Which additional city should be in improved map?

[Philadelphos]

Please name the cities or regions you would like to see in an improved map for Rome 2.

You can try to motivate your choice by saying why the city is important. You can also add information about specific buildings or other features that should be represented in your city.

I start with one of the most obvious choices:

BYZANTIUM (region Propontis)

The following screen shows why Byzantium is a must.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

By 280 BC Byzantium had an important port controlling the Bosporus passage, mighty city walls and at least five famous temples dedicated to Aphrodite, Poseidon, Artemis, Apollon, and Demeter (left to right in the picture). Other gods worshipped were Zeus and Hekate who "saved" the city during a siege. Hekate (whose shrine is below Poseidon's) also provided the city's symbol (crescent and star) which can still be seen today in the Turkish flag.

The political history of the city is well known. The Byzantines were commercial partners of Athens and Egypt, allies of Pergamon and Rhodes (except for a short period when they went to war over a dispute on duty fees), and the Roman Republic. They resisted the passage of the Galatians, attacks by the Thracians and sieges by Macedon. While neighboring places like Bithynia and Pergamon were transformed into monarchies, the Byzantines maintained their Repubblican constitution until the Romans annexed them during the reign of emperor Vespasian (69-79 AD).

[jtfjtfjtf]

Corinth! I liked Greece in EB. And Corinth was one of the reasons.

[Philadelphos]

Yes, Greece is not complete without Corinth. The fortress of Acrocorinth was one of the fetters of Hellas. The city was a commercial superpower second only to Rhodes. There were famous temples and academies. The Isthmian Games were almost as important as the Olympic Games.

Between 275 and 146 BC the city changed hands at least five times. First it was Macedonian, then independent under Alexander of Corinth and his widow Nikaia, then Macedonian again, then Achaean, then Macedonian again, then Achaean for half a century, and finally it was annexed by the Romans who largely destroyed it, but later rebuilt it partially.

The following screen gives some additional information on why it is a shame to exclude Corinth from the map.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[RexImperator]

Thermon and Aigion

[ABH2]

Thermon (no Aetolian League with all the factions represented?), Corinth, Capua, Tarentum, Saguntum, Emporion, Messana, Byzantium, Halicarnassus, some representation of the Greek islands besides Crete, Alesia, a bunch more tribes at least for Gaul. Massalia controls too much territory. There's nothing to represent Narbo Martius which would play a pretty important role through much of the game's time period. Corinth may suffice for the Peloponnese, but there were some other major cities related to the Achaean League. Amphipolis would fit in nicely.

The reason so much was left off? So CA could have massive cities that expand on the campaign map. Same reason building slots are locked.

[Philadelphos]

The towns of Thermon and Aegion were both small, but they were the assembly places of the Aetolians and the Achaeans, two powerful city leagues that became fundamental for Greek politics in the 3rd and first half of the 2nd century BC. The following screens give some information on the both of them.

AETOLIAN LEAGUE (Thermon and Delphi)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

ACHAEAN LEAGUE (Aegion)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[ABH2]

Yea, Thermon was basically just a meeting spot, but I don't know what else would represent the Aetolian League. They were more important diplomatically than Athens in the game's time period.

[RexImperator]

some representation of the Greek islands besides Crete,

The reason so much was left off? So CA could have massive cities that expand on the campaign map. Same reason building slots are locked.

Good point about the Greek islands, there should be an Aegean island province composed of Samos, Chios, Lesbos and Delos and one in the Ionian containing Corcyra, Zacynthus and Cephallenia. Euboea should also be an island region in the Greece province. Peloponesse should be a seperate province with at lest 3 regions. I'd like to see Chalcidice as a region of Macedon. Dardania as a region for Illyria, Akarnania in N-West Greece. Add Thebes/Boetia region to Greece, maybe add Delphi as well.

Akragas and Messana to Sicily, which should be a separate province from Magna Graecia. Possibly Panormus, Eryx and/or Segesta as well. Magna Graecia should be a purely coastal province containing Rhegion, Croton, Thurii and Tarentum. With a province containing the Oscan regions of Samnium, Lucania and Bruttium being in land. Campania should be seperate from Latium, containing Capua and Poseidonia as well as Neapolis.




I'd also cut up Asia Minor and the further East up a lot more as well but I can't be bothered to find a decent map at the moment.


Shame that the tumor cities don't allow this to be possible.

[Philadelphos]

Yea, Thermon was basically just a meeting spot, but I don't know what else would represent the Aetolian League. They were more important diplomatically than Athens in the game's time period.

You are right, and that's why Thermon was already in Rome 1. Your list of cities nails a lot of weak spots and I intend to discuss them one by one if I can.

[ABH2]

I can't explain how much I loathe the city design in this game. I hated it at the start (the massive size, and expansion graphics, everything locked in the city itself), but after spending the last two months trying to mod it...

[perifanosEllinas]

Some great ideas here guys.Let me add mine as well.

If I had the chance to rework or simply mod the campaign map I would definitely resize the cities to be way way smaller than they are now and I would delete their expanding animations.After this the friendly armies would have no problem walking around cities (the enemies would still be blocked by the city's area of control and would have to engage).The problem of way oversized islands to have enough space for the way oversized cities is also solved this way.

Another huge problem that I would fix is the rule that only capitals can have walls.I would enable much more cities to have walls.

I would also include some new factions and change the starting positions of others to represent more accurately the conditions of the starting date.

Now,there are many areas on the map that need a lot of work,but in this post I will focus on the area which is the most under-presented and awfully designed in my opinion and that's Hellas.First of all I would completely redesign the shape to properly fit the real geography of the place and especially Euboea.Here is a picture of what I would do:



Each colour represents one province:

light blue:Makedonia (Macedon)

yellow:Sterea Hellas (Central Hellas)

brown: Peloponnisos (Peloponnese)

white:Nisia Aigaiou (Aegean islands)

And now let me give more details on each region:

1)Region:Phillipoupolis
Province:Makedonia
Owner:Dynasteia Antigonidon (Antigonid dynasty or simply Macedon)

2)Region:Pella,Capital,epic stone walls
Province:Makedonia
Owner:Dynasteia Antigonidon

3)Region:Larisa
Province:Makedonia
Owner:Dynasteia Antigonidon

4)Region:Ambrakia,epic stone walls
Province:Makedonia
Owner:Apeirotan (Epirus)

5)Region:Delphoi
Province:Sterea Hellas
Owner:Aitoliki Sympoliteia (Aetolian league)

6)Region:Thiba (Thebes),epic stone walls
Province:Sterea Hellas
Owner:Aitoliki Sympoliteia

6a)The pass of Thermopylai.I would definitely include that on the map and it would be the only way from northern Hellas to the south,the rest of central Hellas would be protected from the north by huge mountains,as it was in real life too.The only way to avoid the pass would be to sail around it.

7)Region:Eretria
Province:Sterea Hellas
Owner:Athinai (Athens)

8)Region:Athinai,Capital,epic stone walls
Province:Sterea Hellas
Owner:Athinai

9)Region:Korinthos,Capital,epic stone walls
Province:Peloponnisos
Owner:Dynasteia Antigonidon

10)Region:Ilis
Province:Peloponnisos
Owner:Achaiki Sympoliteia (Achaean league)

11)Region:Megalopolis,epic stone walls
Province:Peloponnisos
Owner:Achaiki Sympoliteia (Achaean league)

12)Region:Sparti
Province:Peloponnisos
Owner:Lakedemon (Lacaedemon or simply Sparta)

13)Region:Knossos
Province:Nisia Aigaiou
Owner:Kriti (Crete)

14)Region:Rhodos,Capital,epic stone walls
Province:Nisia Aigaiou
Owner:Rhodos

15)Region:Mytilini
Province:Nisia Aigaiou
Owner:Pergamos

That's it.I hope my presentation is not confusing.

[Philadelphos]

Some good ideas here, but you should give the Egyptians a foothold in the Aegean.

Here is my proposal:

NAXOS (Cyclades / Nesiote League)

In Hellenistic times the islands of the Aegean formed a confederation called the Nesiote League. For several decades they were a protectorate of Ptolemaic Egypt. In this period they were the essential stepping stone for Ptolemaic interference in Hellenic affairs. The Egyptian influence reached as far as Ephesus, Samos, Lesbos and the Hellespontus. Several cities on the Hellespontus remained Ptolemaic domains until the times of Philip V of Macedon.
Some islands of the Cyclades (Naxos, Delos, Kos) were also important cultural centers and commercial or financial hubs. Capital of the Cyclades should be Naxos, the port may be in Paros, while other towns (Andros, Samos, Chios) can be represented as permanent forts. Mytilene/Lesbos and Chalcis/Euboea are cities/regions of their own.

More information in the following screens:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[baptistus]

Lugdunum and Lutetia (gaul)

[Philadelphos]

Getting the Egyptians involved in the Aegean is not only historically accurate, but it can also be great fun. In my test runs, playing Macedon, they often use their money to form a large anti-Macedonian coalition, exactly like in real history.

I know that many players hate the Egyptians, because they are a pain in the , and I'm sure that when they have to meet them in Naxos or Mytilene they will hate them even more!

Here is one more screenshot from the Cyclades:

[Dietre]

for the love of god why is Jerusalem a minor crap town with no walls etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Je...lo_primero.jpg (Reconstruction of what Jerusalem looked like during the 1st century CE, based on archaeological findings)
I believe it should be the capital city of that region tho, not Petra or whatever its called.

between Massilia and Tarraco you can put Narbo
south of tarraco is valentia (which may be ARSE in vanilla), Ibossim should be Palma, Carthago Nova is Qart Hadasht??

IoL can be cartena, saldea, hippo Regius or can add those in.

between Massilia and Genua is Cemenellum

Medhlan should be Mediolanum? with Verona between it and Patavium and Aqulleia to its east

Velathri I believe would be Florentia or spoletum, south of Roma is CAPUA, south of Brundisium is Tarentum

Greece (Achaia) Nicopolis, Patrae, Corintus, Thessalonica, Perinthus, Byzantium. (Apollonia is a city in Africa above Cyrene)

so ya, that's enough for only 1/4 of the map LOL

[perifanosEllinas]

Yeah Philadelphos,giving a foothold to the Hellenistic Ptolemaic kingdom in the Aegean is also an interesting idea and supported by history in 272 BC.In my map I could give the region "Mytilini" to them.That would complicate things even more in the area with all the kingdoms,city-states and leagues involved.

And I can tell you love Ptolemies

[Philadelphos]

I must say that I can find a lot of good common sense in all these proposals and I wonder why the CA mapping team wasn't able to show at least half of that virtue.
It will take some time to address all the requests. I think I will first finish Greece and then move on to other areas.

[Lionheart11]

Are those forts on the battlemap?, lots of forts? forgive me but its been 8+ years since i played Rome 1.

[Fedual]

You guys have great ideas going, though i doubt they will be realised by SEGA, i would for starters just like to see Syracuse as the capital of Magna Graecia with walls instead of Brundisium, also a custom battle map for Syracuse would be much apreciated.

[Philadelphos]

Are those forts on the battlemap?, lots of forts? forgive me but its been 8+ years since i played Rome 1.

Yes, there are lots of forts in Greece (from north to south: Philippi, Amphipolis, Casandreia, Phoenice, Dodona, Elateia, Naupactus, Elis, Mantineia, Tegea, Messene, Andros, Samos, Kydonia, Hierapytna) and many of them have been made permanent. There are more forts in Asia Minor (Abydos, Nicaea, Prusias, Doryleion, Apamea, Tralleis and more) There are also some "minor settlements" which have substituted the former watchtowers. Having a close look you can distinguish them in Delphi and Chios.