Unit Suggestions for Roma Surrectum

[cherryfunk]

I'm helping dvk with the units for Roma Surrectum -- we're interested in giving each faction a unique set of units that are culturally appropriate and at least somewhat historically accurate -- not necessarily to the EB or RTR level, but moreso than vanilla RTW.

The idea is to create a historically realistic atmosphere for the player, regardless of which faction he plays.

So for example, rather than a generic 'Barbarian Cavalry' unit, we'd like to give each "barbarian" faction a culturally appropriate light cavarly unit. For instance, if the Germans historically had some Alan tribes as their allies, it might be better to call German light cavalry something like "Alan Horsemen" or "Alan Allied Horsemen" than the boring 'Barbarian Cavalry.' Even if we don't change the unit stats, we're hoping to add some atmosphere to the game just through unit names and descriptions so that the barbarian factions in particular are not carbon copies of each other. (Although we're thinking of tweaking stats a bit along cultural lines, for example having the Germans slightly better on attack, the Gauls slightly better armor, etc. -- but we'd like these changes if we make them to also have some basis in historical fact, and of course they must preserve the overall game balance -- if you have any suggestions for cultural tweaks like that, let us know).

At the moment I'm compiling a database of all the units currently in Roma Surrectum so we have an overview that will make future edits easier. I'm also doing research into the history of the barbarian factions to find good candidates for new units or new names for existing units.

If you have any suggestions along these lines -- either what we should call the existing unit types for each faction, or any ideas for new units that should be added, please post them here along with your reasons why you think it would be a good modification/addition. Also, if another mod has a great unit that you think really adds to the game, post that as well, maybe we can get permission and add it to RS.

[Aleric]

A must have is swordsmen for carthage and factions similar, more or a infantry choice for the eastern factions as egypt and seleucid are the only ones with a mix of infantry? You don't have to add them you can say no but it'd be better intead of spamming eastern infantry for parthia...

[Tyr]

I have a suggestion. How about giving all Greek units Greek names? For example, ‘Toxotai’ for archers. If anyone’s played Lusted’s Terrae Expugnadae they’ll know what I mean. It makes the Greek factions more unique.

Syracuse should have access to AoR Italic and Sicilian troops e.g. Italic Swordsmen, Samnite Spearmen, Sicilian Skirmishers.

on a side note, how about moving the original Roma Surrectum thread over to here...

EDIT: "Roma Surrectum"...which means "Rome Arises". It is a provincial campaign lasting from 300BC-200AD.

Just read the little intro thing in the hosted modifications section, and must say that the 'provincial campaign' decription is misleading; when i see Provincila campaign I think of a small campaign. Dont know if its just me but thought i should point it out.

[florin80]

Didn`t notice exactly what the factions will be, but if you include a dacian/getai faction please give them proper units. That is to say no celtic or greek looking. I know that these influences existed, but that`s all they were. Check this mini-mod. Maybe it inspires you.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=62140

[cherryfunk]

Didn`t notice exactly what the factions will be, but if you include a dacian/getai faction please give them proper units. That is to say no celtic or greek looking. I know that these influences existed, but that`s all they were. Check this mini-mod. Maybe it inspires you.

Great suggestion! dvk and I have been talking back and forth about the Dacians and how poorly represented they were in vanilla RTW. It was a fascinating culture that was on the verge of greatness when the Romans got all pissy and obliterated them. That Roman/Dacian campaign is a fascinating one to read about, it's the Roman army at the peak of their power waging a textbook campaign against a strong enemy in a hostile terrority.

I'd love to see that Demotikoi unit in Roma Surrectum -- a 'barbarian' infantry that fights like Roman hastati, throwing javelins and then charging in with spears, that would be great fun to play. And the Dacian Hippotoxotai looks great. Any chance we can add these, dvk?

[florin80]

Oh, I think that webbird also has some nice dacian units. A chosen swordsmen with the Osprey shield. Not sure about his helmet, but its a very nice unit. I think you can find it in his Xmas box. Check it out in the downloads section. And also take a look at this. I think it`s a little old, but may have something interesting to you:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showp...23&postcount=5
There`s also a thracian peltast by Titus Andronicus here:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=60397
And that`s about all thracian/dacian units I know that are not part of a big mod.

[dvk901]

"A must have is swordsmen for carthage and factions similar, more or a infantry choice for the eastern factions as egypt and seleucid are the only ones with a mix of infantry? You don't have to add them you can say no but it'd be better intead of spamming eastern infantry for parthia..."

My intention is to have every faction somehow balanced with units that can compete in the campaign.

"Syracuse should have access to AoR Italic and Sicilian troops e.g. Italic Swordsmen, Samnite Spearmen, Sicilian Skirmishers."

Yes, they should, and do. Also, Syracuse was known for strong cavalry.

"Didn`t notice exactly what the factions will be, but if you include a dacian/getai faction please give them proper units. That is to say no celtic or greek looking. I know that these influences existed, but that`s all they were. Check this mini-mod. Maybe it inspires you."

Discovered, as cherryfunk says, that Dacia was no pushover Barb nation....will work on them. And Florin80, I used most of Webbirds Xmas box....very nice and I'm sure the Dacian units are in this. The other one 'De Bello Dacico v1.1' I only discovered the other day. May be old, but I don't care. NICE is all I care about.

"I have a suggestion. How about giving all Greek units Greek names? For example, ‘Toxotai’ for archers."

I'm all for REAL names, that's what Cherryfunk and I, with help from all of you, are doing. Still, I will want the names to include an 'understandable' description, thus 'Toxotai (Greek Archer)' so you know at a glance what you're recruiting.

"I'd love to see that Demotikoi unit in Roma Surrectum -- a 'barbarian' infantry that fights like Roman hastati, throwing javelins and then charging in with spears, that would be great fun to play. And the Dacian Hippotoxotai looks great. Any chance we can add these, dvk?"

Sure, I just freed up two more slots tonite, so now there are 7 free to use....just removing stuff that wasn't being used. Amazing how much duplication there was in RTW, and entries not being used right off the CD. Also, RS includes a number of more 'elite' units, way beyond the 'greek legionary, numdian, eastern copies of Roman legionaries. You'll see them, when I get this uploaded, as 'Spanish Swordsman, Gallic Elite Infantry, etc." and I meant them to be competition against Rome....beyond just throwing stones and spitting at them..hehe. My thinking is that a player who decides to build an Empire with Dacia, for example, should have available the kind of things Dacia would've had or developed, had Rome not snuffed them out. The play balancing may be an issue though, anyone NOT playing Rome better never let them build these Legions..or they're dead!

[Tzif]

"I have a suggestion. How about giving all Greek units Greek names? For example, ‘Toxotai’ for archers."

I'm all for REAL names, that's what Cherryfunk and I, with help from all of you, are doing. Still, I will want the names to include an 'understandable' description, thus 'Toxotai (Greek Archer)' so you know at a glance what you're recruiting.

Ya, I enjoy what Lusted did with the Greek factions (currently playing a Greek campaign in TE). I'm sure Lusted would let you guys use his Greeks if you ask. Then all you would have to do is add a line in the description that says something like "Toxotai- A Greek archer." or something like that.

Tzif

[Tyr]

I see that for certain factions in this game, a what-if approach is being taken, like legionaires for Carthage, and the inclusion of the Bosporan Kingdom.
Well i have a suggestion concerning Germania. In RTW none of their units use swords, instead spears and axes. I guess the reasoning behind this is that the dark forested lands of Germanian lack the metal sufficient enough to produce swords. My suggestion is to give Germania a sword unit whose recriutment is tied to the iron resource. For example just giving them 'Chosen Swordsmen', (but renaming them Germanic swordsmen or something of the sort) that they can recruit in barracks at level 4/5 providing the province has the iron resource.

Have you seen the Res Gestae Mauryran Empire skins? Maybe they could be intergrated? It could be cool if you were an hellenic faction that once you conquered the indian region you could recruit some of those units.

Edit: Nevermind last suggestion, I forgot this mod is using IceTourques/Webbirds map.

[dvk901]

Good thinking....indeed I've given Germany as well a 'Higher-Level' legion-equal type unit....and have tried to do this with every faction. Didn't think to limit it to a region with Iron resource, but I don't know if this would be necessary. As time passed, the Romans became much like the modern-day nations in trading their weapons for MONEY!!! Thus, gobs of weapons were made available to the gallic/celt/saxon tribes by the Romans....later to be used to kill their Legions with. Ironic, isn't it?

[tone]

The Mauryan empire skins from Res Gestae are quite something!! as are the Res Gestae skins for most of the factions. I just hope they weren't lost forever when Prometheus decided to give up on that project. It'd be so good to see at least one mod come out with those skins - most people would die to see them in their game....myself included.
Any luck with permission to use these skins, dvk?

[dvk901]

I have been so overwhelmed with work trying to get this ready to go that I've really given it no thought. Maybe for a next release, or if they become available. I suspect, since Prometheus is going to work on MTW2, they may never come out for RTW.

[Tyr]

Might have mentioned this allready, but will mention it again.

Briton will not be present as a faction in Roma Surrectum. I will not miss it, and will prefer the absence of Briton to that of another faction. However I did like in RTW, that when you conquered the Island you had to face these unique units like Chariots.

So how about allowing the Gauls to recruit certain units only in Britain (via hidden resources); Chariots, Woad Warriors, ect. This would mean that when you conquer the island it would still offer a unique experiance.
Also, by removing the sea_faring ability of those british units you would stop the AI shipping them over to Europe so they truly would be confined to Britain - not spoilling the 'uniqueness' of the island. (This would also stop human players exploiting chariots and shipping them over to Europe to fight as well).

Can you tie certain buildings to hidden resources? Because if you can; you could further replicate the unique British culture on the island by stopping them from building their normal temples (to Esus, Apona eect) in Britain; and instead only allow shrines to Briganta, Britannia ect to built on the island.

If these changes could be made, it might be enough to please those who maybe wont like the absence of the Britons.

[dvk901]

Although Briton will be in the 'beta', they are for sure going to be removed. However, I'm probably going to convert all or most of their units into mercenaries or 'Free People', unless I absolutely have to remove some. So the island will be crawling with Briton's units, and you won't be able to build them anywhere else (nor will the AI). That should make Briton one heck of place to conquer, given the time needed to get there, and the AI's ability to load the place up with angry troops having nothing to fight until you show up. At least, that's the plan....

[Tyr]

Will Gaul get a province in the island? Because It will give them something to fallback on. But if they do they will probavly conquer the rebel provinces befor the Human player gets there (unless they are Gaul), so allowing Gaul to reruit British units on the island will still make it unique.

[dvk901]

Tyr, eventually, yes. I think I will put the germans in a region up north, and gaul in one down south..just let them duke it out for the place.

[Tyr]

Germans - in Britain?! Needless to say this isnt historically accurate (probably noticed I'm one of those historic realism fanatics ). Besides that, I thought the main reason for giving gaul a place in Britain was so it had a nice little island to snuggle up in if things got as bit heated on the continent. With those ferocious germans they'll have no where to hide-and the sharing of Britain will probably provoke them in to a war earlier then they normally would. On top of this Germany allready has a 'hiding' place in Scandanavia.
Dont mean to pick a little thing like that out - hell, if i dont like it i can mod it out myself when i download it; but i do think more of a focus on historical accuracy would better compliment this mod, especially with the depth the whole Legion thing adds.

[dvk901]

Hey, I'm a give and take guy No Germans in Briton. You'll probably have a field day with my unit distribution!! But what's a beta for. Thanks for pointing that out. I know a lot about Rome, but my 'other faction' skills are lacking. So have mercy.

[Tyr]

Hey, I'm a give and take guy No Germans in Briton. You'll probably have a field day with my unit distribution!! But what's a beta for. Thanks for pointing that out. I know a lot about Rome, but my 'other faction' skills are lacking. So have mercy.

Good to here, the Gauls should last a long time now, even if it is only on Briton; at the very least they'll remain a thorn in the side of whoever drives them off the contintent. Cant wait to test that BETA.

[Aleric]

heavy cav for britons? instead of those weak chariots...