Two Kurds were killed by Turkish military in protest and Erdogan said he would punish the rest!!

[hellheaven1987]

Oh well, Kurds are not Turks anyway.

Two Kurdish protesters have died from gunshot wounds sustained in clashes with government soldiers in south-eastern Turkey.

They were demonstrating against government plans to build new military barracks in Diyarbakir province.

A crowd of demonstrators threw petrol bombs at security forces. The sides accuse each other of opening fire.

Building new army posts in majority-Kurdish areas is seen by many as a threat to the peace process.

It began in 2012 in an attempt to end a 30-year insurgency by Kurdish rebels of the PKK which has claimed at least 40,000 lives.

The protests against the new military posts have intensified in the last couple of weeks.

They also come just ahead of a critical presidential election, which Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan is widely expected to contest.

Support from the Kurdish minority - some 20% of the Turkish population - could be key to his chances of success, observers say.

Source

Turkey's prime minister has vowed to make a Kurdish protester who took down the national flag "pay the price".

Photographs taken on Sunday showed a masked protester scaling a flagpole inside a Turkish military base in the majority-Kurdish Diyarbakir province.

Kurds demonstrated again on Monday against plans to build a new army base in the area.

On Sunday, two Kurdish protesters died after being shot the previous day in clashes with government troops.

The upsurge in tensions sparked by the deaths and the plans to build the army base are seen as a threat to the peace process.

It began in 2012 in an attempt to end a 30-year insurgency by rebels of the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) which has claimed at least 40,000 lives.

Source

Well, regardless the endless number of protests in Turkey in past two years, I do wonder why Erdogan keeps making violent reactions and comments in past few months - it seems... he has lost his coolness...

[Tureuki]

This is not a protest, its plain terrorism, in fact military and police been very patient in order to not damage "peace process", they have been blockading a main road(connects two regions) for days, they even wounded soldiers and road workers with assault rifles, they even charged into a military post and took down a flag and nobody shot them just because they're ordered to be patient ! what would happen if you tried to break into an American military post ?

Their main aim was to make military or police shot them so they could use this to cause havoc.

Their excuse is even more ridiculous, according to them we can't build military posts there they're getting more and more arrogant everyday.

[AqD]

Their excuse is even more ridiculous, according to them we can't build military posts there they're getting more and more arrogant everyday.

Why can't you just give them what they want? What's the point of peace talking over one's right of freedom and independence from others?

[Stavroforos]

Kurds are so annoying, let Erdogan do what he wants.

[white-wolf]

When you attack to military with assult rifles, you might be gunned down.

I believe the police, gendarme and mlitary have been very patient. They even let him live, the scum who bring down the flag from pole at enterance of a military camp. I think PKK supporters do not understand how Turkish people/public started to get angry.

[PointOfViewGun]

Oh boy. Bunch of people died due to police brutality in the last year as part of the Gezi and other similar protests and the thousands of cops show up the moment the protests start. When a group of Kurdic people blocked a road with guns it took the government 6-7 days to respond and two people died because of it. Yes, Kurdic people are not Turkic indeed.

[alhoon]

Where the heck the Kurds found Assault rifles?

And to make the actual question: Is this possibly Syria-spillover? Are those Kurds part of, or connected with the Syria groups?

[Tureuki]

Everybody has an AK 47 at their house at there, its too cheap and found everywhere.

[Treize]

Most Kurds have no love for the government... It is stupid of them to build a base there, as it is such a sensitive issue for the people there. The region is now pretty much pacified anyway, to keep it that way they need to take away the causes of Kurdish resentment. They are doing the opposite by this.

[Tureuki]

I have no intent of giving up on my legal land for childish nationalist pride, I have full support to basic ethnic/cultural rights, but insisting on virtually independence is nothing more then a nationalist reaction.

[Hobbes]

Are they taking your property?

[Treize]

Are they taking your property?

Strange how Turks have no problem with taking property themselves...

Anyway, ofcourse Kurds in Turkey will never have independence. Autonomy would be tricky too considering the highly centralised republican state model they took from the French.
The Kurds deeply distrust the government because the government has always pushed to turn the diverse Anatolian population into a europe-style nation though homogenising the culture, identity and language of the peoples there. Now the small groups like the Laz and Rumca and also the spread out Mucahir groups were easy to assimilate. But the Kurds were/are simply to numerous to assimilate. They tried anyway. So this is were the Kurdish anger comes from. If the Turkish government gives some (local) status to minority languages and allowes the teaching in state schools the idea that their culture is under threat by a government that seeks to turn them into Mountain-Turks will disappear I think the distrust and anger will decrease quickly.

And it is very silly that it is even neccesary to begin with but the Turkish elite has always seen the Kurds as a bunch of barbarians who they need to civilise. And by civilising they mean giving them education, destroy the tribal structures and teach them Turkish. So the Kurds will have to show that their pride of their culture and language is not linked to habits like forced child marriage, keeping girls away from school and blowing up buses with civilians. Also acts like in the OP will probably anger your average Turk in some major city away from the Kurdish regions.

Luckily for them today more than 50% of Turks are now OK with more language rights.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Kurdistan is like Al-Qaeda in so far as their policy to piss everyone off goes.
The Grand Coalition strikes! Iran, Iraq, Syria and Turkey have united! Kurdistan is no more...
Or at least it will probably end up that way.

[Tureuki]

Yes my and everyone's property. these lands are not blessed to us by superpowers in agreements where borders are drawn with ruler, everyone's blood is spilled, everyone paid taxes, that stupid nationalist reaction is not a valid cause.

Treize

Its far beyond some some language rights, a statement of a BDP parliamenter just sums it up, he said some days ago that when they become autonomous they would not pay taxes to Ankara but they would accept economical aid from Ankara, what they want is practically independence but still having economical and political coverage of Turkey, one has to be retarded to accept that.

[Treize]

Treize

Its far beyond some some language rights, a statement of a BDP parliamenter just sums it up, he said some days ago that when they become autonomous they would not pay taxes to Ankara but they would accept economical aid from Ankara, what they want is practically independence but still having economical and political coverage of Turkey, one has to be retarded to accept that.

So free money? That's what happens in Scotland too and they still hate the state.

I just think the Kurds and others have lived in the region for many centuries, are a native group and as such their culture and langauge should be respected. This also means the state should help them to preserve it, otherwise the languages will die out eventually. Ofcourse the Kurds do not like this as almost all people value and respect their own heritage. It is shamefull the nationalists have always tried to destroy it. I can understand the Kurds to be resentful towards the Turkish government because of this. So I very much agree they should have language freedom and the educational system in Kurdish regions should help them preserve their identity by teaching Kurdish like twice a week or something. I think if this happens or is allowed then the Kurds will no longer feel threatened by the state assimilation policies (that seemed to have stopped mostly since Erdogan took power).

The problem ofcourse is that a state should prevent the situation of the UK or Spain were you give them everything they want and they still hate the state even though all real oppression is long gone and still want to seperate. So in this case it would be wrong to create autonomous regions. If decentralisation should happen it should happen for all regions/districts and not based on ethnic nationalism. Finding the right balance would be the main issue.


Also, maybe you can help me considering your early statements, why is the public opinion so much against Kurds? It is only because many of them refused to assimilate and prefer their own culture? Is it only because of PKK actions? Or is it because of their backwards culture and sometimes (often) distasteful habits? A combination?

And what would the view of this Ekmeleddin İhsanoğlu guy be with regards to this issue?

[Geronimo2006]

I've always believed the Kurds are entitled - morally if not legally - to a state. They are 38 million in the Middle East - probably 3 times Syria's population. The Treaty of Sevres after WW1 promised them a state but the Turks successfully resisted this militarily and drove out Allied powers. I understand Turkey not wanting to lose territory. However their historical opposition to a Kurdish state in Northern Iraq (de jure) seems unreasonable. Such a state might reduce separatist demands within Turkey itself, as Turks wanting a state might move there instead. The Iraqi state was simply the old Ottoman province of Iraq. It is not a stable entity. It is another example of borders drawn by empires in part in order to ensure they could not be stable as an independent state.

[hellheaven1987]

Such a state might reduce separatist demands within Turkey itself, as Turks wanting a state might move there instead.

So was Austrians believed a free Serbia would reduce separatist movement within empire, which turned out false if not worse.

[Tureuki]

Treize

Its mostly PKK's actions but their usual habits also has a negative view in public, there are of course exceptions but many Kurds are rough and aggressive, they're acting like a herd, when there is a situation they always use violence and its not just 1-2 person, you can't even realize when 2 person multiplied into tens in a quick period, when they become numerous they start trying to dominate where they live, usually bullying locals. Many of their traditions are alien to us as well, honor killings, unending blood feud, tribal organizations etc.

Geronimo

Turkey doesn't clearly opposes Iraqi Kurdistan, we have a considerable amount of relationship with them and in fact many people says what you say, "if they want a state there is one in Iraq" but of course nobody would leave where they live, they want to establish Kurdistan in all four countries, Syria, Iraq, Turkey and Iran and they have no intention of giving up in any of them.

[Treize]

Treize

Its mostly PKK's actions but their usual habits also has a negative view in public, there are of course exceptions but many Kurds are rough and aggressive, they're acting like a herd, when there is a situation they always use violence and its not just 1-2 person, you can't even realize when 2 person multiplied into tens in a quick period, when they become numerous they start trying to dominate where they live, usually bullying locals. Many of their traditions are alien to us as well, honor killings, unending blood feud, tribal organizations etc.

Well yes, but that only proves that the Kurds are a different people. The plan to assimilate them was stupid to begin with and counter-productive as it alienated them.
I do not in any way defend their habits like honour killings and such (they do it here too) but I think you need to make a distinction between Kurdish identity as such and the negative aspects of this. Trying to destroy their identity and language in order to "civilise" them seems to me like throwing out the baby with the bathwater.


Actually the funny thing is that the PKK sympathisers are probably alot less tribal and archaic than the AKP Kurds lol.

[Condottiere 40K]

That may be due to a pragmatic view that they have to tolerate a Kurdish autonomous state carved from Iraq, and possibly a new one coming to fruition in Syria.