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Thread: 'Star Wars' discussions

  1. #5101
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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    Though I must say that had they made Jar Jar Binks the secret ubersithlord behind everything, I wouldn't have cared about anything else.
    Probably one of the more clever theories and a something that would have been more interesting. But, how disappointed will be the children be if this was the case.
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  2. #5102

    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    Probably one of the more clever theories and a something that would have been more interesting. But, how disappointed will be the children be if this was the case.

    Why? Did anyone really like Jar Jar Binks? I get the impression he was really disliked by many, and would children really be disappointed if he proved to be the mastermind behind the Empire?
    Last edited by Common Soldier; May 14, 2019 at 11:18 AM.

  3. #5103
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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Common Soldier View Post
    Why? Did anyone really like Jar Jar Binks? I. Get the impression he was really disliked by many, and would children really be disappointed if he proved to be the mastermind behind the Empire?
    Isn't Lucas on record stating that Jar Jar character was supposed to be appealing to children. Having him geared that way only to have him be an evil Sith lord might be to traumatizing. Then again, Lucas flipping things isn't foreign to him. LOL

    I guess if you look at it from a certain point of view anything is possible.
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  4. #5104

    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    Isn't Lucas on record stating that Jar Jar character was supposed to be appealing to children. Having him geared that way only to have him be an evil Sith lord might be to traumatizing. Then again, Lucas flipping things isn't foreign to him. LOL

    I guess if you look at it from a certain point of view anything is possible.

    Trying to appeal to little children is where Star Wars started going down hill, starting with the Return of the Jedi and the stupid Ewoks. I could see s planet of Wookies taking on Storm Troopers but little fud balls with stone spears, no way! While Lucas now says he didn't have the money to make them Woolies, that is typical Lucas BS. Lucas realized that he could make a ton of money selling toys, and that little kids buy more toys and actions figures than the teenagers who were Star Wars original target audience. Lucas started gearing his movie toward young kids, and the quality of the movies suffered as a result. That is why he made Anakin way too young in the first movie, it as just not believable for a 6 year to be to be in the Pod race. Had Anakin been a teenager, the same age as Luke in the original movie, it would have been so much more believable. But he wantex to have the little kids who buy all the toys and actions figures to identify with Anakin, and as a result, ruined the series. Starting off with Anakin so young did not leave him enough time to realistically develop Anakin's turn to the dark side of the Force, he needed another movie to really have done it right.

    Nothing is more telling than when they complain about how a movie is doing because they weren't selling as many toys and action figures as they wanted. I wonderdd if Lucas and Disney didn't make more Star Wars movies simply so they could sell more action figursles., And when you do that, how else can the results be but bad?


    PS - I would like to point out that Rian and company had no problem traumatizing the original Star Wars fans by making Luke and class one jerk and totally inconsistent with his character in the other movies, and pointlessly killing him off, so I don't see why they could not Jar Jar Binks the evil Mastermind. But I guess that would ruin Jar Jar Bink action figure sales, so it wasn't allowed.
    Last edited by Common Soldier; May 14, 2019 at 12:10 PM.

  5. #5105
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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    You are preaching to the choir. I was 7 when the first one came out and 13 when Return of the Jedi came out. Ewoks were definitely dumb. We had all of the action figures when they came out. The first two we owned was R2-D2 and C-3PO. I didn't have a problem owning the "bad guys," you sort of needed them. Lucas was always about the toys. He even made Mel Brooks agree not to sell toys for Spaceballs.
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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    I found these critiques of the prequel and the Last Jedi. The first two more or less hit on what I discussed previously. The Last Jedi points to other issues with how the execution of Rian Johnsons story failed. It isn't a slam fest, so it is worth a watch.

    The Phantom Menace



    Attack of the Clones


    The Last jedi
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  7. #5107
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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    Its only a pity that this whole "what went wrong" thing is becoming a recurring theme that only gains relevance with every next SW flick. One may argue that after the Last Jedi and Solo the bar has been set so low that it will be hard for Disney to reach a new low anytime soon, but with K.Kennedy at the helm it is a realistic possibility.

  8. #5108

    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    I'm legitimately concerned of what D&D's entries, if they are set to go, will consist of.

  9. #5109

    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladyvid View Post
    Its only a pity that this whole "what went wrong" thing is becoming a recurring theme that only gains relevance with every next SW flick. One may argue that after the Last Jedi and Solo the bar has been set so low that it will be hard for Disney to reach a new low anytime soon, but with K.Kennedy at the helm it is a realistic possibility.
    I don't think Disney cares what "fans" think. As long as Disney makes money, they will be ok. Kathleen Kennedy has already shown that she doesn't really care what thede fan critics think. In Disney's way of thinking, these fans are all middle age geezers who don't buy the toys and action figures, and they are going to be dying off, so they would rather appeal to a new, younger marlet, and all the old time fans to get lost.

    Like it or not, Disney did make a lot of money on the Last Jedi and the Force Awakens, so why should they concern themselves with the opinions of a bunch of whiners? They made the Hans Solo movie as a so for all the old time Star Wars fans, the middle age men they deliberately set out to alienate the TFA and TLJ, and Hans Solo movie flopped, so why should Disney make any effort to appease these guys, especially since they are not buying the Star Wars toys and action figures?

    Disney has already said the 3rd movie will be the last Star Wars movie in the foreseeable future. That way if it tanks like the Solo movie, they won't have to embarrassingly cancel s movie, and if the 3rd movie is a mega hit, they can always change their minds.


    It suddenly occurred to me why the Star Wars movies have been steadily going down hill from the original first 2 movies. Lucas divorced his first wife in 1983, and without her influence, his moviez became crap. I suspect she had a bigger role in the success of Star Wars than people realize. Perhaps she looked over his scripts, and wasn't afraid to tell Lucas if it was no good. Maybe she was the unsung hero of how Star Wars became such as classic.

  10. #5110
    Vladyvid's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    I know they dont care, its been going on for a while and that thought had enough time to sink in you know. Im loving your optimism, but i must say this is very refreshing to rub some more salt into this SW wound, without painkillers. I know, i know, it has to hurt, and i will take it like a man.


    But you know what, i just move on, there is regret sure but you move on to something else eventually... the only problem is that that something else may already be or become owned by... Disney...

  11. #5111
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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Common Soldier View Post
    I don't think Disney cares what "fans" think. As long as Disney makes money, they will be ok. Kathleen Kennedy has already shown that she doesn't really care what thede fan critics think. In Disney's way of thinking, these fans are all middle age geezers who don't buy the toys and action figures, and they are going to be dying off, so they would rather appeal to a new, younger marlet, and all the old time fans to get lost.

    Like it or not, Disney did make a lot of money on the Last Jedi and the Force Awakens, so why should they concern themselves with the opinions of a bunch of whiners? They made the Hans Solo movie as a so for all the old time Star Wars fans, the middle age men they deliberately set out to alienate the TFA and TLJ, and Hans Solo movie flopped, so why should Disney make any effort to appease these guys, especially since they are not buying the Star Wars toys and action figures?

    Disney has already said the 3rd movie will be the last Star Wars movie in the foreseeable future. That way if it tanks like the Solo movie, they won't have to embarrassingly cancel s movie, and if the 3rd movie is a mega hit, they can always change their minds.


    It suddenly occurred to me why the Star Wars movies have been steadily going down hill from the original first 2 movies. Lucas divorced his first wife in 1983, and without her influence, his moviez became crap. I suspect she had a bigger role in the success of Star Wars than people realize. Perhaps she looked over his scripts, and wasn't afraid to tell Lucas if it was no good. Maybe she was the unsung hero of how Star Wars became such as classic.
    Sorry, but much of this is nonsense. No production company is in the business of not making a profit. The movies expectations were supposed to make millions with the rebirth of the franchise after the criticism of the prequel. I have no doubt that they thought they would revolutionize the franchise. Movies now and days are more about subverting your expectations, but they have done so so much that is no longer appreciated. What they fail to realize is that sci fi fans do not like "great" change. Star Wars is supposed to be a simple movie with clear archetypes. For me, I could had handle revolutionary approach if they stuck with it. (referring to my last vid I posted). Anyway, everything they did was with the intention of making a lot of money. As far as the SW "stories" I wish they had stuck with unknown side plots that were occurring along side the "main events in the movies. They woud have ben a great more freedom and the stories could have been fresher. Movies of origin stories were not the way to go, though Force One was the best movie since Empire.

    BTW, the two best movies is A New Hope (kicks off the universe and Empire. Empire was the movie Lucas had the least amount of input into it. Return of the Jedi was a slight drop off that would continue with the prequels.
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  12. #5112
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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    They've released a trailer for The Mandalorian TV show. Werner Herzog is in it!!!





  13. #5113

    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    Yawn.

    After The Last Jedi, I don't care what Disney does with Star Wars. I don't plan on seeing The Rise of Skywalker either. The shoe looks like it will have some nice imagery, which you probably won't be able to appreciate unless you have a big screen TV. I am kind of getting saturated with more shoot them up, and it looks to be more of the same. I never found the bounty Hunter Bob Fett that interesting, and since it looks like he or she will be a primary character in the show, I definitely wi give the shoe a pass.

    Maybe if they did something really interesting, like make the Storm Trooper the good guys, I might have a tiny shred of interest. Or make the Resistance/Rebellion the bad guys, portray them as Islamic like fanaticsz, that would be different..

    Disney learned nothing after The Last Jedi, they still think they made a great movie.

  14. #5114

    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    Sorry, but much of this is nonsense. No production company is in the business of not making a profit.
    Movie makers don't tell the fans to get lost and drop dead, yet that is exactly what Kathleen Kennedy did. Instead admitting that some ofnthr criticism might have been valid, they dismissed in any criticism and engaged in ad hominem attacks on their critics. Disney basically was telling long time fans of the Stars Wars that they didnt care about them and they should all drop dead, because they didn't buy all the crap toys and as they were getting older, probably wouldn't be around the next 30 years to make Disney a boat load of money in the future.

    And as for making money, the Hand Solo movirkst money because the fans that would have gone out to see it it stayed home, instead of watching the movie 2 or 3 times. A that crap about Star Wars movie fatigue is BS - Marvel didn't have any problem with movie fatigue. It is just an accused Disney and company made to avoid admitting the truth, that the movie lost money because Kathleen deliberately antagonized and insulted the very fan base that was the movies primary audience. The younger generation and women that the The Last Jedi was designed to appeal to had no emotional interest in Hans Solo, it was the older white can boys that fondly remembered Hans Solo from watching the original movies when they were young. They were going to be the primary audience that would want to see that movie. And Disney outright insults them. Iz it any wonder Hans Solo lost money?


    The movies expectations were supposed to make millions with the rebirth of the franchise after the criticism of the prequel. I have no doubt that they thought they would revolutionize the franchise. Movies now and days are more about subverting your expectations, but they have done so so much that is no longer appreciated.
    Surprising audiences is one thing, subverting expectations is another thing. The phrase "subverting expectation" was invented to justify crap movie making. Sorry, but if you make a a movie a farce and comedy of what was serious movie series, that is subverting expectations, but it would still be a wrong thing and a bad movie. Making a Twilight sequel as a slap stick comedy would subvert audiences expectations too, but it would be wrong. Audiences when they come to see a Twilight movie have the right to see a certain type of movie, and the director doesn't have a right to change that simply because he wants to subvert expectations. I read someone saying haviing Harry Potter suddenly appear out of nowhere and wave his magic wand to save the day in The Last Jedi would have subverted audience expectations too, but it would still be crap.

    And if they had treated Leia the same way they treated Luke, there would have been howls.of protest from the very same people who defended The Last Jedi. It would have subverted expectations to make Leia a bitter old woman would secretly sells out to the First Order because she was tired of spending a life time of fighting and winding up right where she started, on the run. Having Leiz secretly betray the Resistance by radio the First Order the Resistance fleet location would have subverted fans expectations, and made a much more interesting, but they didn't do that because it wasn't logically correct.

    for
    What they fail to realize is that sci fi fans do not like "great" change. Star Wars is supposed to be a simple movie with clear archetypes. For me, I could had handle revolutionary approach if they stuck with it. (referring to my last vid I posted). Anyway, everything they did was with the intention of making a lot of money. As far as the SW "stories" I wish they had stuck with unknown side plots that were occurring along side the "main events in the movies. They woud have ben a great more freedom and the stories could have been fresher. Movies of origin stories were not the way to go, though Force One was the best movie since Empire.
    Nonsense. Sci Fans are ok with great changed when it makes sense in light of the previous movies. The Empire Strikes Back surprised the audience several times, no fan expected Darth Vader to be Luke's father. And no one expected Ha s to be frozen at the end of the Empire Strike's Back. But those surprised didn't "subvert fans expectations", it made sense in context of the movie and what went before. We understand Owen's concern about Luke being too much like his father - it adds depth to to Uncle Owen's concern. Owen is t afraid Like will be killed, but that Luke could turn to evil like his father Darth Vader. The revelation also added depth to Vader's character. Vader wants to bring order to the galaxy and end the destructive conflict the galaxy is experiencing. It also raises.thr question that maybe the Jedi are not quite as Noble and perfect as we believe. We can even understand why Ben kept the knowledge from Luke.

    In The Last Jedi there was none of that kind of surprises. Luke's actions, of almost killing his nephew, the son of his best friend, just because he had bad dreams, is totally out of character. And Luke's tossing his light saber away just made him seem like a duce. It was done for cheap laughs and wasn't even funny. Admiral Holdo ego power trip move of refusing to confirm that she at least she had a plan, even if she couldn't share it. All Poe asked was for her to confirm that she had a plan, he did not even ask what the plan was, a totally reasonable request, and she blew him off the same way Kathleen Kennedy blew off the Star Trek fans.
    ..

    BTW, the two best movies is A New Hope (kicks off the universe and Empire. Empire was the movie Lucas had the least amount of input into it. Return of the Jedi was a slight drop off that would continue with the prequels.
    I agree. What happened with The Return of the Jedi is that Lucas started making his movies with the goal of selling toys and merchandise. If your goal in making a movie is to sell toys, the quality of that movie is going to decline. I saw an interview by Harrison Ford, who has long wanted to kill off Hand Solo, and he was told by Lucas " a dead Hans doesn't sell toys". That says it all as to why Lucas later Star Wars movies were not as good.
    Last edited by Common Soldier; August 26, 2019 at 12:47 AM.

  15. #5115
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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    Obi-Wan series with Ewan McGregor has been announced for Disney+

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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    Maybe I'll give it a shot...
    The score card so far:

    The Force Awakens -
    Rogue One - terrible story but it had cool space battles
    The Last Jedi - mega
    Solo - average story, stupid Darth Maul sequel baiting, entertaining at least
    Rebels - average to depending on the season
    Resistance - why???
    Rise of Skywalker (wtf???) - infinity omega

    The new Clone Wars better be amazing.
    Last edited by Lord Oda Nobunaga; August 24, 2019 at 10:30 AM.

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  17. #5117
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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    Looking forward to the clone wars too.

    I’ll give the Ewan McGregor Obi-Wan series a shot tho
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  18. #5118

    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    I might look into the Mandalorian as well.

  19. #5119
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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    I don't even really like the Clone Wars series. It is bad when this is the only thing that I can really look forward to. A series with Ewan McGregor as an older Obi-wan sounds great. I imagine it would be Logan but not as bleak? With emphasis being put on "Hope"? Honestly they should just make Yojimbo or something but in space, with Kenobi being like the sort of wandering Ronin character. George already borrowed quite liberally from Kurosawa and they even had a Seven Samurai episode in Clone Wars. Maybe something akin to Lone Wolf and Cub would work as well. Although there is no reason for me to think that they would even do this well.

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  20. #5120
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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    rofl Obi-Wan Kenobi as Lone Wolf and Cub. That'd be amazing. He has an illegitimate love child and pushes it around in a hover cart which has lightsabers on the side and blaster rifles inside.

    Maybe Obi-Wan hangs onto R2-D2 for a few years after Revenge of the Sith and they go on a few adventures together.




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