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    Dante Von Hespburg's Avatar Sloth's Inferno
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    Default The 'economic' Kings in the North (They wish...)

    So am rather reeling from watching BBC this morning. Chancellor George Osborne has seemingly remembered there is indeed a 'North' of England, and their actually going to potentially do something quite radical (and long overdue with it):

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27969885

    Just for a brush down on the major parts spoken about (to be honest what more capped my interest was the devolution of power in the Northern cities to their mayors- based on the London-Boris model, which for all you may think of him has been amazingly successful for 'The' City), but beyond that interview i can't actually find anything written yet.

    Anyway so the idea being that linking all the major Northern cities together will 'economically geographically balance' (Don't use that as a slogan) the UK. Something which yes, does desperately need doing. Especially in the North of England (Traditionally it's been overlooked in favor of us in Scotland who right now are doing relatively well...and of course everything is overlooked in favour of the South-East..because let's face it London and that area are the economic bread-basket of the UK).

    http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpo...anced-economy/ (fantastic paper on the issue)

    In the wake of the economic crisis and Great Recession, there has been much talk of spatial re-balancing the UK economy from South to North. The ‘re-balancing’ mantra is far from new, however; the British economy has long been skewed towards London and the surrounding South East region and. In a recent paper, Ron Martin, Ben Gardiner, Peter Sunley and Peter Tyler document how the degree of spatial imbalance in Britain’s economy is both real and has continued to widen. However, the various policy measures introduced over the past three years or so do not add up to a coherent and effective response. The solution to the problem will require addressing the fundamental constraints preventing the re-balancing of the United Kingdom – both sectorally and spatially.
    So with this in mind, will Osbournes ideas of greater and faster infrastructural links between the big northern cities actually make much difference? Will it have the desired effect of allowing all three combined to rival Londons economic dominance and so even out investment in the UK? Will it mean that foreign investors will perhaps pick Manchester over London?

    At the moment i personally can't see faster rail (HS3) doing much good towards this on it's own. It seems to me to be one of those 'small measures' that the academic paper talks about.

    Now while the Chancellor did say that the government are also looking at investing in Science and research up North- that's nothing concrete seemingly, just a statement.

    And that's what's worrying. This needs to be done, but i rather suspect some of it is due to the elections drawing near and a coalition desperate to regain some popular support. This idea of course seems to be aimed at stealing some Labour voters away (however briefly) and reminding everyone the government's thinking of you...

    Doesn't it warm the cockles of your heart?

    Whatever the reason. The annoying this is, one way or another one political party or another (i don't really care who) this really does need to get done. It's long overdue for the UK who after dismantling it's Northern industrial bases, never really put back anything to replace them economically...thus the drain and favour now given to London and the South East (which Scotland managed to mostly escape from by getting it's own legislative body...who have far more power than any county council...and indeed are seeking far more).

    The question is, is this the right way to go about it? Especially given the controversy over HS2 (which i believe has been proven to not actually provide the economic boom it was sold as providing?) Faster rail links are great, but their not exactly a sweeping change to the northern economic landscape, and indeed even together can the Northern cities ever hope to redress the balance against London?

    Especially considering:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25879681

    The economic gap between London and the rest of the UK is widening because other cities are "punching below their weight", according to research.London has created 10 times more private sector jobs than any other city since 2010, analysis by the Centre for Cities found.
    The think tank is calling for more power to be devolved to the regions.
    London appears to "suck talent from the rest of the country", the report says, with many young people never returning to their home towns.Edinburgh and Birmingham were the next best performing cities in terms of private sector job creation, with Aberdeen also featuring in the top ten.
    and:

    http://www.theguardian.com/business/...her-uk-regions
    Capital's economy forecast to expand by 15% over the next five years, accounting for almost a third of all UK growth
    In a way, i see these measures falling for to short of the spoken intentions. What do you guys think?
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    Default Re: The 'economic' Kings in the North (They wish...)

    The north is dying on its arse.

    I've lived there for most of my life, virtually all of my friends who went to University, have like me, moved away to find worthwhile employment.

    There are a lot of people who feel marginalised and forgotten about. Especially among the white working class - which is where the UKIP & BNP support comes from. There are a lot of people, and a lot of my friends, who have a pretty bleak future, because they're not the brightest people, and with the industrial jobs gone, they've not go much chance of work.
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    caratacus's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: The 'economic' Kings in the North (They wish...)

    I don't want to be a cynic here, but do you actually think that a government within a year of coming to the end of its term in office and a great debate about whether or not to go ahead with HS2, has suddenly seen the benefits of placing a greater emphasis on regional development!? Doesn't the timing of this announcement, so quick after the meeting with the Chinese to recieve millions of pounds of investment in HS2, seem a little to co-incidental perhaps!? Osborne has probably recieved more money than expected from those Sugar Daddies of the Orient and has thought it would be worthwhile to expand the line further to include Leeds. Next move by Osborne a quick phone call to his Eaton chums to start buying up vacant land in Yorkshire to make a killing in speculation, or perhaps he's already done that.

    Perhaps it's just as well that those Yorkists will get a good link to the North's unofficial capital in Lancashire, Manchester. Seriously though,If this was part of logical strategic thinking, Leeds would need a rail connection to the Birmingham HS2 line through Sheffield and the East Midlands, not to Manchester.. .stupid idea.
    Last edited by caratacus; June 23, 2014 at 05:58 AM.

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    Default Re: The 'economic' Kings in the North (They wish...)

    I don't know, Northumbria will rise again, and reclaim parts of the recalcitrant Lowlands?
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    caratacus's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: The 'economic' Kings in the North (They wish...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Condottiere 40K View Post
    I don't know, Northumbria will rise again, and reclaim parts of the recalcitrant Lowlands?
    Well if Northumbria (that ancient Anglo-Saxon Kingdom between Lothian and the River Humber) were to do that, it would need a HS2 link to York, Newcastle and Edinburgh. But for the mean time and without Osborne requiring an extra long red carpet, we would settle for a good road between Edinburgh and the rest of the Kingdom, which has been promised for the last 20 years.

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    Default Re: The 'economic' Kings in the North (They wish...)

    Quote Originally Posted by caratacus View Post
    Well if Northumbria (that ancient Anglo-Saxon Kingdom between Lothian and the River Humber) were to do that, it would need a HS2 link to York, Newcastle and Edinburgh. But for the mean time and without Osborne requiring an extra long red carpet, we would settle for a good road between Edinburgh and the rest of the Kingdom, which has been promised for the last 20 years.
    Nah let's just invest more in London.



    Seriously though I think the Conservatives & Labour have come to recognize that London & the South East aren't the only places in the UK that vote. Instead they have to appeal to the rest of the UK too, e.g. by promising regional development. I think things like expanding High Speed Rail are important, although maybe a better idea would be to start building from Scotland & the North towards the southern line, then to link the two up. It'd be quicker than just slowly extending the southern line up, and would a more immediate impression that something is being done. Of course for the rest of the UK to truly become competitive there's probably going to have to be devolution of things such as corporation tax - whether or not this is actually done is another issue.
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    Dante Von Hespburg's Avatar Sloth's Inferno
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    Default Re: The 'economic' Kings in the North (They wish...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hookah Smoking Caterpiller View Post
    The north is dying on its arse.

    I've lived there for most of my life, virtually all of my friends who went to University, have like me, moved away to find worthwhile employment.

    There are a lot of people who feel marginalised and forgotten about. Especially among the white working class - which is where the UKIP & BNP support comes from. There are a lot of people, and a lot of my friends, who have a pretty bleak future, because they're not the brightest people, and with the industrial jobs gone, they've not go much chance of work.

    I think that's a fair summation of how things stand at the moment Hookah. I also think you've hit the nail on the head as to why the Tories are suddenly interested in the North- UKIP. They need to show that their not totally forgotten about (As if it's going to change voters minds and make up for the last decade or so). The brain drain as you've pointed out is quite crippling too, it's a bad cycle- not enough decent jobs due to lack of educated investors- educated investors leave due to lack of decent jobs. All the while the government sit back and don't step in to try and help out the local economies in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by caratacus View Post
    I don't want to be a cynic here, but do you actually think that a government within a year of coming to the end of its term in office and a great debate about whether or not to go ahead with HS2, has suddenly seen the benefits of placing a greater emphasis on regional development!? Doesn't the timing of this announcement, so quick after the meeting with the Chinese to recieve millions of pounds of investment in HS2, seem a little to co-incidental perhaps!? Osborne has probably recieved more money than expected from those Sugar Daddies of the Orient and has thought it would be worthwhile to expand the line further to include Leeds. Next move by Osborne a quick phone call to his Eaton chums to start buying up vacant land in Yorkshire to make a killing in speculation, or perhaps he's already done that.

    Perhaps it's just as well that those Yorkists will get a good link to the North's unofficial capital in Lancashire, Manchester. Seriously though,If this was part of logical strategic thinking, Leeds would need a rail connection to the Birmingham HS2 line through Sheffield and the East Midlands, not to Manchester.. .stupid idea.
    Haha you cynic you Caractacus... though to be honest i partly do think your right. The whole discussion is happening now due to the elections coming up. I'm betting it'll be a sort of 'promise if you vote for us' sort of deal. Especially as the coalition isn't actually too popular in the North. And again your quite right in pointing out if there was going to be some true revival of the Norths economy...well one HS3 line ins't exactly going to do wonders, its just more tid-bits that lack any kind of overall coherent plan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazzeer View Post
    Nah let's just invest more in London.



    Seriously though I think the Conservatives & Labour have come to recognize that London & the South East aren't the only places in the UK that vote. Instead they have to appeal to the rest of the UK too, e.g. by promising regional development. I think things like expanding High Speed Rail are important, although maybe a better idea would be to start building from Scotland & the North towards the southern line, then to link the two up. It'd be quicker than just slowly extending the southern line up, and would a more immediate impression that something is being done. Of course for the rest of the UK to truly become competitive there's probably going to have to be devolution of things such as corporation tax - whether or not this is actually done is another issue.
    This is why i love you...r posts man

    Voting wise- your spot on, its as if the Coalition conciousness (and indeed that of Labour) has realized that there's more to the UK than the South-east, and that in many places a lot of people are dissatisfied (perhaps we're seeing the effects of that UKIP 'surge') The rail way line though i'd actually argue is less of an issue than as to your other point in terms of economically bringing the rest of the UK out of the mire and at least partly into Londons economic light. That being the devolution of powers. Which was something i find incredibly interesting, especially when it came to such things as the Mayoral capacity of these major Northern cities being potentially expanded.

    Also found this a while ago:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...51/1793908.pdf

    Interesting stuff on the devolved 'vision' of the coalition to give Britain back it's power:

    The Localism BillThough the levers of power are now in the hands
    of the Coalition Government, ministers must resist
    the temptation to tinker. The answer to overbearing
    bureaucracy is abolition, not reform. This is the
    approach taken in the Localism Bill which will
    scrap several instruments of top-down control:
    • Regional strategies – the Localism Bill will
    abolish top-down regional targets in favour
    of democratic local decision-making and
    replace millions of words of documentation
    with focused local plans that reflect the local
    area’s vision.
    • The Standards Board regime – The Bill
    will abolish this costly, centrally-imposed
    regime, allowing councils to devise their own
    regimes to govern propriety and behaviour
    and empowering local people to hold their
    elected representatives to account.
    • The ‘predetermination’ rules – The Bill will
    end the absurd situation where councillors are
    prevented from acting on local issues because
    of the risk of challenge that they are biased.
    Wider reform
    The Localism Bill builds upon the earlier DCLG
    decision to abolish the Comprehensive Area
    Assessment, the Local Area Agreements and
    the Audit Commission – a hugely complex and
    expensive system of performance data sets, targets
    and inspection used by central government to
    control local government.
    Departments across Whitehall are identifying and
    abolishing other unjustifiable and unaffordable
    systems of top-down control. A proper distinction
    will be made between the bureaucracy of
    micromanagement and the regulation that is
    required to ensure public safety and protect the
    vulnerable. But even in the latter case we will
    ensure that central government powers are applied
    sensitively and proportionately so that they do
    not do more harm than good – health and safety
    legislation serving as a key example.
    Just a tid bit. But it does sound like (despite my own misgivings, i'm actually somewhat in agreeance with Caratacus that nothing will truly be implemented properly) things are gearing up for a decentralized power sharing with local government.
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    Default Re: The 'economic' Kings in the North (They wish...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Von Hespburg View Post
    This is why i love you...r posts man
    Aw shucks


    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Von Hespburg View Post
    Voting wise- your spot on, its as if the Coalition conciousness (and indeed that of Labour) has realized that there's more to the UK than the South-east, and that in many places a lot of people are dissatisfied (perhaps we're seeing the effects of that UKIP 'surge') The rail way line though i'd actually argue is less of an issue than as to your other point in terms of economically bringing the rest of the UK out of the mire and at least partly into Londons economic light. That being the devolution of powers. Which was something i find incredibly interesting, especially when it came to such things as the Mayoral capacity of these major Northern cities being potentially expanded.
    Yeah I agree. HS2 is more symbolic than anything else (for the North/Scotland anyways), as its more immediate implications are that it allows for instance moving more of the civil service out of London to places such as Birmingham. That being said infrastructure investment is always nice. But yes, more is required. The Lib Dems had an interesting report on the issue (somewhat sadly, given they won't be in any position to deliver it) where they recommended essentially the ability to local authorities to group together to form entities that could request greater devolved powers. So, e.g., the various authorities of Yorkshire could group together and essentially request greater powers, which would then continually increase, until equal to places such as Scotland. I would link to the document but I seem to be having difficulty finding it atm. Like I said though it likely doesn't matter given Lib Dem electoral prospects.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Von Hespburg View Post
    Just a tid bit. But it does sound like (despite my own misgivings, i'm actually somewhat in agreeance with Caratacus that nothing will truly be implemented properly) things are gearing up for a decentralized power sharing with local government.
    I'm of a similar opinion. It's one thing to talk about decentralising power. It's another thing to do it. When they get to London Governments have a tendency to go native, so to speak.


    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Crane! View Post
    All of this talk of the motivation being political in nature well I would like that one explained a bit more as a surface look doesn't make any sense. Conservatives don't win up here, as far as I am aware they never have and never will beyond a few council seats or mayoral elections. So why would they try a last minute ditch? Certainly offering more than Labour ever did but that won't win them any seats. Is it the hope that they can soften Labour up a little bit for UKIP, I mean I guess but I don't think it is likely.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Von Hespburg View Post
    I rather do feel that might be the case. Surely it's all a bit too convenient. Perhaps cynical, but elections are coming up and the big parties are desperate to curtail or buy off UKIP. While they may not win seats, perhaps their looking at the long game 'New Tories', showing traditional labour strongholds that they perhaps have their interests at heart in a more meaningful way than Labour? Especially in the context that UKIP are potentially going to run roughshod of the traditional Tory heartlands.
    I think Dante's spot on. Whilst Conservatives are unlikely to be making any breakthroughs in the North of England any time soon, I think this is part of a long game. Essentially the recent show of force by UKIP in the recent elections (e.g. in Sunderland, where in the 2014 local elections they came 2nd in terms of votes) makes the Conservatives, rightly or wrongly, believe that there is a possibility that they can some day woo the North. As Dante very rightly points out, the Conservatives are currently trying to rebrand themselves as a more working man's style conservative party. This is part of portraying themselves as a far more National party, as opposed to a party of the South East.
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    Default Re: The 'economic' Kings in the North (They wish...)

    perhaps the north should combine with the Scots

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    Default Re: The 'economic' Kings in the North (They wish...)

    I still feel that unless the UK becomes somewhat federal in structure (and not just England/Wales/Scotland/NI) then areas like the North will slip through the cracks. London is where all the money and skill workers go. Giving councils a bit more powers won't change that. Giving regions both the political and economic powers to manage their own destinies will. Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have done pretty well out of devolution. Lets give other parts of the UK that chance.
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    Default Re: The 'economic' Kings in the North (They wish...)

    Few quick points as I am busy

    ->What North would that be? Manchester or the increasingly successful economic North West? Yorkshire? There are some other places in the North, sure there are even a few cities but I just can't remember the names. Fairly certain they are never mentioned apart from football. Begins with an N....umcastle? Maybe?

    ->But seriously the scientific boom is already happening. We have a city being built within a city right next to St James Park and it is all Science and Business University development along with the famous Borehole heating infrastructure.

    ->We could indeed just do with a main road up to Edinburgh instead of the winding country laughingly named "A" 1.

    -> All of this talk of the motivation being political in nature well I would like that one explained a bit more as a surface look doesn't make any sense. Conservatives don't win up here, as far as I am aware they never have and never will beyond a few council seats or mayoral elections. So why would they try a last minute ditch? Certainly offering more than Labour ever did but that won't win them any seats. Is it the hope that they can soften Labour up a little bit for UKIP, I mean I guess but I don't think it is likely.

    -> There is a big investment in the Tyne and some new industry here but that is coming through the regional economic investment fund.

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    Default Re: The 'economic' Kings in the North (They wish...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Crane! View Post
    Few quick points as I am busy
    It's quite alright mate, any of your points are welcome.

    ->What North would that be? Manchester or the increasingly successful economic North West? Yorkshire? There are some other places in the North, sure there are even a few cities but I just can't remember the names. Fairly certain they are never mentioned apart from football. Begins with an N....umcastle? Maybe?

    ->But seriously the scientific boom is already happening. We have a city being built within a city right next to St James Park and it is all Science and Business University development along with the famous Borehole heating infrastructure.
    Haha true enough mate, i apologize for generalizing . But while indeed i can see there are things being done to invest in the north of England, i don't think it's enough, and lets face it, it's really to bring the country to any economic balance regionally. It's why of the big issues the UK has.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25879681

    The economic gap between London and the rest of the UK is widening because other cities are "punching below their weight", according to research.London has created 10 times more private sector jobs than any other city since 2010, analysis by the Centre for Cities found.
    The think tank is calling for more power to be devolved to the regions.
    Its research found almost a third of people aged between 22 and 30 who moved cities headed for London.
    There needs to be far more done to reverse things.

    Though i will indeed look into the specific examples of York and Newcastle! I admit i was unaware of the research investment.

    ->We could indeed just do with a main road up to Edinburgh instead of the winding country laughingly named "A" 1.
    That would definitely be something i could get behind!

    -> All of this talk of the motivation being political in nature well I would like that one explained a bit more as a surface look doesn't make any sense. Conservatives don't win up here, as far as I am aware they never have and never will beyond a few council seats or mayoral elections. So why would they try a last minute ditch? Certainly offering more than Labour ever did but that won't win them any seats. Is it the hope that they can soften Labour up a little bit for UKIP, I mean I guess but I don't think it is likely.
    I rather do feel that might be the case. Surely it's all a bit too convenient. Perhaps cynical, but elections are coming up and the big parties are desperate to curtail or buy off UKIP. While they may not win seats, perhaps their looking at the long game 'New Tories', showing traditional labour strongholds that they perhaps have their interests at heart in a more meaningful way than Labour? Especially in the context that UKIP are potentially going to run roughshod of the traditional Tory heartlands.

    -> There is a big investment in the Tyne and some new industry here but that is coming through the regional economic investment fund.
    This i'm searching up now, as it sounds an interesting scheme. Is it anything to do with the whole regional legislative devolution?
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    Default Re: The 'economic' Kings in the North (They wish...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Von Hespburg View Post
    It's quite alright mate, any of your points are welcome.



    Haha true enough mate, i apologize for generalizing . But while indeed i can see there are things being done to invest in the north of England, i don't think it's enough, and lets face it, it's really to bring the country to any economic balance regionally. It's why of the big issues the UK has.
    Oh not even close I've just gotten used to being greatful for small mercies!

    There needs to be far more done to reverse things.

    Though i will indeed look into the specific examples of York and Newcastle! I admit i was unaware of the research investment.


    That would definitely be something i could get behind!



    I rather do feel that might be the case. Surely it's all a bit too convenient. Perhaps cynical, but elections are coming up and the big parties are desperate to curtail or buy off UKIP. While they may not win seats, perhaps their looking at the long game 'New Tories', showing traditional labour strongholds that they perhaps have their interests at heart in a more meaningful way than Labour? Especially in the context that UKIP are potentially going to run roughshod of the traditional Tory heartlands.

    This i'm searching up now, as it sounds an interesting scheme. Is it anything to do with the whole regional legislative devolution?
    Honestly I have not been keeping up with it. I suspect this has been in planning for a number of years and since it is coming from the supra national level I doubt it has anything to do with that. The regeneration of the old Swan Hunter shipyard area has been in the running for a decade or more. Badly needed - incidentally right on my doorstep.

    On the political side of things nothing is selling me on the cynical interpretation because I am struggling to see any gain. At best they can hope to snip a few votes of Labour but for what?

    Don't feel like I am getting my point across as well as this image could:

    Check out the NE.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...tical-map.html

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    Default Re: The 'economic' Kings in the North (They wish...)

    The North should be divided into the North West and the North East, with Yorkshire probably split between the two (it'll drive them crazy, but whatever).
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    Default Re: The 'economic' Kings in the North (They wish...)

    You could but it wouldn't make much sense. The North East is a crazy insular place. Leeds and the southern north east, anything away from Middlesbrough on have more to do with Sheffield and Manchester than the North East in my experience.

    If we are talking for administrative purposes I guess but I get the feeling Leeds would enjoy it more than we do.

    If in terms of infrastructure spending I think it was you who mentioned Edinburgh, right now that is the biggest thing I could wish for. An improved A69 would be nice but it'll never happen. Road wise the A1 south is great, very few choke points.

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    Default Re: The 'economic' Kings in the North (They wish...)

    If we win the world cup the UK could join the US.

    Just a thought.
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    Default Re: The 'economic' Kings in the North (They wish...)

    Mmmm I just don't think they would start with the NE where they have zero seats (have they ever?).

    Is it possible, just possible, that they actually thought something needed done?

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    Default Re: The 'economic' Kings in the North (They wish...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Crane! View Post
    Oh not even close I've just gotten used to being greatful for small mercies!
    Hahai know what you mean there Denny, i was just shocked this morning that Osborne noticed there was a North of England!

    Honestly I have not been keeping up with it. I suspect this has been in planning for a number of years and since it is coming from the supra national level I doubt it has anything to do with that. The regeneration of the old Swan Hunter shipyard area has been in the running for a decade or more. Badly needed - incidentally right on my doorstep.

    On the political side of things nothing is selling me on the cynical interpretation because I am struggling to see any gain. At best they can hope to snip a few votes of Labour but for what?

    Don't feel like I am getting my point across as well as this image could:

    Check out the NE.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...tical-map.html
    In the words of a famous scholar- 'Dat Map'. That's a mighty fine Labour pocket in the North East there. I think i can see what your saying now. 2010 was pretty much a slaughter-fest for Labour if i remember rightly, so we're looking at the diehard areas- places where this will affect and still the Tories won't make much of an impact (Because Thatcher..yeah..).

    Saying that though perhaps i'm just being too skeptical, but i still think this is tinged with a political edge. It was interesting in the interview itself when he was questioned on the timing that he rather quickly sped on. I really think we're seeing the Tories reach out to touch their traditional foes. Not perhaps a bad thing at all.

    But hey, as long as good will come of it i'm in support of any measures such as this! (Providing it's not a lib-dem tuition fee type promise...)

    http://www.manchestereveningnews.co....nounce-7308026

    As a side note. I see what you mean Denny about no love for Newcastle, you always seem to be missed out in statements

    But indeed if reinvestment is starting to happen as you, all i can say is finally. I'm just hoping they have a comprehensive plan to follow, and now just a series of small tid-bits and schemes with no overall aim.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lazzeer View Post
    Aw shucks
    Haha your welcome mate

    Yeah I agree. HS2 is more symbolic than anything else (for the North/Scotland anyways), as its more immediate implications are that it allows for instance moving more of the civil service out of London to places such as Birmingham. That being said infrastructure investment is always nice. But yes, more is required. The Lib Dems had an interesting report on the issue (somewhat sadly, given they won't be in any position to deliver it) where they recommended essentially the ability to local authorities to group together to form entities that could request greater devolved powers. So, e.g., the various authorities of Yorkshire could group together and essentially request greater powers, which would then continually increase, until equal to places such as Scotland. I would link to the document but I seem to be having difficulty finding it atm. Like I said though it likely doesn't matter given Lib Dem electoral prospects.
    Indeed, to be honest, given the two i'd rather they have forgot HS2 and just started this HS3 + better infrastructure up North idea. I think the capital would have been far better invested where we'd see real a major change instead of one where it's arguable if we really need it (yet).

    That sounds really intriguing mate, if you can dig it up, please feel free to send me a link. No worries if you can't find it though . But something like that would actually be a fantastic way of devolving power in a workable (and eventually) economically and political stable way. With gradual build up of co-operation, powers and area. No mass legislative panic. See it's things like this that make me annoyed that the Lib-Dems committed political suicide. They do have some good ideas. But yeah, i can rather see them disappearing behind the Greens if they can't make some major U-turn this next election.

    I'm of a similar opinion. It's one thing to talk about decentralising power. It's another thing to do it. When they get to London Governments have a tendency to go native, so to speak.
    Totally agree. What i always find quite ironic too is that London's success currently is actually partly attributed to it's devolved powers anyway! So it's not even as if they don't have a real model to follow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Crane! View Post
    Mmmm I just don't think they would start with the NE where they have zero seats (have they ever?).

    Is it possible, just possible, that they actually thought something needed done?
    Blasphemy Denny. Stop shaking my world view!
    House of Caesars: Under the Patronage of Char Aznable

    Proud Patron of the roguishly suave Gatsby


  19. #19
    Lazzeer's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: The 'economic' Kings in the North (They wish...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Von Hespburg View Post
    That sounds really intriguing mate, if you can dig it up, please feel free to send me a link. No worries if you can't find it though . But something like that would actually be a fantastic way of devolving power in a workable (and eventually) economically and political stable way. With gradual build up of co-operation, powers and area. No mass legislative panic. See it's things like this that make me annoyed that the Lib-Dems committed political suicide. They do have some good ideas. But yeah, i can rather see them disappearing behind the Greens if they can't make some major U-turn this next election.
    I found it! It's in one of their 2014 Spring Conference Papers - p.39 onwards specifically. Yeah they're probably going to disappear, but who knows, maybe the disintegration of the Lib Dems might offer possible infiltration of the Conservatives? I think Dan Hannan favours devolution to English counties too (although I imagine his approach is more top-down, rather than bottom up).

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Crane! View Post
    The terror of being in a giant block of safe seats.
    I know that feeling.... for Westminster elections at least.
    As far as I can tell, your entire enterprise is little more than a solitary man with a messy apartment which may or may not contain a chicken.

    It's all fun and games until people start getting eaten

  20. #20
    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: The 'economic' Kings in the North (They wish...)

    Today I see a proposed high speed line from leeds to manchester.

    Imagine my shock that new plans forget about...about...ne...num...neo....that place I live.

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