View Poll Results: With the RGM 7.4 finally out what do you think about CAI and Overall game play

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  • Perfect, keep it like this,evertyhing sync corretly

    11 68.75%
  • Good, but still CAI need to reduced its term of hostility, overall everything is quite balance

    4 25.00%
  • Average,its not i dont like the new update but i just miss the old passive CAI

    0 0%
  • Bad,please revert it into original state,especialy now AI finally bring siege eguipment like rome 2

    1 6.25%
  • Very bad,every tweak you do just make the gameplay turn into harder to complete,almost imposible, i just want to win that all

    0 0%
  • Unplayable, your mod Sir is one hell of mess, the ui,CAI,evertyhing is wrong, i Hate This Mod, even rubik's cube is better then playing your mod

    0 0%
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Thread: |RGM| Real Garrison Mod 7.7 is Out !!!

  1. #101
    Junaidi83 de Bodemloze's Avatar Dont Mess With Me
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    Default Re: |RGM| Real Garrison Mod 7.4 (Beta)

    I have indeed removed the user.script
    Well the screenshot is right. Sir i mean edit your userscript not remove it there is misunderstanding here. Try mine maybe its solve the problem .Click me
    Good luck and good day
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  2. #102
    McCarronXLD's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: |RGM| Real Garrison Mod 7.4 (Beta)

    That worked! Thank you.
    "You hurt me long ago; my wounds bled for years. Now you are back, but I am not the same."

  3. #103
    McCarronXLD's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: |RGM| Real Garrison Mod 7.4 (Beta)

    Love it so far! Though I am not sure how I feel about Korea yet. I think the unit cap system is fantastic though! Just wish the AI used more Ashigaru as it was historically.
    Last edited by McCarronXLD; September 30, 2014 at 06:46 PM.
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  4. #104
    Junaidi83 de Bodemloze's Avatar Dont Mess With Me
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    Default Re: |RGM| Real Garrison Mod 7.4 (Beta)

    Love it so far! Though I am not sure how I feel about Korea yet. I think the unit cap system is fantastic though! Just wish the AI used more Ashigaru as it was historically.
    And that was only beta version, since the latest patch i working right now, is far more advanced then beta version you use, for example, battle time,reworked dynamic caps for monk and ninja (now ai will able to use it),revamp upkeep (actualy now you can go bankrupt if things goes south).And many more
    Modding is like accursed wine, you try a sip and you ended empty the whole glass
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  5. #105
    McCarronXLD's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: |RGM| Real Garrison Mod 7.4 (Beta)

    Loving the CAI. Makes the AI very active. Though, I wish they were less aggressive towards the player until they were at war with us.

    Have a crash to report. I seem to keep crashing around the 25ish turn mark. Been playing as Shimazu. Have restarted the campaign 3 times and the same CTD happens on each campaign.
    "You hurt me long ago; my wounds bled for years. Now you are back, but I am not the same."

  6. #106
    Junaidi83 de Bodemloze's Avatar Dont Mess With Me
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    Default Re: |RGM| Real Garrison Mod 7.4 (Beta)

    I see,you can wait till i release the proper latest patch hope its will cure permanent ctd,you can also upload the save game, so i can check out what cause the problem, i do post ctd fix tips in the main thread, but its only work for random and not permanent ctd, try to apply it,maybe you can get past the damn turn. Always crash in wakoo turn right ?
    Last edited by Junaidi83 de Bodemloze; October 02, 2014 at 08:13 AM.
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  7. #107
    McCarronXLD's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: |RGM| Real Garrison Mod 7.4 (Beta)

    Actually it crashes for a number of reasons on that turn, but only on that turn. If I hover my mouse over something it will crash, if I try to not touch anything and press enter to get past the turn it will crash on any of the AI's turns. This last time I tried to get past it I actually completed the turn! But it crashed as soon as I moved my mouse at the start of the next turn.

    Here is the save game: http://www.mediafire.com/download/wq...r/Shimazu.save
    "You hurt me long ago; my wounds bled for years. Now you are back, but I am not the same."

  8. #108

    Default Re: |RGM| Real Garrison Mod 7.4 (Beta)

    hi there, I have no time to try out this mod, would the creator please explain what values were changed in CAI tables to improve the activeness of AI?

  9. #109
    Junaidi83 de Bodemloze's Avatar Dont Mess With Me
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    Default Re: |RGM| Real Garrison Mod 7.4 (Beta)

    You need to alter the cai personalites tables, minimum chance to win, campaign_ai_personality_junctions_tables,edit or tweak some of the cdir to support it, and not to mention to build the rigid system caps to limit the ai capabilities to spam, for more guide i suggest go to Hedge knight thread here .Both cai in rome 2 and shogun 2,basicly have similiar system, you able to understand the shogun 2, you can apply its knowledge to rome 2.

    You must understand that to make AI aggresive or not its divided into two mains ways :
    1.You need to alter what faction personality military behaviour,defensive,aggresive,super aggresive, similiar like budget system.Basicly you just force AI to do the job
    2.Then you must edit the part where its says the chance to attack, defend and attacking,help ally and other stuff . Basicly this number serve as second base to make ai calculate wheter to attack,defend,expand or build something properly.And part of this is quite lethal since you can make him so cunning smart,or just reckless AI

    Basicly if you understand what i write then you can understand why sometimes in rome 2 some faction can be passive or why cai only send small number stack of men.Rome 2 CAI is just upgrade from Shogun 2, but the basic concept is same.

    Still even with good AI is not enough since in the end you need to rebuild the entire system so the CAI can work as what you have in your image.Editing CAI is editing how the AI react and take decision wheter is good or bad for him.You still need other system to support it,like unit cost,units caps so the AI know his limit to recruit xxx units.

    If you try to change the CAI without the basic system to support it, you only making it gone worse. Also i do check some of your post its seem most of it corcerning about modding stuff are you plan to release some new kind of mod sir ? Just curious

    Actually it crashes for a number of reasons on that turn, but only on that turn. If I hover my mouse over something it will crash, if I try to not touch anything and press enter to get past the turn it will crash on any of the AI's turns. This last time I tried to get past it I actually completed the turn! But it crashed as soon as I moved my mouse at the start of the next turn.
    I will check it,but honestly you should wait till i release the proper 7.4 patch, since its already contain most fix,upgrade and other juicy stuff that enchance the gameplay. 7.4 Beta you play is like raw meat in comparison to the (cooked meat) latest patch i working on right now.Just be patient Sir
    Last edited by Junaidi83 de Bodemloze; October 02, 2014 at 02:52 PM.
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  10. #110
    McCarronXLD's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: |RGM| Real Garrison Mod 7.4 (Beta)

    Fair enough! I shall be patient then.
    "You hurt me long ago; my wounds bled for years. Now you are back, but I am not the same."

  11. #111

    Default Re: |RGM| Real Garrison Mod 7.4 (Beta)

    Thanks for the long reply sir.

    When i was modding the AI, I was basically trying to get the AI to know to retreat when the it has a disadvantage. In the end I failed to do this and have been on a hiatus because of it. I wanted the AI to become both opportunist and aggressive. In that it doesnt attack when it has a disadvantage and retreats when it has a disadvantage. hedge knight's guide was a great help but in this case i couldnt find a solution.

    I might work on AI a little this weekend and see if I make any progress. Most of the stuff in my mod is related to dynamic caps and effects of traits, abilities, relics etc. I also tried to get rid of some stuff that give the player an advantage over the AI such as ashigaru spearwalls and loose formation.

    I really like this mod though from the description and the diplomacy being improved in conjunction with AI helping allies is just awesome. I will definitely look through your tables and steal some concepts

  12. #112
    Junaidi83 de Bodemloze's Avatar Dont Mess With Me
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    Default Re: |RGM| Real Garrison Mod 7.4 (Beta)

    hedge knight's guide was a great help but in this case i couldnt find a solution.
    Many moth ago i also suffer the same fate like you , keep reading eventualy you will get it

    I wanted the AI to become both opportunist and aggressive
    You need tweak the expansion value higher then other,you also need to set cai personalites, but like i said before, you need base system to support it,either you will face unlimited spam, or he just make suicidal decision, MINIMUM chance value is the key on this one

    I also tried to get rid of some stuff that give the player an advantage over the AI such as ashigaru spearwalls and loose formation.
    ah yes i already done its, its also help me relax when controlling 40 units without the urge to click all of special ability, just keep one or two that realy important. Try to edit some of general ability like rally, basicly either human or AI can spam rally everytime unit start to break.Especialy human, nastly little creature, so in the end if you wrong manouver your army in battle and ended failure, that its, no chance to fix it.Make player think carefull before just random click

    I really like this mod though from the description and the diplomacy being improved in conjunction with AI helping allies is just awesome. I will definitely look through your tables and steal some concepts
    Thanks, and dont STEAL please since i never locked this mod into big vault so no one able to see it. Feel free to modify the any part in the mod to your heart content, hope it can help even a little in your mod work progress
    Last edited by Junaidi83 de Bodemloze; October 03, 2014 at 11:42 AM.
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  13. #113

    Default Re: |RGM| Real Garrison Mod 7.4 (Beta)

    Honestly this mod is genius and I cant wait to play it once i get the chance

  14. #114
    Junaidi83 de Bodemloze's Avatar Dont Mess With Me
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    Default Re: |RGM| Real Garrison Mod 7.4 (Beta)

    Honestly this mod is genius
    Honestly, this part is a bit embrassing considering how poor this mod condition in 7.4 beta,that why i still working on fix this and that, since this mod still have many rooms for improvements, in comparison to DEI mod or medieval rome 2 or even radious rome 2 its realy pale comparison
    Last edited by Junaidi83 de Bodemloze; October 03, 2014 at 11:51 AM.
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  15. #115

    Default Re: |RGM| Real Garrison Mod 7.4 (Beta)

    another aspect I tried to focus on was access to guns. historically some clans had access to guns easier than other clans. for example, hojo didnt have as many opportunities to buy guns from nanban. I was thinking to make imported ashigaru be available from trade ports but only have a cap of 1, then increase cap by 1 only for fully upgraded drydocks.

    Then make nanban trade port a region specialization in some provinces and allow more cap to imported ashigaru by something larger such as 3. Then separate gunsmith from the siege weapon chain and make it available after matchlock mastery as well as have it require iron to build. have gunsmith greatly increase the number of matchlock ashigaru by something like 5. also have matchlock ashigaru and matchlock samurai require iron to build.

    In addition, make gunsmith a very high military value for AI in buildings table since historically clans wanted guns badly.

    This will help make the gun composition of armies more realistic imo.

  16. #116
    Junaidi83 de Bodemloze's Avatar Dont Mess With Me
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    Default Re: |RGM| Real Garrison Mod 7.4 (Beta)

    Quote Originally Posted by rzz41 View Post
    another aspect I tried to focus on was access to guns. historically some clans had access to guns easier than other clans. for example, hojo didnt have as many opportunities to buy guns from nanban. I was thinking to make imported ashigaru be available from trade ports but only have a cap of 1, then increase cap by 1 only for fully upgraded drydocks.

    Then make nanban trade port a region specialization in some provinces and allow more cap to imported ashigaru by something larger such as 3. Then separate gunsmith from the siege weapon chain and make it available after matchlock mastery as well as have it require iron to build. have gunsmith greatly increase the number of matchlock ashigaru by something like 5. also have matchlock ashigaru and matchlock samurai require iron to build.

    In addition, make gunsmith a very high military value for AI in buildings table since historically clans wanted guns badly.

    This will help make the gun composition of armies more realistic imo.
    Most of your idea is already i implement in my mods, you must remember the harder you get the musket , the more harder for ai to mass in the field, so even ai able to recruit its only small of clan 2 or 3 that finally to utilize its.So i make it like this

    Musket can be recruited via
    1.Nanban port with cap (mostly gun mercenary,historically correct)
    2.Castle lvl 2,3,4 (gun ashigaru) with unit cap, resource iron, and gun powder technology accessed by AI due fast reseach and more easy access
    3.Gun smith with caps (in my case only gun smith capable to recruit samurai matchlock and other higher musket)
    4.Market with caps (Its serve as mercenary market, including gun ronin).

    But in your case most iron is hard to find, its will cause the problem since the rarest in resource the more impossible for other Cai to recruit it, so i tweak mines also produce iron in little scale.Problem solved. Then we can finally see the age of gun warfare.

    No need to focus on gunsmith since ai will fill the slot building with dojo or other existed building, its will be pointless, unless ai already unlock it and conquer new province, but for building,upgrading, it takes times, not mention money and other problem like other cai attack or player attack. The more easy access the more better its result.
    Last edited by Junaidi83 de Bodemloze; October 03, 2014 at 12:10 PM.
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  17. #117

    Default Re: |RGM| Real Garrison Mod 7.4 (Beta)

    another aspect I worked on continually but was never able to solve is how to make enemy generals retreat off the battlefield when they suffer alot of losses rather than just sticking around then climbing the castle wall in a suicide charge. This probably NEVER happened in real history as generals retreated all the time and never charged head on.
    Armies used to just camp for days, weeks even months waiting for the perfect opportunity and would retreat if conditions werent ideal. The suicide behavior of AI generals is a big issue in the game I feel.

    also, as ive said i havent had the chance to play yet. but when I said I wanted the AI to be both aggressive and opportunistic I meant that the AI should know to retreat to his own territory if conditions on the field change. For example, if a hojo army attacks you with a stack of 20 katana cavalry and you are defending with only 10 units of bow ashigaru, it will siege your castle and stay sieged or just attack your castle directly. However, if your ally shows up with a stack of 20 yari samurai, the attacking hojo army should know that it no longer has the advantage and retreats back to his own territory. Ive gotten the aggressive part of AI working, but I have no idea how to get AI to retreat when the situation changes.

    could you confirm if the AI in this mod has this sort of feature?

  18. #118

    Default Re: |RGM| Real Garrison Mod 7.4 (Beta)

    also, have you worked with the animations tables much? 2 major things I tried to get working but failed on both accounts

    1)
    I tried to get the regular combat ready stance of yari ashigaru to become functionally the same as whatever stance they are in when spearwall formation is activated. The reason I want to get this working is because the spearwall formation prevents enemy units from charging into spearwall.
    as it stands without spearwall formation, katana units can just charge straight into even long yari ashigaru like the spears werent even there
    with spearwall formation, katana units will get stopped before they charge into spears and do a tumbling animation which imo is much better.

    2)
    I tried to make units not automatically lose in combat when they rout. just because a unit is running doesnt mean it automatically lose all ability to fight and lose thousands of mean. It still has the ability to inflict minor losses on the enemy.
    if you look in matched combat animation tables, there is a stance called "fleeing" in the katana calvary table. I tried to make some entries with the fleeing stance involving the unit fleeing winning combat but still i havent seen any routing units kill a enemy.

  19. #119

    Default Re: |RGM| Real Garrison Mod 7.4 (Beta)

    another option we can look at to make spearwall more balanced is to give it the auto activate option. The AI seems to be much more comfortable with abilities that autoactivate such as rapid advance, banzai, firearrows etc...

    if we make spearwall a autoactivate ability, the AI might use it in the same way as banzai and activate spearwall on a charge right before contact is made.

  20. #120
    Junaidi83 de Bodemloze's Avatar Dont Mess With Me
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    Default Re: |RGM| Real Garrison Mod 7.4 (Beta)

    another aspect I worked on continually but was never able to solve is how to make enemy generals retreat off the battlefield when they suffer alot of losses rather than just sticking around then climbing the castle wall in a suicide charge. This probably NEVER happened in real history as generals retreated all the time and never charged head on.
    Armies used to just camp for days, weeks even months waiting for the perfect opportunity and would retreat if conditions werent ideal. The suicide behavior of AI generals is a big issue in the game I feel.
    Its BAI things not CAI i realy dont have a clue for this stuff, but sometimes i see BAI actualy withdraw in battles sometimes, vanilla or mod game cant remember, but i think there are correlation between high star general with withdraw chance.Honestly i do tweak the general capable to be killing machine, in most case i prefer to shoot them out before they dismount and attack from foot. Save my troop from dying.

    could you confirm if the AI in this mod has this sort of feature?
    Its name minimum chance to win, and yes i do put 70 as value , i think it also mean 70% win before AI take action, and frankly AI will not wait you any longer since when he finally reach his targeted object or castle, that it, autoresolve (you will mostly lost by considerable margin) or play manual.Try to read hedge guide, its help a lot

    2)
    I tried to make units not automatically lose in combat when they rout. just because a unit is running doesnt mean it automatically lose all ability to fight and lose thousands of mean. It still has the ability to inflict minor losses on the enemy.
    if you look in matched combat animation tables, there is a stance called "fleeing" in the katana calvary table. I tried to make some entries with the fleeing stance involving the unit fleeing winning combat but still i havent seen any routing units kill a enemy.
    Impossible to do better spend your mind into other else, the close one is rome 2 rout animation like DEI, more harder to kill.

    another option we can look at to make spearwall more balanced is to give it the auto activate option. The AI seems to be much more comfortable with abilities that autoactivate such as rapid advance, banzai, firearrows etc.
    Quite possible,try campaign variable, there is value to make BAI actualy used sort of skill he have when he have the chance. Hell i even dont know how to make my yari unit actualy do square formation. If the ai think surrounded then maybe he used the skill, its seem its can happen in defensive play not aggresive since BAI will run and charge you, so skill is no no,if we talking like other ability yes its possible.Formation na da!!
    Last edited by Junaidi83 de Bodemloze; October 03, 2014 at 12:51 PM.
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