Portrayals of martial arts fights in historical films

I'm not a big martial arts guru by any stretch of the imagination, but I like to think that I know a bad ass, realistic fight when I see one. There are lots of martial arts movies that are set in the present day, for instance Tony Jaa's first Ong Bak and Protector series from Thailand. However, I find historical settings to be intriguing for such fights, especially if they are dedicated to real people from the past. For instance, Donnie Yen portraying Yip Man, the guy who taught Bruce Lee as his student, portrayed here fighting the Japanese during their occupation of China in WWII.



Such an awesome scene! Warning, though, there is a little bit of blood, but no gore.

I'm sure someone is going to show some Akira Kurosawa action, but that was mostly with katanas and sword-fighting, right? I'm thinking more of hand-to-hand combat for this thread.

So how realistic was the fight in the scene above? What movies do you think portray the most realistic fight scenes? You can break the rule about historical settings, but try to find films as such.

That is my favourite fight scene from any movie ever.

Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix

I'm sure someone is going to show some Akira Kurosawa action, but that was mostly with katanas and sword-fighting, right?

As a matter of fact Kurosawa's very first movie was about a Judo practitioner - Sanshiro Sugata/Judo Saga (1943). He even provided a sequel two year later. I believe the clip below is from the first film.




Back to the topic:

Once Upon a Time in China 1, 2, 3 (early 90s) - with Jet li as Wong Fei-hung, a legendary Chinese martial artis who who fought against foreign invaders in the late 19th century.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Fearless (2006) - again with Jet Li. A Chinese martial artist (Huo Yuanjia) challenges foreign fighters at the beginning of the 20th century.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The 36th Chamber of Shaolin (1978) - a movie about San Te, a Shaolin monk who rebelled against the Manchu occupation at the beginning of the 18th century. One of the better Hong Kong martial arts movies of the '70s and '80s.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Dragon (2011) - with Donnie Yen. A movie set in the early years of Communist rule in China, although the political aspects are not that emphasized here.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

More movies to be added if I remember them...


As long as they have decent production values, I don't mind watching most of these movies, even if the fights seem over the top sometimes (well, most of the time actually).

Originally Posted by Maximinus Thrax

As a matter of fact Kurosawa's very first movie was about a Judo practitioner - Sanshiro Sugata/Judo Saga (1943). He even provided a sequel two year later. I believe the clip below is from the first film.

Great to see someone remembers that film. There's a sequel too. Zoku Sugata Sanshiro. Kurosawa clearly admired the work of Jigoro Kano.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0038268/

There's a lesser known martial arts film called Kuro-Obi. I think you'll love it. NO SPECIAL EFFECTS and genuine martial artists were in it. It's a deeply sincere film.


In a similar theme, Red Belt is a very fine film about the mixed martial arts. It's written and directed by David Mamet who's a student of the mixed martial arts and you can see his deep devotion to it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redbelt

There are few films like this, for people want to see an action film and not a story about the journey of the martial artist. Another lesser known film and true story is Iron and Silk (1990), an autobiographical film about Mark Salzman and his teachers especially Pan Qingfu. Both star as themselves.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_%2...281990_film%29
The trailer can be seen at rotten tomatoes:
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/iro...lers/10904612/

It's extremely difficult to show genuine martial arts. They're dangerous to do and accidents can easily happen especially with weapons. I have the deepest admiration for Hiroyuki Sanada who spent a major portion of his youth studying a variety of traditional Japanese martial arts in special schools created to preserve them in order to be depicted in film. You've probably seen him in The Last Samurai, but his truly great film is Twilight Samurai, a sincere tale of a humble and impoverished samurai, who's an adept with the katana, and who's given a very rough task to execute another samurai. The film portrays the very real downfall of the samurai, the issues of Bushido and the lack of sincerity by the leaders, the quandary of doing what is right versus loyalty, etc.


In terms of epic battles demonstrating the martial arts, I'd have to recommend Ran.


Or Kagemusha:

Thanks, Maximinus! Those clips are awesome, pure gold. Also, thanks for clearing that up about Kurosawa.

Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix

So how realistic was the fight in the scene above? What movies do you think portray the most realistic fight scenes? You can break the rule about historical settings, but try to find films as such.

Its not realistic. No idea about the technique used, but those 10 guys just jumped around in the background while he was attacking one or two guys. It was fun though.

Well , realistic fights would not make great cinema. Realistic fights look ugly. No flashy legwork , no overstylized poses . Really dull aesthetically speaking. The style of fighting shown in movies is mostly stuff martial artists would use for a demonstration , not in a 'real' fight. In a lot of movies the aftermath of winning a fight is often forgotten . Even if you win , you're still left with bruised knuckles and ribs , a loose tooth here and there , a hurt jawbone , torn bloodies clothing , ...

That aside , I do love my martial arts movies. But I'm more of an old skool guy. Older work by Jackie Chan , Yuen Biao , Samo Hung , Jet Li , ... Great stuff! I would like to link the endfight of Chan's 'The Young Master' , simply because it's one of the most 'enduring' fights , and it's got the most awesome grappling techniques I ever saw in a movie. It's not on youtube for the moment , so here's a link : http://killerfrog.com/videos/jackie-...ight-6617.html Be warned , it's old... (grappling starts at 1:00)

Great suggestions, RubiconDecision, thanks! I especially agree with Ran. The battles in that movie, especially the siege of the castle that gets burned down, are amazing.

I know you are more aiming at hand to hand fighting, but i thought you might enjoy this scene of the movie "After the rain" :



The movie is about a ronin and his wife who are stopped at an inn by the rain and an overflowing river, this forced stop gives him some opportunities to show his skills with a sword to the locals and attract the attention of the local lord.

Originally Posted by Keyser

I know you are more aiming at hand to hand fighting, but i thought you might enjoy this scene of the movie "After the rain" :



The movie is about a ronin and his wife who are stopped at an inn by the rain and an overflowing river, this forced stop gives him some opportunities to show his skills with a sword to the locals and attract the attention of the local lord.

It's very fine cinema as well as being an enjoyable film that easily is meaningful to anyone watching it. It's the last screenplay of Kurosawa, and so there's references to that fact in some prints of the film. It won international acclaim as well.

The story is about mostly common folks who are trapped in an inn due to flooding. Porters would help people traverse the perpetual streams near the rivers since there were inadequate bridges. So you have boatmen and porters who earn their living ferrying travelers (pilgrims, people relocating to another area, people under orders to go here and there) plus locals who are servicing the travelers.

Along with that, there's an itinerant ronin played by Akira Terao. He's an honorable man of Bushido, but one that's had to move around because of his adherence to the spirit of his beliefs, not taking the easy road to ignore his principles. Of course this means losing his status constantly, and now he's aging with less and less opportunities to advance. This is often a theme (in cinema, in anime, and in literature) in a post-Sengoku world in which the samurai have become more and more irrelevant due to Tokugawa unifying the country.

I'm not certain of Akira Terao's martial arts training. Perhaps someone who lives in Japan knows? The Japanese, the Chinese, and the Thai all have schools of the martial arts, in which very young people are recruited for competitions and film. Because of chambara (action related duels) and jidaigeki (historical drama about the samurai) films, there are martial arts schools specifically made for transitioning students into film and authentically demonstrating those traditional martial arts like kyudo, iaido, karate, etc.

What's impressive about Akira Terao's portrayal is that much of the film is about him dodging the other's aggressive actions with incredible speed and dexterity. He's not young in that film, so it's rather remarkable. The fight choreography is impressive.

Because of the rise of mixed martial arts and the transition of some of its adherents into film, we might expect more and more of that. The problem is the techniques show in bouts are rather limited (one more arm bar, one more elbow smash to the face, one more choke hold) when in fact they know a huge number of ground techniques, something one sees in Red Belt.

Certainly the Israeli's very practical martial art Krav Maga would be thrilling to see on the screen.

The principle actors were briefly taught Escrima for the film, The Hunted, but that's nothing like seeing two experts demonstrate it. It's expecting a lot for someone to be both an expert martial artist AND an actor, so usually something suffers in their delivery.

Some of the finest swordsmanship can be seen in the Japanese film Gohatto (Taboo) which was made in 1999, but the homosexual theme is off putting to larger audiences. It's worth seeing just for the action sequences. It's honestly one of the few films about homosexuality that also make it more understandable as a phenomena too.


The American/Japanese film, The Hunted, features some authentic traditional Japanese martial arts.


The far older film, The Challenge (1982), features traditional martial arts too.


Zatoichi probably features some of the best swordsmanship in a recent film.

I'll just have to post this here..

When you say Martial Arts, do you mean only Eastern martial arts?

Not at all! East Asian cultures don't have a monopoly on martial arts, obviously, even though the term itself is most heavily associated with your generic kung fu, karate, etc.

For instance, we could discuss things as broad as Malla-yuddha combat wrestling from India to Greco-Roman style wrestling.

/thread

The Raid Redemption had some good fights.
Eastern, but quite different from your more common Japanese and Chinese martial arts.

Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix

I'm not a big martial arts guru by any stretch of the imagination, but I like to think that I know a bad ass, realistic fight when I see one. There are lots of martial arts movies that are set in the present day, for instance Tony Jaa's first Ong Bak and Protector series from Thailand. However, I find historical settings to be intriguing for such fights, especially if they are dedicated to real people from the past. For instance, Donnie Yen portraying Yip Man, the guy who taught Bruce Lee as his student, portrayed here fighting the Japanese during their occupation of China in WWII.



Such an awesome scene! Warning, though, there is a little bit of blood, but no gore.

I'm sure someone is going to show some Akira Kurosawa action, but that was mostly with katanas and sword-fighting, right? I'm thinking more of hand-to-hand combat for this thread.

So how realistic was the fight in the scene above? What movies do you think portray the most realistic fight scenes? You can break the rule about historical settings, but try to find films as such.

Well if you enjoyed that you might enjoy Killzone. It is a good story with Sammo Hung playing an excellent crime lord. I'd urge you not to watch any clips though as you don't want spoilers.

One of his best fight scenes though is from Flash Point. The fighting is incredibly realistic throughout the film except for the longevity and amount of punishment any fighter can take. Donnie Yen looks both angry and powerful, I love it. Again not a bad story, he did gritty better than artsy IMO.

Originally Posted by Påsan

Its not realistic. No idea about the technique used, but those 10 guys just jumped around in the background while he was attacking one or two guys. It was fun though.

Well the only way one person is ever going to beat 10 is if they are forced to bunch up and not crowd him (tight alley say, saw it happen once with 7...but it was more 2 then 2 then 3 then 1) but the Wing Chun isn't bad as a very classical interpretation. I have done both Classical Wing Chun and MMA seasoned with Wing Chun, no need to ask which one is better. Donnie Yen does a decent job of both though. Forgive the dramatic license (its a martial arts movie howay).

Originally Posted by Manco

The Raid Redemption had some good fights.
Eastern, but quite different from your more common Japanese and Chinese martial arts.

Raid redemption is good. I liked the second one but there is also the lesser known Merentau which is decent.



Honourable mentions to Jackie Chan in Gorgeous (awful film great spectacle fight(s), speaking of Wing Chun, wonderful little Chi Sao introduction and about 2.50 the little guys foot work is exceptional from that point on)



and samurai of ayothaya for a great rendition of traditional thai form:



Just recently started watching martial arts again.

Drunken Master for the win! Thank you Captain Jin. I haven't seen that movie in a long time.

And thank you Inhuman One for referencing a great but cheesy movie from my childhood.

Also big thanks to RubiconDecision for all the serious clips.

I thought this was supposed to martial arts of historical figures not just martial arts.

I don't know how good the fighting really is, but the longest cinema fight scene is from John Carpenter's They Live. There's too much cursing to show a clip as it breaks the ToS. It's mildly amusing though because of the depth of punishment.

I recently watched the Korean film War of the Arrows, which features the relatively unknown art of Gungdo, which is a very powerful short bow made of water buffalo horn. Besides lots of really great archery scenes, there's an amusing fight between two relatives who are out drinking and one takes a punch to the stomach and vomits on the other. Pretty crazy scene.


There's been several topics on fight scenes including ones on amazing demonstrations of sword duels too.

Wesley Snipes is one of those rare action stars who actually has an impressive martial arts resume (5th degree in Shotokan karate and 2nd or 3rd in Hapkido among many others) and who has also tried to make the fight scenes looking both entertaining and authentic. He's not a great actor though. Steven Seagal in his first film Above the Law (1988)featured some wicked looking Aikido, and he's one of the few Westerners from that era who also taught in Japan, which was kind of a big deal way back when.
Too much cursing, removed vids.

Historical settings or figures in the settings but I was more replying to the suggestions given by the OP to make helpful suggestions of other movies he might like. And Ayothaya is historical in its setting.