Preview: Daco-Thracians

[il Pitta]

THRACIAN ROSTER
(Basileion Odryson, Triballoi)


Thrakioi Toxotai
Thrakioi Sphendonetai
Thrakioi Peltastai
Thracian Levies
Thrakioi Machairophoroi
Thrakioi Rhomphaiophoroi
Thracian skirmish cavalry
Thracian Noble Horsemen
Celto-Thracian Warriors
Peltastai Agrianoi
Getai Hippotoxotai
Getai Noble Riders

The Thracians were a huge group of Indoeuropean people that lived in the oriental part of the Balkans.
They are normally divided in two distinct branches: “proper” Thracians and Geto-Dacians, that appeared to be a northern branch of the thracian family.
Even if influenced in different regions by other cultures, like the Celts, the Greeks and the Scythians, without any doubts the roots of Thracian culture are quite authentic.
The Thracian armies were quite characterized by the huge implement of skirmish troops… virtually, almost all the Thracian warriors were, save some small distinctions, skirmishers and fond of hit-and-run tactics.



Thrakioi Toxotai

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Thrakioi Sphendonetai

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Thrakioi Peltastai

The Peltasts were probably the most famous Thracian type of warriors. Antithetic in their approach to the battlefield to the Greeks, they were famed skirmishers.

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Thracian Levies


Xenophon, in the Anabasis, spoke about the use of some Thracian warriors to fight with wooden clubs
“as soon as they had reached the doors of any particular house, the attack began, some hurling in their spears, others attacking with their clubs, which they carried, it was said, for the purpose of knocking off the lance points from the shaft.” Senofonte, anabasis, VII , IV
As also attested in the Alexandrovo frescoes.

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Thrakioi Machairophoroi

Thracians “Machairophoroi” (Swordsmen) are rerely quoted in the Greek accounts.
As we can see from archaeological findings, the sword wasn’t so common among thracians, that favored daggers or the Rhomphaia (actually a re-utilization of scythe blade concept).
Even if Thracian warfare relied heavily on cavalry and hit-and-run tactics, the machairophoroi were able of a discipline standing, when needed:
“Thracians defended themselves skillfully against the Theban cavalry […] closing their ranks in battle order as typical of their country” (Thucydides, Peloponnesian War, 30)

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Thrakioi Rhomphaiophoroi

The Rhomphaia was a characteristic two handed weapon used by Thracians and Bastarnae, and probably related to the Dacian Falx (even if with a straighter blade).
Roman writers linked it strictly with the Thracians, as Gellius wrotes in the Noctes Atticae “Rumpia genus teli est Thraecae nationis” (10, 25, 4).
Even if capable of inflicting destructing blows, the Rhomphaia was a very cumbersome weapon, as Livy reports describing the Thracians fighting aside the Macedonians against the Romans in the woodlands along the river Erigonius: “the Rhomphaiae of the Thracians, being very long, hindered them in the thick of the wood” (Liviy, Ab urbe Condita, XXXI, 39, 11)

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Thracian Skirmish Cavalry

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Peltastai Agrianoi

The Agrianes were actually a composite people, in part Paeonian, in part Illyrian and in part Thracians, and were famed as mercenaries.

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Celto-Thracian Warriors



Due to the infiltration of the Pannonian Celts in thracian territories, Celtic panoply was adopted in diverse Thracian context (notably, but not only, the Triballoi).
However, due to the highly expensive celtic panoply (sword, metal scabbard, chain-belt) it had had been something used mainly by elites.

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Thracian Noble Riders

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Getai Hippotoxotai



The Getai were a Thracian people strongly related to the Dacian group and strongly influenced by steppe cultures like Scythians.
As reported by Thucydides, Getai were, as Scythians, used to deploy horse archers in combat.

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Getai Noble Riders

Deeply influenced by steppe cultures, in the Getai findings we can identify the figures of heavy armoured horsemen, without doubt coming from the upper class.

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[il Pitta]

BITHINIAN ROSTER
(Bithynia)

"The place which goes by the name of Calpe Haven is in Asiatic Thrace, the name given to aregion extending from the mouth of the Euxine all the way to Heraclea, which lies on the right hand as you sail into the Euxine. It is a long day's voyage for a war-ship, using her three banksof oars, from Byzantium to Heraclea, and between these two there is not a single Hellenic or friendly city, but only these Bithynian Thracians, who have a bad reputation for the savagerywith which they treat any Greeks cast ashore by shipwreck or otherwise thrown into their power"



Xenophon, Anabasis, 6.4.1-2





Toxotai
Sphendonetai
Akontistai
Bithiniaikoi Promachoi
Thyreophoroi Bithynoi
Machairophoroi Bithynoi
Hoplitai Bithynoi
Bithynoi Hippeis


The region of Bythinia was invaded in ancient times by the Thracian tribes of the Thyni and Bithyni.
Incorporated for a long time inside the Lydian kingdom, becoming again independent, Bithynia was strongly influenced by the Hellenistic world.
Prizing strongly its independece, Bythinia was capable of resisting even to the Macedonians.



Toxotai

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Sphendonetai

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Akontistai

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Bithiniaikoi Promachoi

Promachoi was a term used to define the first lines of light infantry corps in the Hellenistic world.
Expecially in Bythinia these corps were bringed to excellency, being prominent elements of Bythinian society fighting inside them, as attested in the Stele of Menas:

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Thyreophoroi Bithynoi

As for the Promachoi, a huge part of the the Bythinian soldiers were equipped with the thyreos, greatly because of Galatian influence in Asia Minor

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Hoplitai Bithynoi

If the thyreophoroi had became a standard soldier type in the Bythinian army, is also attested the presence of more old-fashion hoplites, due to the hellenic influence that nevertheless was strong in Asia Minor.

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Machairophoroi Bithynoi

The influence of the neighboring Galatians take the form not only of the adoption of the Thyreos, but even with a wide adoption of La Téne swords (cfr. M. Jurca, The Bythinian Army in the Hellenistic Period)

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Bithynoi Hippeis

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[Caracala]

Surely there is more to the Daco part. Are the Daci and Biephi getting their own roster

[il Pitta]

GETO-DACIAN ROSTER
(Daoi, Getai)




Early Komatai Levies
Early Komatai Skirmishers
Early Komatai Spearmen
Early Komatai Archers
Early Komatai Drepanophoroi
Early Tarabostes Warriors
Early Tarabostes Riders
Getai Hippotoxotai
Getai Noble Riders


Burebista Reform

Komatai Levies
Komatai Skirmishers
Komatai Spearmen
Komatai Archers
Komatai Drepanophoroi
Tarabostes Warriors
Tarabostes Riders
Costoboki Spearmen
Costoboki Noble Riders

Decebalus reform

Tarabostes Spearmen
Tarabostes Spearmen Raider (naval unit)
Dacian Scorpio
Dacian Bastion Ballista
Bastjanthai Rhomphaiophoroi
Raokhshna Kontophoroi
Raokshna Hippotoxotai

ROOSTER IN DETAIL

The Komatai (long-hairs) were the lower class of Geto-Dacian society. Most of them were farmers or herders, absolutely not professional fighters.
They were called to arms in time of great need, but never formed a stabile army.


Early Komatai Levies

The axe was a common weapon for lower class warriors, often an everyday tool reverted to weapon in case of need.

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Early Komatai Skirmishers

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Early Komatai Spearmen

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Early Komatai Archers

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Early Komatai Drepanophoroi

The two handed dacian falx was a weapon similar and related to the thracian Rhomphaia, even if more curved in shape.
Some historians believed that some of the modifications that occurred in the roman legionaries' panoply were subsequent to confront this kind of disrupting weapon

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The Tarabostes were the upper class of Dacian society, actually the rich merchants, the nobles and the aristocracy.
Classical accounts defined them as “Pileati”, because of their distinctive cap, the pileus, that defined their status and distinguished them from the commoner Komatai, that were bareheaded.

Early Tarabostes Warriors

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Early Tarabostes Riders

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The Getai were a Thracian people strongly related to the Dacian group and strongly influenced by steppe cultures like Scythians.
As reported by Thucydides, Getai were, as Scythians, used to deploy horse archers in combat.

Getai Hippotoxotai

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Getai Noble Riders

Deeply influenced by steppe cultures, in the Getai findings we can identify the figures of heavy armoured horsemen, without doubt coming from the upper class.

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Burebista Reform
King Burebista actually succeeded to unify all Dacian and Getic tribes in a kingdom, especially with the help of Deceneus, a priest that taught to the Dacians a new code of laws, astronomy and also established a recorded calendar.
He expanded greatly the borders of Dacian territories, chasing or subduing the Pannonian Celts that were harassing Dacia.
At this time, Dacian panoply undergo to the some of the same changes that occurred in Celtic La Téne context: the shields lose the central wooden spina in favor of round metal boss, and some longer sword were introduced.

Komatai Levies

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Komatai Skirmishers

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Komatai Spearmen

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Komatai Archers

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Komatai Drepanophoroi

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Tarabostes Warriors

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Tarabostes Riders

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The Costoboci, that were ascribed by Strabo and Ptolemy as part of the multiethnic Bastarnae federation, are identified by archaeologists either with the Lipiţa Culture or the Poiana-Răcătău-Tinosul Culture, and appeared to have deep celtic influence in their material culture, while their ethnic origin is probably mixed Dacian and Germanic.



Costoboki Spearmen

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Costoboki Noble Riders

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Decebalus reform
After the dissolution of the kingdom of Burebista, Dacians became again divided, until the family of Decebalus stood up to reform the kingdom.
Decebalus trained better soldiers and start to bring inside the Dacian koiné different tribal entities like the the Celto-Germanic Bastarnae and the Scythian Roxolani.


Tarabostes Spearmen



Dacian Scorpio

At the end of the Dacian Wars, the defeated Decebalus was forced to "surrender all his war engines" to the Romans, a sign that demonstrates the Dacians at some point did possessed machines of war, that probably were both a product of local craftmanship and something plundered from the Romans.

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Bastjanthai Rhomphaiophoroi

On the Adamklisi metope there are some warriors fighting the Romans with huge falx-like weapons, that have been identified as Bastarnae, expecially due to the suebian knot on their hairs

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The Roxolani, both as heavy cavalry and heavy horse archers are attested on Trajan's Column as fighting alongside the Dacians.
It is not totally clear if they were mercenaries, allied or even federate troops.




Raokhshna Kontophoroi

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Raokshna Hippotoxotai

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[alex33]

Are those really the Rhomphaiophoroi models? they kinda look like your skirmishers xD

[Stath's]

Beautiful work!!

[Benito]

Great work

[AnthoniusII]

Great result!
I minor correction:
Change the word Thrakioi with either Thrakai or Thrakae (in greek the word and description is Θρακαι).

[Visarion]

very good documentation even if some of the units could be improved... I mean the levy units of the Thracians are very similar... a little bit of diversity would be welcomed... keep up the good work!

[Mithridates II the Great]

Nice work .

Just a question , I saw reforms in your post . Are they in the game ?

If yes , How are they going to happen ?

[crawe1]

Great work!

[Iutland]

Nice work .

Just a question , I saw reforms in your post . Are they in the game ?

If yes , How are they going to happen ?

Yes they are implemented in CAC v0.7 and are tied to a specific turn and also has certain requirements for ownership of specific regions. I will post more information on all Reforms/Events once we get closer to release date

[z3n]

Will the thracians get any pikemen? As I understand it there was a successor state in thrace...so

[il Pitta]

Don't have any knowledge of a Successors state in Thrace.
Acrtually there was a Thracian warlord that claimed to be the son of the last Macedonian king, Andriskos, that in 149 seized Macedonia from the Romans with a Thracian army and founded a brief Macedonian kingdom, but you can find it in the Makedonia rooster ;-)

[z3n]

http://www.livius.org/di-dn/diadochi/war10.html

[il Pitta]

Ah, ok, Lysimachus ;-)

The kingdom of Lysimachus was quite short, actually ended due to the internal struggles of the Diadochi, and didn't influeced strongly the Thracian culture.

In 281 Lysimachus was killed in battle by Seleucus, that in fact was allied with the Odrysian kingdom Thracians of Seutes III, that didn't like to be under Lisimachus power.

After that, even if Thrace was nominally under the Ptolemies of Egypt, that were by marriage related to Lisimachus, the area wasn't under a direct macedonian control, and was invaded in 273 by the Pannonian Celts, -some of them founded in place the Tylis kingdom.

We haven't any clear news about Thrace after the Celtic invasion, even if a Thracian king, probably Odrysian, named Pleuratos, is recorded as the one that finally succeded in destroying the kingdom of Tylis.

Thrace remained a world in contact but external to the Hellenostoc world, a place from which Makedonia, the Seleucids and the Ptolemies raised mercenaries and klerouchoi, but by no means a Successors kigdom.

Furthermore, Macedonians, from Alexander onward, praised Thracians for being excellent skirmishers, slingers, pletastai and romphaiophoroi, not as line troops.
Actually with their war style they brought to the Macedonian armies that flexibility they lack.
In the Thracian context, where war was based on skirmish, ambush and raids, mobility was fundamental.
Greek and hellenistic style panoplies, in a specular way of some Northern Italic contexts, were adopted by single nobles as a fashion, but were never widespread under a functional profile.

So... at the end, just to say: no Thracian Pezeteri.

[z3n]

Indeed, thats the very man I was talking about and yes I too have read extensively on this topic. Well, I can understand your intention to not classify it as a successor state due to the amount of time. However I don't think you should be saying that there wasn't a successor state there... In general if you compare the sumerian or egyptian empires to the rest of the world they're all short times. His power base seemed to be in thrace, rather than any other part considering he had dominion of it ever since 323 bc. In fact even his capital was there.

Anyway, thrace was noted for it's very long spears which very plausibly was the place Phillip got his idea for a sarissa from. The fact that they were used to using long spears should make them a viable pike wielding faction. Not to mention what you already did but it would be nice to give balance to the roster due to the facts of what you say about the klerouchoi. klerouchoi and pezhetairoi are two different things from what I've read, pezhetairoi were probably heavier armed and better trained. So pezhetairoi not being a part of their roster I can understand but it would be nice to have klerouchoi or at least a levy pike unit. With credibility too due to their use of phalanx mercanaries in the past. They obviously recognized the need for line troops for certain battles. Honestly as it stands now that roster just looks painful since it's true the Rhomphaiophoroi are probably going to be the main line troops who hardly look different from peltasts... Plus no flankers with two handed rhomphaiophoroi/falx troops or any elites that you could potentially use. I mean the lack of armour was probably more due to the lack of money, since thracian nobles wore armour and it's possible that southern thracians were open to the idea of armour too.

Plus think about it, as the thracian empire expanded (it didnt historically), surely it would be feasible to make a conjecture that their troops would have become better armoured due to the influx of wealth and thus ability to afford better armour? It's hard to say for certain about anything because all of our information is based on what others wrote about them ,unfortunately since they're so interesting. Theres already evidence that the macedonians and romans had successfully used them with armour and as front line & heavy troops legionaires,pezhetairoi and heavy cavalry, so I'm not sure what your reasoning for limiting them is.. considering their army could have been the largest in the world with 100k-200k , so while they were known as lightly armed, surely there must have been a fair amount somewhere within that were armoured? Compared to that size, they weren't very many if compared to the 200k man scale but I am willing to bet it's at least 5k+ heavily armoured rich men.

As it stands now they won't be a very fun faction to play and I like them on the same level as seleucids/rome/macedon, in short they don't seem to be given very much attention or balance. Just my opinion, take it as you will and don't take me wrong, I approve of most the roster, it just feels very lacking

[Zanthou]

I can't comment on the need to give thracians some pikes since I hardly have the knowledge to argue in favour or against it. But in terms of gameplay you shouldn't really judge how this factions will play due the lack of apparent armour overall in their roster, having played previous versions of CAC and quite a few custom battles as the Lusitani. I can assure you that I never felt low armoured units underperforming, you just have to adapt to the strengths of your troops. Like as soon as I saw this preview I had the urge to start a save as the Getai specifically due to how well their roster seems to be done! It is super versatile, granted you don't have amazing line infantry but you have a very flexible army with amazing skirmish and shock potential! Plus the potential to unleash cataphracts against the unwashed masses of germans and gauls is just too good to pass over!

[il Pitta]

About the fact that the Thracians were known for their long spears... frankly I don't know anything about it... I remeber they were known for being cunning skirmishers.
The development of the Macedonian phalanx find its roots among Iphikrates athenian "peltasts", as far as I know, that were indeed a reformed kind of hoplites. with very long spears.

I've developed all the Thracian roster strongly counting on the skirmish tradition of that people. Almost all the Thracian troops have ranged weapons (yes, even the Rhomphaiophoroi), and almost all them have the skirmish ability.
They also have a skirmish "elite" (even if linked to AOR), that are the Agrianes, and a good heavy cavalry as noble unit.
Furthermore, I suggest you to play different combination, and to use (even if again AOR) the Getai units (expecially hippotoxotai) to enhance the army.

The overall idea is to have an army that swarms around the enemy, covers it with javelins and projectiles, and attacks only when the opponent is tired and broken... I recall the frustration of a Spartan commander (don't remember the name now), that after a year of unproductive war in Thrace had an outburst "Is impossible to make war against this savages! They can't do war properly!" because of all the ambushes, skirmish, ecc.

P.S.
actually "Pezoi/Pezethairoi" is the name of the line fighter of the Macedonian phalanx. The name was commonly used with Philip and Alexander, and remained in the contract form "Pezoi" within the Ptolemies
"Klerouchoi" menas simply "settlers", and is more a juridical condition than a military corp definition, used to define the Macedonian/Greek (and after a while even Thracian and Celt) middle class citizens in some Successors states (notably Egypt)

[skysyk]

Joining the conversation, i remember a few historians that debated the origin of the sarissa stating that the organisation of the makedonian-phalanx was inspired by philip II's time in Theben, while the Lenght of the Sarissa was influenced by his Northern campaigns. The Debate was if the long spears where more found in the Getai/Thrako-Getai Area, or against some Illyrian Tribes. As soon as i am home i am going to search for the Sources....