For starters we know that the movie was rewritten and had multiple re-shoots. Kathleen Kennedy already controlled the writing process for the entire trilogy. Maybe she gave him creative freedom but it is obvious that she controlled the process for making Last Jedi.

    Bob Iger basically said that Kahtleen Kennedy made most of the decisions in Rise of Skywalker. I can't find the article. But then later Kathleen said that she was proud that JJ was able to finish the trilogy on such a high note, so both of them want to distance themselves from it.

    In the interview I just saw, Bob Iger spends most of his time talking about The Mandalorian and then about how great of a medium television was. Barely even mentioned Rise of Skywalker. It seems like Kathleen Kennedy isn't allowed to touch The Mandalorian. They have like one or two other projects in the works which Kennedy might not be allowed to touch either. I'm not sure what else they are making, probably shows if I had to guess. Maybe another stand alone movie. It doesn't appear that they want to make trilogies anymore.
    Last edited by Lord Oda Nobunaga; December 24, 2019 at 11:59 AM.

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  15. #5215
    Wallachian's Avatar Tribunus
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    Quote Originally Posted by HannibalExMachina View Post
    nope, i know exactly what it means. you made a version of SW in your head, and now you are pissed it isnt reality. shame rehashing old SW is all both you and disney can come up with.
    Actually rehashing old SW is what i completely hated about the new trilogy which is what you seem to love so much. That is why i found it a piece of rubbish. Another death star? Another desert planet? another ice planet? Another bad guy with a mask? Going back to tatooine yet again? Going back to the second death star? All the ships and starfighters and stormtroopers look exactly the same like they did in the old movies?

    I wanted new stuff, new stories, new ships, new planets, new characters. And none of that happened. All we got was the old trilogy rebooted. Pathetic.

    And I think you are the one that is either uninformed (or willfully ignorant) about what star wars is or has some sort of weird distorted version of it.

    Unlucky for you the shameful trilogy is over. Lucky for the rest of us we have the mandalorian which is written by Dave Filoni and plenty of other good quality comics made by Marvel and of course the final season of the Clone Wars which all are far superior to the new movies. And again, unfortunately for you they are all part of the same cannon as the movies.
    Last edited by Wallachian; December 24, 2019 at 12:32 PM.

  16. #5216
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven View Post
    Anyway terrible movie. Convoluted, badly edited, and it kinda destroys what came before it, in the franchise. The prequels with all its faults at least, told a story, and knew where they were going. They had a overall vision. This Disney Trilogy didn't had a vision at all. I suspect this franchise will die a slow death like many others. At least cinematographically.
    I'll be honest here. Star Wars was already a failure.
    After Return of the Jedi came out the franchise was pretty much over. Star Wars became irrelevant during the 1990's and only came back when Phantom Menace was released in 1999. Mostly they just had novels and comics, the atrocious Marvel run ended before 1990 and it was picked up by Dark Horse comics, which kept the franchise going. Novels about Luke Skywalker were still being made and there was success with the Thrawn Trilogy, but 1992 also saw the horrid Jedi Prince pentalogy, which was quickly ignored. The Prequel Trilogy ended in 2005 and all we really had were books and comics.

    So then what failed? All the Luke Skywalker books are irrelevant and they didn't continue that series. Knights of the Old Republic was a failure first with that terrible Revan novel, the KOTOR comics stopped being published, and the MMO didn't deliver, which everyone wanted KOTOR 3 instead of an impotent MMO. The only thing George managed to make in that whole time was the Clone Wars series which retconned 10 years of material. Lucasfilm was completely broke, they can't make a series or game or movie and keep it going which is why George sold it in the first place. I would add that George hasn't made a good movie since the 80's. George really only kept the franchise afloat until 2012 by selling toys with the release of each movie. Now kids don't buy toys, 30 year old men do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven View Post
    Btw The kid cartoons are miles better then the movies. Made by the same guy who made the Mandalorian, incidentally.
    Actually Dave Filoni didn't make The Mandalorian. Jon Favreau did, aka Happy from Ironman.
    So far Dave Filoni has directed two episodes, and was made an executive producer halfway through production. Other than that he helped write the first episode.

    I don't like Dave Filoni. All he has done is make the sub-par Clone Wars series, and he had lots of help. Then he made Star Wars Rebels which was average to bad. Now he is working on that god awful kiddy cartoon Star Wars Resistance.

    Just going from Clone Wars alone Filoni is not a very good writer. All they did in Clone Wars was copy existing work and changing it just to make it worse. The guy can't make a satisfying and conclusive plot for . So no way am I giving him credit for The Mandalorian, which in my opinion is decent but not amazing anyway.

    As for what I think about The Mandalorian.
    1st episode = decent
    2nd episode = decent
    3rd episode = decent
    4th episode = meh
    5th episode = meh
    6th episode = meh (although I liked seeing Clancy Brown... oh yeah and Bill Burr was in it)
    7th episode = decent
    8th episode = presumably decent

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven View Post
    Filoni seems to know where its at. To balance the lore that he personally knows very well, that has been established with decent storytelling, and at the same time to pander to general audiences. Kids, and Adults a like.

    Its not like he invents the wheel. He doesn't need to.Just to juggle that balance. He did it on the clone wars and Rebels, with no fear to be brave plot wise, to kill major characters. His stuff is not perfect but it is decent enough.
    Star wars the clone wars season 7 is due to come back in February if im not mistaken.
    I'm sorry but I completely disagree with this.
    Filoni just copied existing stories for both Clone Wars and Rebels. His entire job was just to justify George's prequel bull crap. He also slaughtered the lore and used characters like Maul for fan service, did jack all with Grievous, unnecessarily retconned Ventress, and then retconned Quinlan Vos as well. Then in Rebels stupid retcons like Malachor was the site of a Jedi-Sith battle... which Malachor was actually where Revan wiped out the Mandalorians. Other dumb things like using Thrawn for fan service, talking spirit wolves, Gods of Mortis (which makes no sense with regards to the Force... I thought George didn't want the Force to be gobbledygook but he invents Mortis Gods and Midichlorians???), and Kyber crystals as just a generic crystal, even though Kaiburr crystals are actually really powerful and usually used by the Sith. Hell I could go on for why I hate Clone Wars and Rebels. But Filoni sucks and most of it is his inability to write a proper story, and complete lack of planning. Anyone thinking the issues in Clone Wars was due to George's meddling, can't explain Rebels.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  17. #5217
    John Doe's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    I am a manbaby, I remember when I went to see ESB and RotJ in the movie theater back then, saving my pocket money to watch them. I remember that as soon as I left the theater I started to save to go back to experience the magic again. I know a lot of water went under the bridge since then, but it's a little shame that star war franchise is only good enough to sell extra large popcorn buckets rather than having the younger generation join the queue to experience it again.

    I guess it became a little like the Jurassic park franchise, same movies just with bigger dinosaurs. Just like TFA is an aNH2.0 with a bigger death star, RoS is RotJ 2.0 .

  18. #5218
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Star Wars is a franchise for older kids who were around in the 80's. The Prequels was for kids who grew up in the 2000's, a lot of the older people probably jumped ship when Phantom Menace came out. The Sequel Trilogy seemed well timed to grab the younger generation of kids, but these kids seem not to care.

    Anyway I don't think Star Wars is dead. Disney will resurrect it even if they have to pour a trillion dollars into it. Star Wars has brand recognition so there is no reason to let it go. Here is what I predict will happen.

    -Kathleen Kennedy will get sidelined and Bob Iger will staff Lucasfilm with people from Marvel
    -They will keep making TV shows and stand alone movies to keep interest and prevent audiences from abandoning the franchise entirely
    -The brand will be managed by various producers with supervision from Bob Iger, and they won't give an entire series to one director but instead use various directors that are not associated with Star Wars (like they would any other movie)
    -But there probably won't be too many series at first, just stand alone movies that might get sequels if they do well enough
    -Rian Johnson will get fired and most existing plans will be scrapped or transformed from movies into TV shows
    -They will tone down Social Justice and politics to acceptable 90's and 2000's levels
    -Kathleen Kennedy will eventually "resign" for whatever reason they make up and they will pretend that the previous projects were a success
    -Various producers like Jon Favreau, Kevin Feige and god forbid Dave Filoni will run the new projects
    -The 2020's will start out slow with only a few projects, but as it gets going they will increase the number of projects once they figure out what to feed the audience
    -Once they gain the audience's trust they will make another Trilogy, probably about another story entirely
    Last edited by Lord Oda Nobunaga; December 24, 2019 at 04:39 PM.

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  19. #5219

    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga View Post
    Anyway I don't think Star Wars is dead. Disney will resurrect it even if they have to pour a trillion dollars into it. Star Wars has brand recognition so there is no reason to let it go. Here is what I predict will happen.
    You're making it sound like Disney hasn't made buckets of profit off of this IP. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if things stay mostly the same. They may get a "stern talking to" regarding the criticism. I mean yeah, a reshuffle wouldn't surprise me either but I don't think that's set in stone.

  20. #5220
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Quote Originally Posted by Love Mountain View Post
    You're making it sound like Disney hasn't made buckets of profit off of this IP. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if things stay mostly the same. They may get a "stern talking to" regarding the criticism. I mean yeah, a reshuffle wouldn't surprise me either but I don't think that's set in stone.
    Certainly nowhere near as much as they expected. Toy sales are lower than dirt and Rise of Skywalker might not even break 1 Billion.

    There is going to be a "reshuffle", I don't know what is happening over at Disney but I'm willing to gamble on it. Kathleen and Rian are going to get the boot.

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