New Setting for Swords of the East: The Rise of the Diadochi: Successors and Pretenders

[Lucius Malfoy]

Πόλεμος των Διαδόχων
Wars of the Successors

So.. this is more of a brainstorm thread at this point in time, but it may evolve into a proposal.
After much broken discussion between myself and some other members of the RPG forums, LM and I decided to brainstorm and actually get some ideas on paper (or forum thread, whatever). We just want to get the ball rolling.

For those of you who aren't aware, the basic idea for this potential RPG setting would be that our characters (the player characters) are the Generals, Secretaries, Bodyguards, Friends, Vassals, etc of Alexander the Great, rather than Ptolemy, Cassander, Antipater, Antigonos, Seleukos, etc.
The historical 'diadochi' (or 'Successors') don't exist, and our characters replace them.
And yes, characters like Ariobarzanes of Pontus and Arsaces of Parthia are allowed. Persians (and 'sub-Persians' as I'll call them) are allowed.

So... I think this what we thought of so far:
In the context of Military:
We came up with a basic idea here; military is fairly standard, and most people will have access to standard phalanx armies (manned by natives, mind you) and what not, no matter location.
Essentially, for example, Macedon and Greek homeland regions have, of course, better Phalangites, while Persian and other regions have varying degrees of Hellenization and troop pools.
Another idea we had was more complex:
1) Standard Phalangites were normal, and most people have access to them, even if they can be more expensive in certain areas
2) You can have 2 - 3 special troops, like Cataphracts, Indian Elephants, Veteran Macedonian (infantry or cavalry), etc.
However, those are limited by region, and, for example, Macedon can't have Cataphracts or Elephants normally.
Parthia, for a contrast, is rich in cataphracts and the related, and Bactria has pretty easy access to Indian Elephants.

In the context of Religion & Stability:
The regions of the former Achaemenid (Ak-i-men-Id) Persian Empire are at least 90% Zoroastrian in religion, excluding Egypt, the Levant, and parts of Anatolia.
The Greek Regions are, of course, Hellenic as usual in religion.
Through the course of the game, these can merge or expel one another.
Greek Regions can't change (why would they?), but the eastern regions, once hellenized, may create merged religions, like the idea of "Zeus-Ahura Mazda"
(Zoroastrians identifying with Zeus as their Ahura Mazda, and vice-versa).
Or one may try to enforce complete Hellenization, which is somewhat impossible on a regional scale, but possible in urban centers.
Hellenization, from a more obvious POV, impacts military.

More importantly, it affects the popularity of a ruler, which is paramount in this setting.
- Ex. Ptolemy and his successors, while they refused to learn Egyptian, did however portray themselves as living gods (Pharaohs) like the ancient rulers of the Nile.
To contrast, Seleukos (intentional or not, don't know) caused a 'hero cult' among the Greek and urban population of his eponymous empire, and strengthened the rule of his heirs.
- Things like marrying local princesses, befriending chieftains, adopting customs (administrative, traditions, whatever), also help.
If the people don't like you, your kingdom won't last.
More importantly, if you don't have soldiers who love you, you will gobbled up by other Diadochi who do have soldiers who love them.

More Info here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...and-Pretenders

Forum Name: Swords of the East: The Wars of the Successors
An RPG set during the Diadochi Wars and Hellenistic Period
Forum Set-up
- The Palaces of the Successors - The residences of Kings
- From the Balkans to the Indus - The expanses of the Empire
- The Battlefields of the Diadochi - The fields of blood and war
- The Annals - The Archives
- Mod Forum (hidden) - Forum for moderators

Moderators
- Lucius Malfoy
- Honors Bastion
- Jokern
- Barry Goldwater

[Lucius Malfoy]

Setting
Partition of Babylon: The year is 323 and Alexander the Great, conqueror and liberator, the greatest king this world has ever seen, is dead. Illness struck him while in the palace of Nebuchadnezzar II while staying in Babylon. The Partition of the great tracts of land that were liberated and conquered by Alexander III has been done and over with. Yet many remain unsatisfied. Some are uncertain; the successor to Alexander, Philip III, is mentally unstable while his wife, the Princess Roxana, is pregnant with a child whose gender is uncertain. The Argread dynasty's future seems bleak.

Here is the base map for now.


By accordance with this map, characters of Macedonian, Greek and any culture of the former Persian Empire are allowed to be created and used as character's backgrounds. Characters can be hellenized or new additions to the Macedonians ranks.

[Lucius Malfoy]

Character Rules

General Character Rules - A maximum of four main characters (Characters that can hold land) may be allowed - Auxiliary characters are limitless (Can be used to fill up your Council positions and army commanders) - Characters may commit suicide - A death roll will happen when a character turns 50 and each year with a 20% chance of death and after with increasing odds (7% per year) - Birth rolls have a chance birth rate. You may have 1 to 2 birth rolls a year (explained below). Birth Rules Frequency: Due to some religions allowing concubines (A balanced limit of four), there may be the possibility of multiple births. If a character (of Zoroastrian or Egyptian religion) has 1 - 2 wives, they may have 1 birth roll per year. If a character (of Zoroastrian or Egyptian religion) has 3 - 4 wives, they may have up to 2 birth rolls per year. If a character does not follow Zoroastrian or Egyptian religions (that means they may only have 1 wife), they may have 1 birth roll per year. Birth rules Birth Rolls One to two per year (depending on how many wives you have) 1-5: Complications -Secondary roll 1-9: child dies 10-14: child and mother die 15-19: mother dies, child lives 20: Catastrophic failure (see below) --Tertiary Roll 1-8: Child dies, mother barren 9-15: Mother dies, child has defect (dwarfism, useless limb, etc) 16-20: Child has defect, mother barren 6-20: Successful birth Child Deaths One roll every five years until age 15 for a total of three opportunities of death: 1-3: Death 4-20: Life Notes about Characters - Characters may be of any culture that is seen on the map (Macedonian, Hellenized, Greek, Cultures of the former Persian Empire) - Accepted cultures for characters must be within the perimeters of the map (see Map) or requested by moderators

Government Outline and Titles

Government in any form and level is up to the player to decide and create. Try to make government simple for others to read and for the player to handle. While creation is left up to the player, please be reasonable and realistic in what you create, do not be outlandish. A Template for Government Ruler (Kingly and Emperor) Prince and Princesses Royal Council (Chancellor, Marshal, Steward, Spymaster, Clergy) Lesser Nobility (Equivalent to Dukedoms, Baronies and Mayors) Here is a list of titles (Hellenic and Persian associated) that can be used Emperor Level – Padishah, Shahanshah, Basileius, Pharaoh (only 1) King Level – Shah, Hegemon, King, Pharaoh (only 1), Tyrannos Duke Level – Satrap, Megistos, Tyrannos Count Level – Marzban, Archon Religious Level – Priest, High Priest, Oracle Some titles will need special conditions in order for them to be formed (recommended that it be roleplayed out) Any Emperor Level title will need major support from the nobility and populace, large amount of land and maybe a sign from whatever religion you follow (this is roleplayed out).

Military System and Manpower

A player may name their armies and units as they see fit (when armies are mustered and composition completed). A manpower system will be used to allot how many troops a realm will have. Manpower is attached provinces. Provincial Mapower and the Three Manpower Tiers: For this RP< we have three kind of men/soldiers that a province will provide you. This is to represent the types of soldiers that composed the standard army of the era, professional soldiers, allied soldiers and levies or militias mustered to fill in the army. Professionals: As the Professionals, these are the native and regular forces of any kingdom. Their veterancy above that of Allied and Militia troops makes them worthy of being the frontline troops. This earns them a +2 bonus in battles when in their native AOR. Allied: Allied troops, volunteers and mercenaries of subjugated and neighboring tribes and cities, are soldiers that serve where the coin is; the King's purse and the Kingdom they serve, whether it be willing or not. These Allied troops, due to having no major benefits for their service, have no bonuses Levy: Militias, the local garrison forces of kingdoms, are soldiers that are poorly equipped and trained by the Kingdom's military instructors. However, they serve as a strong defense when invaders come to their homelands. This grants a +2 bonus in battles that happened within the limits of the kingdom they serve. Manpower Per Province AOR Regions (by color) Red = Macedonian Light Grey = Greek Purple = Anatolian Light Green = Syrian Blue = Egyptian Yellow = Persia Dark Green = India Dark Grey = Sparta and Crete Provincial Manpower Macedonian AOR: 6,000 men per province (10 provinces) Professional: 3,600 men Allied: 1,600 men Levy: 800 men Greek AOR: 3,500 men per province (6 provinces) Professional: 500 men Allied: 1,000 men Levy: 2,000 men Anatolian AOR: 2,250 men per province (23 provinces) Professional: 750 men Allied: 750 men Levy: 750 men Persian AOR: 2,400 men per province (34 provinces) Professional: 200 men Allied: 800 men Levy: 1,400 men Indian AOR: 2,400 men per province (8 provinces) Professional: 500 men Allied: 1,500 men Levy: 2,500 men Syrian AOR: 3,000 men per province (10 provinces) Professional: 500 men Allied: 1,500 men Levy: 1,000 men Egyptian AOR: 3,000 men per province (13 provinces) Professional: 1,500 men Allied: 500 men Levy: 1,000 men Crete: 6,000 men per province (1 province) Professional: 500 men Allied: 1,500 men Levy: 4,000 men Sparta: 6,000 men per province (1 province) Professional: 3,500 men Allied: 1,500 men Levy: 1,000 men For Siege Battles: Attacking armies will be allotted 50 – 100 points (rolled by a moderator prior to the siege and rounded to the nearest whole number) that can be used to build siege engines. (Siege engines in the following rules tab). For a defender, if your army is away and an opponent is besieging one of your provinces, you shall be granted an allotment of 500 men that can be used as the garrison of your province. These 500 men cannot be used for offensive warfare and will only exist in the event of a siege and your own army is not present for it.

Troop Types and Points

Types of Troops Light Troops (Archers, Peltasts, Slingers, Light Swordsmen, etc) – worth 1 point in battle per man – No more than 50% of your army, Missile units in general are capped at 20% Heavy Troops (Phalangites, Hoplties, Heavy Spearmen, etc) – worth 2 points in battle per man – Capped at no more than 40% of your army (The higher heavy infantry cap is meant to represent the fact that armies during this period were heavy on pike/hoplite units). Cavalry (Light, Heavy, and Missile) – worth 3 points in battle per man – Capped at no more than 20% of your army Elite Troops (Companions, Royal Guard, Immortals, etc) – worth 5 points in battle per man – Capped at no more than 10% of your army Siege engines and points (only available for sieges) Battering Ram: 1 point each Ladders: 2 points each Ballista: 2 points each Siege Towers: 5 points each Catapult: 10 points each Sappers: 20 points each

Battle and Duel Rules (Movement included)

Raising an Army: It takes 12 hours to raise an army Movement: It takes 2 hours for an army to cross through one province. Recovering Losses: Military Points replenish at a rate of 50% each year. Player Set-Up Players must post the layout of their army in the field of battle. This must be divided into three mandatory and one optional component. Mandatory sections are the Left Flank, Center, and Right Flank. These are the three sections that will engage the enemy army. Skirmishing Before the clash of battle, Archers (including Mounted Archers) in each army may skirmish against their foe. Archers may not make up more than 15% of any force. A D10 is rolled for both groups of archers, representing the percentage of the arrows the Archers fire; IE, a 10/10 roll means that 100% of the Archers hit their mark. A D3 is rolled, this one representing how many shots the Bowmen get; IE, 3/3 means that the Archers hit three times. Ex. 10/10 and then 3/3 for a group of 10 Archers means that they cause 30 casualties to the enemy infantry. Unless specifically ordered to only fire on one specific area or group, the casualties are spread out evenly across the flanks of the enemy. Rolling the Battle The Moderator will roll with the following formula for each of the Left, Center and Right combats. Bear in mind that Player 1's Left will engage Player 2's Right, and vice versa. * * * [Score of Soldiers] * [d10 Roll] = Score. Repeat for both sides. Winner with the highest score. Winner dead: ( [Lower Score] / [Higher Score] ) * [Loser's Number of Soldiers]. Dead capped at 15% of [Lesser Force] Loser dead: ( [Higher Score] / [Lower Score] ) * [Winner's Number of Soldiers]. Dead capped at 25% of [Lesser Force] * * * The winner is the player that has two of three sections victorious. Remember the reserve capabilities above: if Player 1's left flank loses and his reserve intervenes, a new battle between Player 2's victorious right and Player 1's advancing Reserve will be rolled. The Aftermath of the Battle If you win the battle, an enemy rout happens depending on whether you have an cavalry or not. If the winner does have cavalry: Roll d10*# of cavalry for routing casualties of the loser. If the winner does not have cavalry (or otherwise stated by a moderator to have little cavalry): The defeated army gets off without any more casualties. Retreating from Battle - A defeated army will retreat to the nearest friendly fort or town. Once there it cannot move for 6 hours. - A defeated army is not permitted to inform other nearby friendly armies of its fate or location of their victorious foe until 6 hours have passed, whether or not they have reached a friendly keep. This is for balance and sportsmanship purposes. - A victorious army may not move for a period of 6 hours. Post-Battle wounded rolls For example, say A/B/C/D are fighting E/F/G. One character to each flank & one to the center, with D also being assigned to the right flank of Army 1 with C. A would then be matched against E, B VS. F, C VS. G, and D would have his fate rolled. The aftermath of battles were a confused state, therefore your character will be given a D20 roll by a mod to determine your individual outcome. (only if a character isn't engaged in a duel) Killed In Action – 1-2/20 (if a 1 is rolled your character is killed and a 2 is mortally wounded) Wounded - 3-7/20 (there will be a further roll to see what type of wound) Captured - 8-12/20 (you are captured by the other side and must be ransomed or escape) Free - 13-20/20 (you get through the battle without being captured or wounded) - Wounded If it is rolled and you are wounded during a battle there shall be another roll under this category to see where the wound is. This roll will only give you a general area, after that it is up to you to RP it. Head wound - 1-5/20 (you have taken some sort of wound to the face or head) Arm wound - 6-10/20 (you have taken some sort of wound to the arms or hands) Leg wound - 11-15/20 (you have taken some sort of wound to the legs or feet) Torso wound - 16-20/20 (you have taken some sot of wound to the back, stomach, chest area.) In the event that the overall leader in command, or one of the section commanders is killed, a negative modifier may be added to the army/army section who losses a commander. The size of the modifier will be determined by moderator discretion. A more central, militarily accomplished character will be more of a loss and blow to morale than an incompetent commander.

Conquest and Annexation Rules

In order to slow down the rate at which players are conquering new provinces and to add consequences to overexpanding, the following rules will be added to the game. Conquest Rules: Each player will start with a realm-wide revolt risk of 0%. Every time that you conquer a province, your revolt risk is increased by a baseline of 10% plus an additional 5% per province that you conquer. Your revolt risk will decrease by 10% each RP year/RL week that passes. Reconquering a lost province does not add revolt risk as long as the reconquest occurs within two years of the initial loss. Annexation Rules: From now on, newly acquired provinces will not automatically grant you access to their military points immediately. In order for you to gain access to them, your revolt risk must be at or below 10%. This means that at minimum, you will have to wait at least one RL week or one RP year in order to use your new military points, assuming you started at 0 revolt risk and conquered a maximum of two provinces in the previous week. Conquering provinces that you lost to another player do not have to be re-annexed as long as it happens within a period of two years after the initial conquest. Revolt Rules: Each new RP year/RL week, a revolt shall be rolled against you using a D*20 roll with the chance of a revolt depending on your revolt risk. For example, a revolt risk of 25%means that a D*20 roll will need a 1-5 in order for a revolt to happen. When asking for a revolt roll each week, factor in the 10% decrease first before you report the value. If a revolt is rolled against you, the size of the revolt will be determined using the following formula. Initial Revolt Composition Roll: D*10 x 5%, maximum points total for rebels is 50% of your total points (If your point total is 2,500 and the roll is 5, that means that the revolt will start off with 625 Troop Points) Later Revolt Composition Roll: D*10 x 5%, maximum points total for rebels is an additional 50% of your total points (This roll will only be done if you fail to defeat the initial revolt within the first RP year/RL week. The reason that we are splitting the revolt into two parts is to allow players to use strategy to defeat a revolt. For example, let's say that a revolt is rolled against you and it composes 25% of your current military points. Your army as it is right now is only about 80% of your current military points due to losses. You are also at war with another at this time, whose army is a threat to yours. You have a decision to make about whether to defeat the revolt and suffer losses, further weakening your host against your opponent, or let the revolt grow while you face and deal with your enemy. Both choices have their benefits and consequences and will hopefully add some interesting RP to the game. There is one benefit to having a revolt happen. If you can defeat either of the revolts, your revolt risk will automatically be reduced to 0%. Movement Penalty: A 5% revolt risk penalty shall be applied every year for having your army raised for a period of three consecutive years or more. This means that you can have your army raised for a period of two weeks without a penalty but keeping them raised for any longer then that will incur a 5% increase to your revolt risk every week. In order for you to not receive this penalty, one full week must pass before you can raise your army again. The only exception to this rule is if you are raising your army in defense of your lands.

Naval Battles

Naval Units Naval Units: Each coastal region will provide 100 points worth of ships. (Number subject to change once we know more about balance) Bireme – 1 point – no cap on composition Trireme – 2 points – no cap on composition Quadrieme – 4 points – A fleet cannot contain more than 15% of these ships. Quintereme – 5 points – A fleet cannot contain more than 10% of these ships. Conducting a Naval Battle Posting your Fleets 1. Navies will be divided into at least three squadrons, the mandatory three being Left, Center and Right. These three mandatory squadrons conduct the main battle, with Player 1's Left fighting Player 2's right, and vice versa, and each Player's Center fighting the opposite Center. 2. An unlimited number of optional squadrons can be created to do any additional task you please. Bear in mind this is the Age of Sail, ships are not very manoeuvrable and cannot easily do things like flanking, disengaging, feinting, etc. Complex orders will be subject to any success rolls or negative modifiers that the rolling Moderator decides are appropriate. 3. Players will post each squadron clearly, along with clear and unambiguous orders. Any interpretation the rolling Moderator is forced to do will be their interpretation alone. Each squadron posted will list the following: - Commander(s) - Ships(s), this includes posting the ship type, number, points value and any troops they are transporting - Order(s) Rolling the Battle The moderator will roll for each side with the following formula: d20 * [Total Points] = Score. The winning side is the side with the higher score. Then, working out ships lost, Winner Ships Lost %: [Lower Score] / [Higher Score] Loser Ships Lost %: [Higher Score] / [Lower Score] Total ships lost is capped at 50% of the [Lesser Force] for both sides. The winner can then capture enemy ships by the following process: d[Number of Loser Ships Lost]*0.25 (eg, if the losing side lost 100 ships, roll d100*0.25) This enables up to 25% of the enemy ships 'killed' to be captured. Split up up evenly among types (eg if the enemy fleet had 100 ships, 80 of Levy Ship and 20 of Dromond, and 10 enemy ships were captured, 8 would be Levy Ships and 2 would be Dromonds. If 20 were captured, 16 Levy and 4 Dromonds. Fair split by ratio.) Aftermath - Player characters undergo standard wounded/captured rolls. - The enemy fleet retreats to the nearest friendly port, or to any other port specified by the losing player provided it is not closer than the nearest friendly port to which the ships would otherwise flee to. The port the ships flee to must, however, be friendly: you cannot 'retreat' to an enemy or neutral port.

Capture Rolls

The success chance of a capture roll will depend upon the location that the roll occurs in. For example, it will be easier to capture someone in your own home thread compared to their home thread. Base Capture Rolls: At your Home (the thread you use to receive visitors): 16/20 At a Neutral Home: 12/20 At Your Enemy’s Home: 4/20 In an Indoor Situation: 10/20 In an Outdoor Situation: 8/20 An 16/20 roll means that a 1-16 is a successful capture and a 17-20 means that they have escaped. Note that these are only the base rolls and a moderator has the liberty to add additional modifiers that can decrease or increase the success of a roll. Examples of such modifiers can include the number of guards being RPed (clearly written) that are in a room to whether or not someone may have been mounted on a horse or carriage etc.

Rules are pretty much done, but I will be asking for players to review them and make sure they make sense.

[Lucius Malfoy]

I am currently searching for a good map; no writing on it. Just a blank map of the area we will be rping in. If anyone would like to give me suggestions, please do.

Also to note: Swords of the East will be the successor name to Swords of India.

[Zectorman]

in like sin

[Ace_General]

Good jesus, how could I of slipped from seeing this

I personally am down for this setting. I think I would like to play as a major claimant as the Attalids/Lysimachus. The postion being in Ionia/Hellespont and Thrace is a strategically interesting postion where you have good access to trade, greek populations, diplomatic opportunities, and areas to expand. Alternatively, I may wish to play as syracuse and unite Magna Grecia, Scily, Crete, and other greek colonies and build a large navy and focus on trade/be a diplomatic spolier, while allying greek city states in Hellas proper and heavily fortifying them and using mercenaries. If I could get the Spartans and their Peloponesian allies in the greater greek alliance, well that could be an interesting situation, given the conflict going on with the successor kings

And how far are we going to expand the map to the west? I personally may play syracuse and would like to have the Carthaginians, Romans, Eprius, and the greek city states.

So, to shorten things up, could I enter the game as an alliance/League of Syracuse, and Greek Colonies in Italy? And also, for major costal cities like Tyre, Syracuse, Athens, Sidon, and (well what will become Alexandria) and Babaylon count as seperate proviences and also have a system of defenses? At this time, you had major cities that made alot of money on trade and were heavily fortified, so maybe we should represent that instead of athens or Tyre or Syracuse being repersented by a blotch on the map that offers the same level of recruitment, $$$, and defensive potiental as a sparsely populated place in say, bactria

[Zectorman]

Setting is the Diadochi....Ace wants to go to Italy...*Point flies over his head*

[Ace_General]

Setting is the Diadochi....Ace wants to go to Italy...*Point flies over his head*

Lol, well the idea is I want to try to build up a Greek alliance to fight back against the macedonians, and Syracuse is the strongest Greek state at this point, not to mention that areas I want to go into, like the Peloponnesus, Crete, and Cyrene were very much in play in the wars of the Diadochi, as were several greek confederations and revolts.

Lol this is actually based on my most successful and fun campagin I played in the Diadochi mod for RTW as Syracuse/Magna Grecia.

Alternativly, an alliance of Rhodes/Athens and various Agean city states would be interesting, perhaps instead of a Dashing macedonian General, I could play as a next-generation Demosthenes

[Ace_General]

Also, here is the EB map

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Hows this for a map, but maybe we subdivide it

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Lucius Malfoy]

Be aware no historical characters. And I actually wanna relatively keep this restricted to the actual Macedonian Empire, Ace. The map itself will already be large enough and, depending on how many wanna sign up for this, I don't wanna stretch the playerbase thin.

So I am gonna sign off on a lot of things right now:
1. NO HISTORICAL CHARACTERS
2. The map will stay the way it is, thus no Italy or anything beyond what is shown here (unless the playerbase becomes large enough that we can have more than what the map will be).
3. We are playing as what I stated above and NOTHING beyond that: our characters (the player characters) are the Generals, Secretaries, Bodyguards, Friends, Vassals, etc of Alexander the Great, rather than Ptolemy, Cassander, Antipater, Antigonos, Seleukos, etc. That means no Syracuse, no Romans, no Italian Greeks, no Carthaginians. What you see on the map is the limit.
4. Greeks, Macedonians, and cultures of the former Persian Empire are allowed, but nothing beyond that. Unless you have a good reason to have a certain character enter from beyond the map.

[Lucius Malfoy]

Hard to edit a map like that. But at least it may help me with provinces. That has always been the biggest trouble for me. Thankfully I am asking a professional cartographer for some tips, just waiting for a reply from him.

I do have a temporary map for now. I am hoping to find something better than what I currently have, but no luck. Hopefully the cartographer I am awaiting a reply from will give me some answers.

[Ace_General]

Hard to edit a map like that. But at least it may help me with provinces. That has always been the biggest trouble for me. Thankfully I am asking a professional cartographer for some tips, just waiting for a reply from him.

I do have a temporary map for now. I am hoping to find something better than what I currently have, but no luck. Hopefully the cartographer I am awaiting a reply from will give me some answers.

I can help you out by giving you a list of major greek cities and their location. I would say you would want Athens, Sparta, Corinth, Rhodes, Byzantium, Tyre, Sidon, Babylon, Thebes(both Egyptian and Greek), Memphis, Alexandria, and Antioch as city-proviences due to their important nature

I would also tentativly suggest you have seveal cities give bonuses or some other advantage due to their prestige/administrative importance. Like holding Alexandria(with the body of Alexander) and Memphis helps control Egypt, Babylon and Susa greater control and recruitment of Persia, the Hellespont trade bonuses, Pella as the capital of Macedonia Proper, and Athens and Corinth the keys to controlling Hellas proper

Also, perhaps what would be useful is to look up the satrapies of the Persian empire, and divide them into 3-4 provinces and have a capital to them. That, along with having major cities delineated as their own provinces would go a long way to filling in the map. (not to mention a system where you have to control all the proviences of a Satrapry to gain all of its income and manpower, and claiming 2/3rds of it gives you a de jure claim to the rest, sorta like dukedomes in CK2)

[Lucius Malfoy]

I can help you out by giving you a list of major greek cities and their location. I would say you would want Athens, Sparta, Corinth, Rhodes, Byzantium, Tyre, Sidon, Babylon, Thebes(both Egyptian and Greek), Memphis, Alexandria, and Antioch as city-proviences due to their important nature

I would also tentativly suggest you have seveal cities give bonuses or some other advantage due to their prestige/administrative importance. Like holding Alexandria(with the body of Alexander) and Memphis helps control Egypt, Babylon and Susa greater control and recruitment of Persia, the Hellespont trade bonuses, Pella as the capital of Macedonia Proper, and Athens and Corinth the keys to controlling Hellas proper

I plan to add such uniqueness as you suggest, Ace. But not only involving prestigious cities and significant areas, but also involving the nation itself.

This was a plan made for the earlier version of this roleplay where nations will get to choose a series of starting doctrines that form what they can have in their armies. Doctrines such as Hellenized Infantry, Persian Recruits, Camel Trainers, Elephant Handlers, etc etc. However, these won't be available to just everyone. For instance, say you are a nation in the Balkans and Macedonian areas, you may have access to a doctrine that allows you to recruit Thracian and Illyrian troops, but you can't have an Elephant training doctrine because you aren't close to where Elephants are known to be. Same goes for Egypt which may have a doctrine for recruiting Nubian soldiers, but this can't be chosen for other nations outside this area.

However, say your Macedonian nation expands far enough to the East where Elephants can be herded. They may be able to take up that doctrine. I am not sure if that will force you to replace a doctrine or not. I am still deciding upon this.

There will also be uniqueness involving religions since there will be a variety (Hellenic gods, Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, Buddhism and even mixtures between religions such as Hellenized Egyptian gods or Hellenized Buddhist pantheon). Culture may also create unique aspects as well.

This will add flavor to the uniqueness of nations as well as armies, society, culture and religion.

[Ace_General]

I plan to add such uniqueness as you suggest, Ace. But not only involving prestigious cities and significant areas, but also involving the nation itself.

This was a plan made for the earlier version of this roleplay where nations will get to choose a series of starting doctrines that form what they can have in their armies. Doctrines such as Hellenized Infantry, Persian Recruits, Camel Trainers, Elephant Handlers, etc etc. However, these won't be available to just everyone. For instance, say you are a nation in the Balkans and Macedonian areas, you may have access to a doctrine that allows you to recruit Thracian and Illyrian troops, but you can't have an Elephant training doctrine because you aren't close to where Elephants are known to be. Same goes for Egypt which may have a doctrine for recruiting Nubian soldiers, but this can't be chosen for other nations outside this area.

However, say your Macedonian nation expands far enough to the East where Elephants can be herded. They may be able to take up that doctrine. I am not sure if that will force you to replace a doctrine or not. I am still deciding upon this.

There will also be uniqueness involving religions since there will be a variety (Hellenic gods, Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, Buddhism and even mixtures between religions such as Hellenized Egyptian gods or Hellenized Buddhist pantheon). Culture may also create unique aspects as well.

This will add flavor to the uniqueness of nations as well as armies, society, culture and religion.

This is really cool. Im thinking with the Agean Hellenic League, basing the military on updated Greek infantry and naval forces(+marines) with significant Thracian and Celtic/Galatian mercenaries and alliances. Sorta like the Greek states, instead of trying to directly copy the Macedonian army, have a force of well equiped and trained (mostly Hellenic) medium infantry to form the core of my army, along with a highly motivated and decently equipped corps of light troops like Peltasts(both Hellenic and Thracian), Creatan arches, Thracian light horsemen and Rhodian slingers, then throw in some Celtic Heavy infantry mercenaries and Thracian/Dacian shock troops to add a tactically flexible, but still formidable punch to my army. '

The Operational concept with this type of force is not to engage the Macedonian Phalanxes and heavy horse in open battle on plains, but rapidly embark and debark from ships as marines, striking cities and trade routes and storming cities, ambushing macedonian forces in wooded and mountainous areas, and when confronted by Diadochi ground armies, using superior mobility to refuse battle or force it upon the macedonians on the terms of the Alliance.

A good analogue for this type of force structure would actually be Hannibals army, but with lower quality calvary.

I would say for military doctrines you should have overall major cultural groups, I.E. Hellenic and Persian, the subgroups, like Macedonian, Classical greek proper, Hellene proper reformed, etc etc. And also have local cultures players can recruit from.

Also, pehraps have available for players to have a doctrine path that allows them to incorporate part of a foriegn culture. Like Partially Hellenized Persian force(sorta like IRL Pontus), or Partially Perizied Hellenic (Like bactria, has access to greek units, but also can recruit some persian type troops and calvary)

[Ace_General]

Hmmm......Also now I think about it, I may go in the direction of a League of Greek City states including Byzantium, Athens, Militus, Pergamon, Rhodes, and some other Agean Islands/Sea of Marmara

[Zectorman]

*Reads LM's last post*

HNnngnghhh

oh man. I need to change.

[Ace_General]

Oh I have to go for tonight, but

The Aegean League, and a free Hellas SHALL RISE AGAIN!

Edit: Question, can we at least have people claim historically logical areas, I mean we dont have to recreate the Successors, but like one dude takes Macedon, another bases the core of his territory on Egypt, another Syria, another messpotamia/Persia and so on

Also, I think I may want to try to conquer the Crimea and try to recruit Sythians into my army.

Say, LM, what about in addition to doctrinal choices, using mercenaries and auxiliaries and settling foreigners(historically, rulers in this time used a huge amount of mercenaries, and settled foreigners and had them render military service, like the greek veteran colonies, or Galatians in Egypt in the Hayum depression)

Edit: Cant sleep

Another interesting thing that occured to me as I was driving home was how is your army going to be recurit and what is the source of Manpower? Like will you have semi professional classical greek/republican roman style Milita, a semi feudal macedonian army(like in macedonia Proper), an army of mercenaries, persian or local levies, helenized locals? And perhaps an abilty to mix such this, based on what the players want and your local area, so you can get interesting armies like Bactria in Europa Barbaroum

[Lucius Malfoy]

Now this is gonna be tough in terms of making up doctrine and ideas. Trying to figure out everything and matching ideas up will be quite the challenge, but it can be done. I ask all of you to give me sensible ideas that either add in the ability to recruit a group of units or a certain unit (Ex: Cataphract Training as a certain unit and Thracian Auxiliaries as a group of units).

I also aim for some (the goal is all) regions to have special and unique doctrines. Like those neighboring India could get access to Indian Elephants while Egypt has access to African ones. Balkans would have access to Thracian and Illyrian Auxiliaries. Anatolia would have Bithynia Hillmen. Egypt may also have access specifically to Nubian troops. You get the point.

[Xion]

I'd prefer setting one as I feel this setting may be better for intrigue and other non-war elements with players competing for various court positions most likely trying to supplant the reigning Regent with an ally or themselves, plotting independence from Macedon especially for non-Macedonian/Greek characters or Macedonian/Greeks who become like Ptolemy I and adopt some native customs or go fully native in their rule, maybe fighting each other over land one party feels another desires, or maybe even fighting a civil war to replace Alexander IV with Phillip III for some reason. This sounds more balanced than the relatively war-focused second setting at least until someone reforms the empire or kindgoms consisting of several players are formed. The downside is if Alexander IV survives to adulthood it may end up feeling a lot like a feudal game to some with the players(or most of them depending on what occurs from Alexander's birth to his coronation) under him.

As of right now, I'm thinking of being something in the east.

Doctrine unit/ideas :
Perhaps something involving the Galatians similar to the Ptolemaic Kingdom granting them land in the Klerouch system? Players could get a Galatian elite infantry unit?
Scythed Chariots
Missile focus(stronger peltasts/archers/slingers, weaker phalangites?)
Baktria region - Indian troops besides elephants?

Saba(that faction in Yemen from EB) mercenaries?
(Re)form the Immortals(or something else entirely) for Persian rulers/Adopt some aspects of the Persian Empire's military doctrine?
Steppe Horse Archers(Dahae, Parthians, Scythians depending on region.)
..I'll try to think of some other ones.

[Lucius Malfoy]

I'd prefer setting one as I feel this setting may be better for intrigue and other non-war elements with players competing for various court positions most likely trying to supplant the reigning Regent with an ally or themselves, plotting independence from Macedon especially for non-Macedonian/Greek characters or Macedonian/Greeks who become like Ptolemy I and adopt some native customs or go fully native in their rule, maybe fighting each other over land one party feels another desires, or maybe even fighting a civil war to replace Alexander IV with Phillip III for some reason. This sounds more balanced than the relatively war-focused second setting at least until someone reforms the empire or kindgoms consisting of several players are formed. The downside is if Alexander IV survives to adulthood it may end up feeling a lot like a feudal game to some with the players(or most of them depending on what occurs from Alexander's birth to his coronation) under him.

As of right now, I'm thinking of being something in the east.

Doctrine unit/ideas :
Perhaps something involving the Galatians similar to the Ptolemaic Kingdom granting them land in the Klerouch system? Players could get a Galatian elite infantry unit?
Scythed Chariots
Missile focus(stronger peltasts/archers/slingers, weaker phalangites?)
Baktria region - Indian troops besides elephants?

Saba(that faction in Yemen from EB) mercenaries?
(Re)form the Immortals(or something else entirely) for Persian rulers/Adopt some aspects of the Persian Empire's military doctrine?
Steppe Horse Archers(Dahae, Parthians, Scythians depending on region.)
..I'll try to think of some other ones.

I would rather it be the destabilized rule of Philip III when the first wars begin or after the death of Alexander IV and the usurping regent. I wanna make sure that the empire falls apart and we work to make our own nations. This is the setting that would be done. That way we don't have to worry about uncertainties or ifs/buts. I feel I would lean more towards Alexander IV so that way Macedon is up for grabs.

As for your ideas, I like them!