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Thread: Which additional city should be in improved map?

  1. #21

    Default Re: Which additional city should be in improved map?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fedual View Post
    You guys have great ideas going, though i doubt they will be realised by SEGA, i would for starters just like to see Syracuse as the capital of Magna Graecia with walls instead of Brundisium, also a custom battle map for Syracuse would be much apreciated.
    Yes, Magna Graecia is a shame. Here is a custom battle map of Syracuse. You can also play a custom siege battle and the mighty walls are really not easy to scale.

    Syracuse from the quarries (with the great harbour to the right):


    Syrcuse from the Athenian camp with the island of Ortygia in the background:


    Syracuse from Ortygia (with Mount Aetna puffing smoke in the background):
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  2. #22
    LestaT's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Which additional city should be in improved map?

    So the best suggestion is more siegefest ?

    Thank you. I'll pass.
    Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth. - Marcus Aurelius


  3. #23
    kamikazee786's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Which additional city should be in improved map?

    improvements to carthage and new city maps altogether for Syracuse and Jerusalem !!!
    If you work to earn a living, why then do you work yourself to death?

  4. #24

    Default Re: Which additional city should be in improved map?

    Quote Originally Posted by ^OvO^ View Post
    So the best suggestion is more siegefest ?

    Thank you. I'll pass.
    Screw history. Let's make the game easy!

  5. #25

    Default Re: Which additional city should be in improved map?

    Quote Originally Posted by ^OvO^ View Post
    So the best suggestion is more siegefest ?

    Thank you. I'll pass.
    Yes, that would seem to be the result, but surprisingly it isn't.

    With a number of land bridges, additional mountain passes and an increased number of light forest squares (for ambush), especially in densely populated areas like Greece and Italy, you can have a lot more ambush and/or open field battles than you'd expect. There will be many sieges, of course (like in real history), but four times out of five a relief force will attack the besiegers in the back, and that will always result in an open field battle.
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  6. #26
    Errabundi's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Which additional city should be in improved map?

    Me, personally, I'm missing Miletus, one of the most important cities of Western Anatolia and cradle of many towns around Mediterranean. Number two is of course Capua, which is a shame that doesn't exist in game.

    Considering siege-fest; I'm more up to historical accuracy than gamey solutions, especially when game bases on history. But if someone doesn't like sieges, there should be option to threaten a city and force to surrender. Not to mention spy action "open the gates"...
    So finally I bought Total War: Rome 2. Regarding I payed 7.5$ for it, it's not a bad game at all!

  7. #27

    Default Re: Which additional city should be in improved map?

    Improvement first to Syracuse and Jerusalem...

    Then add Corinth and Thebes City....

  8. #28

    Default Re: Which additional city should be in improved map?

    Quote Originally Posted by ABH2 View Post
    ... Halicarnassus, some representation of the Greek islands besides Crete, ... Corinth may suffice for the Peloponnese, but there were some other major cities related to the Achaean League. Amphipolis would fit in nicely....
    Quote Originally Posted by RexImperator View Post
    Good point about the Greek islands, there should be an Aegean island province composed of Samos, Chios, Lesbos and Delos and one in the Ionian containing Corcyra, Zacynthus and Cephallenia. Euboea should also be an island region in the Greece province. Peloponesse should be a seperate province with at lest 3 regions. I'd like to see Chalcidice as a region of Macedon. Dardania as a region for Illyria, Akarnania in N-West Greece. Add Thebes/Boetia region to Greece, maybe add Delphi as well. ...
    Quote Originally Posted by perifanosEllinas View Post
    Some great ideas here guys.Let me add mine as well.
    Now,there are many areas on the map that need a lot of work,but in this post I will focus on the area which is the most under-presented and awfully designed in my opinion and that's Hellas.First of all I would completely redesign the shape to properly fit the real geography of the place and especially Euboea.
    ...
    1)Region:Phillipoupolis
    Province:Makedonia
    Owner:Dynasteia Antigonidon (Antigonid dynasty or simply Macedon)

    2)Region:Pella,Capital,epic stone walls
    Province:Makedonia
    Owner:Dynasteia Antigonidon

    3)Region:Larisa
    Province:Makedonia
    Owner:Dynasteia Antigonidon

    4)Region:Ambrakia,epic stone walls
    Province:Makedonia
    Owner:Apeirotan (Epirus)

    5)Region:Delphoi
    Province:Sterea Hellas
    Owner:Aitoliki Sympoliteia (Aetolian league)

    6)Region:Thiba (Thebes),epic stone walls
    Province:Sterea Hellas
    Owner:Aitoliki Sympoliteia

    6a)The pass of Thermopylai.I would definitely include that on the map and it would be the only way from northern Hellas to the south,the rest of central Hellas would be protected from the north by huge mountains,as it was in real life too.The only way to avoid the pass would be to sail around it.

    7)Region:Eretria
    Province:Sterea Hellas
    Owner:Athinai (Athens)

    8)Region:Athinai,Capital,epic stone walls
    Province:Sterea Hellas
    Owner:Athinai

    9)Region:Korinthos,Capital,epic stone walls
    Province:Peloponnisos
    Owner:Dynasteia Antigonidon

    10)Region:Ilis
    Province:Peloponnisos
    Owner:Achaiki Sympoliteia (Achaean league)

    11)Region:Megalopolis,epic stone walls
    Province:Peloponnisos
    Owner:Achaiki Sympoliteia (Achaean league)

    12)Region:Sparti
    Province:Peloponnisos
    Owner:Lakedemon (Lacaedemon or simply Sparta)

    13)Region:Knossos
    Province:Nisia Aigaiou
    Owner:Kriti (Crete)

    14)Region:Rhodos,Capital,epic stone walls
    Province:Nisia Aigaiou
    Owner:Rhodos

    15)Region:Mytilini
    Province:Nisia Aigaiou
    Owner:Pergamos
    Quote Originally Posted by Dietre View Post
    ... Greece (Achaia) Nicopolis, Patrae, Corintus, Thessalonica, Perinthus, Byzantium. (Apollonia is a city in Africa above Cyrene) ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Errabundi View Post
    Me, personally, I'm missing Miletus, one of the most important cities of Western Anatolia and cradle of many towns around Mediterranean. ...
    Quote Originally Posted by jamreal18 View Post
    Improvement first to Syracuse and Jerusalem...Then add Corinth and Thebes City....
    Lots of interesting proposals here. Let's move counterclockwise.

    - Dardania. The Dardanians were one of the strongest tribes in the Balkans, a real pain in the ss for Macedon. It is absolutely incomprehensible that they are not a faction.n Their capital is Naissus. Another missing tribe in that area are the Paeonians.
    - Philippopolis is in Thrace. I think it should be the capital of a Thracian province.
    - Amphipolis is a valid request. An alternative might be Philippi, but I'm a bit opposed to both, because I think the most important town in the area is Thessalonike. So I'd have Amphipolis and Philippi as forts.
    - Thessalonike was founded around 315 BC, the city was still young in 273. By that year the capital of Macedon was Pella, but that city was in quick decline and a few decades later it was surpassed by Thessalonike which is still today the capital of Greek Macedonia. That's why I'd try to have both, Pella and Thessalonike in the map. Thessalonike may be the capital of the region Chalkidike.
    - Larissa in Thessaly is a must. It was already in Rome 1.
    - Thermopylae. This pass is really important and should be in the map. There must be an alternative (but much longer route) through Epirus though.
    - Corcyra and the Ionian islands. Although the island of Corcyra is quite small it is not impossible to have this city and port.
    - Nikopolis became the capital of Epirus vetus after the Roman conquest. In our timeframe Ambracia or Phoenice appear as the better choice.
    - Akarnania. This region was so small that I don't think it deserves a city. The capital Anaktorion might be represented as a fort.
    - Delphi. If Themon and Thebes are in the map, Delphi might be too much. It is however possible to put it in and then it would be the capital of the region Locris.
    - Thebes. Because Thebes was destroyed by Alexander the Great, many modders oppose this choice. In Hellenistic times there was some attempt at reconstruction, but with limited success. Some modders therefore propose Elateia as an alternative. I don't think this makes much sense. The historic capital of Boeotia was Thebes and so should it be in the game, only that Thebes might start as a small village and the player has the task to rebuild it and lead it again to ancient glory. When a settlement starts with 450 residents this is not easy at all.
    - Elis. I have some doubt that this town is significant enough. Achaea with capital Aegion is much more important. So I'd have Elis as a permanent fort.
    - Patras should be the port of Aegion/Achaea.
    - Megalopolis is the capital of Arcadia and should be in the map.
    - Eretria might be the port of Euboea. The capital of the island should be Chalcis, one of the three fetters of Hellas (along with Acrocorinth and Piraeus)
    - Mytilene on Lesbos is one of my favourites. I worked an entire day to get the shape of that island right.
    - Knossos is arguably better as port of Crete. As capital I prefer Gortyn. But these choices are open to discussion. There are also Cydonia and Hierapytna which I have as permanent forts.
    - Miletus is indeed important, but it was soon surpassed by Ephesus. It's a hard choice, but in the end I'd tend to have Ephesus as the capital of Ionia and Miletus as the port.
    - Halicarnassus is the capital of Caria. It was already in Rome 1 and a must. Besides the Mausoleum the town has an important temple of Athena, while in nearby Stratonikeia is the most important sanctuary of Hekate.
    - Argos. Nobody named this town, probably because you thought that it was impossible. But it is not and since Argos was really important, this is my contribution.

    I hope I forgot nothing and would love to hear your opinions.
    Last edited by Philadelphos; June 24, 2014 at 05:46 AM.
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  9. #29

    Default Re: Which additional city should be in improved map?

    Two screens with additional information on Halicarnassus:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



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  10. #30

    Default Re: Which additional city should be in improved map?

    Two screens on Thebes in Boeotia including the Cadmeia in ruins and the monument for Leonidas of Sparta:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



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  11. #31

    Default Re: Which additional city should be in improved map?

    About Argos and Argolis:

    The city of Argos had mighty walls, two citadels and two ports. In Hellenistic times it was governed for several decades by tyrants. The most important were Aristomachos and Aristippos. The tyranny in Argos ended when Aratos of Sicyon convinced Aristomachos the Younger to join the Achaean League.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Argos was also the site of the Nemean Games. The town of Nemea had been stripped of this event a century earlier by the Argives. During the war with Argos Aratos of Sicyon restored the stadium at Nemea and organized the games to be celebrated in their original site. This was done to damage the Argive tyrants and it may have contributed to the dismissal of their despotic regime.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    The most celebrated site in Argolis is the Asklepieion at Epidaurus, probably the most famous clinic of antiquity and still visited today by millions of tourists.

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  12. #32

    Default Re: Which additional city should be in improved map?

    Quote Originally Posted by ABH2 View Post
    ... Alesia, a bunch more tribes at least for Gaul. Massalia controls too much territory. There's nothing to represent Narbo Martius which would play a pretty important role through much of the game's time period...
    Quote Originally Posted by baptistus View Post
    Lugdunum and Lutetia (gaul)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dietre View Post
    between Massilia and Tarraco you can put Narbo
    between Massilia and Genua is Cemenellum
    Medhlan should be Mediolanum? with Verona between it and Patavium and Aqulleia to its east
    Some valid requests here.

    - Lutetia was the capital of the Parisii, a smaller tribe in the vicinity of the Senones. In Caesar's time, contrary to its depiction in Asterix, it was certainly not the first city of Gaul, but a well fortified town like many others. It became the capital of France only in Medieval times, and this is probably the reason why many modders/mappers oppose it to be included in RTW.
    Yet I believe there is no valid reason to do so. Our knowledge of early Gaul derives almost completely from Caesar and there Lutetia is mentioned alongside many other towns like Cenabum, Avaricum, Bibracte, Samarobriva, Durocortorum, Alesia, Gergovia and more. Like Avaricum, Gergovia and Alesia, Lutetia is the site of an important battle. We have absolutely no elements to make a special case of Lutetia saying that it didn't exist in 273, while the others did.
    Given the later importance of the city, I think that Gaul is not complete without Lutetia, just like Italy wouldn't be complete without Capua or Greece without Corinth. Lutetia should be in the map, because many players would like to have a chance to develop it and make it their capital of Gaul.
    - Lugdunum. The case of Lugdunum is slightly different, because we know that the city was founded by Munatius Plancus a year after Caesar's death. So we cannot say that it existed as early as the other towns mentioned in Caesar, but this doesn't exclude that there was maybe a village in the same site. In any case, Lugdunum quickly grew to become the Roman capital of Gaul and this should be reflected, as well as the fact that it is still one of the first cities of France.
    Moreover we must say that the map of Rome 2 in other areas has towns of a much later period. There are several towns of the Medieval era, such as Uburzis (Würzburg) and Mons Regius (Königsberg), the latter being a Prussian foundation from the 13th century AD! There are numerous other examples of similarly absurd choices which sometimes give the impression that the selection of cities was done at random.
    I can therefore see no reason why Lugdunum, a city that was important during the last part of our timeframe, must be excluded at all cost and would try to have it in the map like it was in RTW 1. I would only let it start as a village and give it no buildings at all, so that the player has the task to found a city and develop it.
    - Alesia is a similar case like Lutetia. It was the capital of a minor tribe, the Mandubii, but rose to fame due to Vercingetorix's last stand and Caesar's biggest victory. Since it is one of the two most famous battle sites of the Gallic War (the other one is Gergovia), it should possibly be in the map (and so should Gergovia). Moreover we know a lot of things about Alesia which can help to design this city in a more specific way. Most famous were, for example, the hot springs and thermal fountains dedicated to Moritasgus.
    More on Alesia:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    - Gergovia was the capital of the Arverni, the tribe of Vercingetorix, and the site of Caesar's biggest defeat. It is therefore absolutely incomprehensible how they could leave that out.
    - Narbo is a very old town in Gaul. It was first mentioned in the 5th century BC. It was the capital of the Volcae Arecomici and in 118 BC it was turned into a Roman colony, soon to become one of the Roman capitals of Gaul, especially of the Provincia Narbonnensis. It is therefore hard to understand why it was left out.
    - Cemenellum is probably not important enough to be a town, but it can be a port.
    - Medhlan is indeed Mediolanum. I believe these "reconstructed" Celtic names were introduced by modders of Europa Barbarorum or others and I think that the results are quite horrible. As far as I know, there is no evidence for this spelling and the same is true for most other horrors of the same kind.
    All written sources from antiquity, all history books and all school books have the town as Mediolanum (or sometimes Mediolanon), and there is no reason to change that, since it serves only to irritate players. RTW 1 had it right. In Rome 1 it was then quite easy to correct similar misspellings, but I don't know how that works in RTW 2.
    - Massilia controls indeed too much territory. The city's history is not well documented, but a few notions that we do have can be used to characterize the town and make it almost as unique as the Greek colonies in Magna Graecia. In particular there were two famous temples in Massilia which were dedicated to Artemis and Apollo (see below in upper buildings row).

    Last edited by Philadelphos; June 25, 2014 at 08:29 PM.
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  13. #33

    Default Re: Which additional city should be in improved map?

    I think that if you are talking from a gameplay perspective, a unique Barbarian city would be the most logical. I'm by no means a historian so I have no idea which cities were significant in that time period. Maybe a city for Gaul or something. Also I would like cities for one of the Iberian tribes, African Kingdoms and maybe one for the Steppe Tribes. Simply because they would probably look very different from an architecture standpoint compared to what we have now. Also they would be scattered across the map where the unique 5 cities we have now (with the exception of Byzantium) are all more or less directly on the mediterenean Sea. I always make it a secondary objective to capture all unique cities. (The only siege battles where I don't knock down the walls with ballista but actually use siege towers and ramms) I know a lot of people rather have important Greek cities in the game but I feel this would make the grand campaign a lot more interesting and would give some factions (Like Bactria or the Lusitani) some fun secondary objectives to play with.

    On another note, I feel that capturing a unique city should be more rewarding and should give you a small bonus to something like the ancient wonders do..

  14. #34

    Default Re: Which additional city should be in improved map?

    I agree with you that there should be as many unique cities as possible in the more civilized parts of the map. This requires a certain amount of research and I can understand that CA hasn't the competence or manpower to do that. But if this is so, it should be possible for modders to add more unique features for cities, as it was in Rome 1.

    I like your idea to see the unique cities as a kind of reward for the successful player and I agree that there should be something more to underline that aspect. For this reason in Rome Total History I have introduced the feature of "capturable ancillaries". When you conquer an important city, your general "captures" these historic persons, receiving certain benefits (but sometimes also potentially negative effects).
    Last edited by Philadelphos; June 26, 2014 at 07:03 AM.
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  15. #35

    Default Re: Which additional city should be in improved map?

    Quote Originally Posted by ABH2 View Post
    ... Capua, Tarentum...
    Quote Originally Posted by RexImperator View Post
    ... Akragas and Messana to Sicily, which should be a separate province from Magna Graecia. Possibly Panormus, Eryx and/or Segesta as well. Magna Graecia should be a purely coastal province containing Rhegion, Croton, Thurii and Tarentum. With a province containing the Oscan regions of Samnium, Lucania and Bruttium being in land. Campania should be seperate from Latium, containing Capua and Poseidonia as well as Neapolis.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dietre View Post
    ... Velathri I believe would be Florentia or spoletum, south of Roma is CAPUA, south of Brundisium is Tarentum...
    Quote Originally Posted by Fedual View Post
    You guys have great ideas going, though i doubt they will be realised by SEGA, i would for starters just like to see Syracuse as the capital of Magna Graecia with walls instead of Brundisium, also a custom battle map for Syracuse would be much apreciated.
    Quote Originally Posted by Errabundi View Post
    Me, personally, I'm missing Miletus, one of the most important cities of Western Anatolia and cradle of many towns around Mediterranean. Number two is of course Capua, which is a shame that doesn't exist in game...
    Quote Originally Posted by jamreal18 View Post
    Improvement first to Syracuse and Jerusalem...
    I agree that there should be at least two different provinces: Magna Graecia AND Sicily.

    Syracuse, which was for several centuries the biggest fortress of the world, should be a provincial capital and it definitely deserves to be a unique city with huge walls. Other cities in Sicily should be Lilybaeum, Panormus, Akragas and Messana.

    The most important challenge to the Roman power in Magna Graecia was Tarentum, in Southern Italy it was Capua. It's incomprehensible how they could ignore these cities which had a fundamental role in Hannibal's war and on several other occasions. When I play Carthage I want to have the possibility to follow Hannibal's footsteps and I can't do that without a chance to conquer Capua and Tarentum.
    So Capua or Tarentum should be the capital of Southern Italy/Magna Graecia, both with decent city walls, while other cities could be Rhegium, Croton, Brundisium, Bovianum, Consentia, and Beneventum.

    Here is some more on Capua and Tarentum.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Last edited by Philadelphos; June 28, 2014 at 07:03 AM.
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  16. #36

    Default Re: Which additional city should be in improved map?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dietre View Post
    for the love of god why is Jerusalem a minor crap town with no walls etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Je...lo_primero.jpg (Reconstruction of what Jerusalem looked like during the 1st century CE, based on archaeological findings)
    I believe it should be the capital city of that region tho, not Petra or whatever its called.
    Quote Originally Posted by kamikazee786 View Post
    improvements to carthage and new city maps altogether for Syracuse and Jerusalem !!!
    Quote Originally Posted by jamreal18 View Post
    Improvement first to Syracuse and Jerusalem...
    Jerusalem, like many other cities, deserves better treatment. Here is some suggestion:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


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  17. #37
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    Default Re: Which additional city should be in improved map?

    Quote Originally Posted by Philadelphos View Post
    Jerusalem, like many other cities, deserves better treatment. Here is some suggestion:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Seeing that Rome2 has extremely limited building slots could you give some practical details\advice how building screenshots from Rome1 will help? Your Rome1 screenshot of Tarentum has already nearly double the building slots possible in Rome2 - so how is that going to enable better 'treatment'?










  18. #38
    Hetairos's Avatar Roma Surrectum II
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    Default Re: Which additional city should be in improved map?

    No better treatment at all, until CA unlocks the UI limitations for buildings, traits and descriptions by adding a scroll down function or even better redo the entire UI to suit PC needs (and not tablet or console ones). If we get rid of the limitations only than will we be able to add more depth to the game.

  19. #39

    Default Re: Which additional city should be in improved map?

    Quote Originally Posted by alecwermuth View Post
    No better treatment at all, until CA unlocks the UI limitations for buildings, traits and descriptions by adding a scroll down function or even better redo the entire UI to suit PC needs (and not tablet or console ones). If we get rid of the limitations only than will we be able to add more depth to the game.
    You are right. And I think nobody understands why RTW II falls so much behind what was possible ten years ago.
    A statement from the company would be nice, at least some kind of time table saying what will when be possible. At present they are only losing momentum.
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  20. #40

    Default Re: Which additional city should be in improved map?

    I hope we can see grand campaign in scale of Hannibal at the gates . ( either in mods or a DLC )

    In this case the game will be like real world , Just look at the number of cities in Italy :


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