Australia - best buddy of Israel the rogue state now?

[hellheaven1987]

Australia has a lot of best friends. Sometimes it's Japan. Sometimes it's Indonesia. Sometimes it's China.

Now, though, the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu thinks he might have found a new best mate Down Under.

After a quick call to congratulate the new President of Egypt Abdul Fattah al-Sisi on his election victory, which many regard as far from democratic, Mr Netanyahu singled out Australia for high praise at his weekly cabinet meeting in Jerusalem on Sunday.

It came after Australia last week stepped into the always-combustible territory of Middle Eastern linguistics, and seemingly changed its position regarding whether East Jerusalem is "occupied".

Last week the Australian Attorney General George Brandis issued a statement saying: "The description of East Jerusalem as 'Occupied East Jerusalem' is a term freighted with pejorative implications which is neither appropriate nor useful."

The statement was made in consultation with the Australian Foreign Ministry, after Mr Brandis had been challenged in parliament over his failure to refer to East Jerusalem as occupied.

Mr Netanyahu was quick to offer his appreciation of Australia saying the remarks had taken "courage" and calling it "refreshing given the chorus of hypocrisy and ignorance".

The Israeli Prime Minister's spokespeople took to the twittersphere to reiterate the thank you message.

Others though were not best pleased.

The Palestinian Authority reportedly summoned Australia's representative to explain the change in position.

The Palestinian Foreign Minister Riyad Al Maliki called it a "radical change in Australia's position on Palestine".

Independent Australian Senator Nick Xenophon said it was "an extraordinary and reckless departure from the bipartisan approach of the last 47 years".

"Even Israel's strongest ally, the United States, does not hold this position," he added.

Jerusalem is at the heart of the Middle East's most intractable conflict between Israelis and Palestinians.

The Old City in East Jerusalem contains some of the holiest sites of Islam, Judaism and Christianity.

Israel captured East Jerusalem along with Gaza, the West Bank, the Golan Heights and the Sinai Peninsula during the 1967 Six Day Arab Israeli war.

East Jerusalem was annexed by Israel taking full control.

The Sinai was returned to Egypt under a piece deal signed in 1979.

Almost the entire international community, including the United States, does not recognise Israel's annexation of East Jerusalem

The United Nations and the International Court of Justice regard East Jerusalem as occupied territory.

President Obama has called for the ending of "the occupation, which began in 1967". Although in his speech to the United Nations General Assembly he did not specify if he was referring to East Jerusalem.

The United States, European Union and the United Nations all believe a future Palestinian state should be based around the pre-1967 borders.

The Palestinians want East Jerusalem to be their future capital.

Israel regards a "United Jerusalem" as its capital although most countries do not accept this and have their embassies based in Tel Aviv.

Australia has not said whether it will move its embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

But wait!!

So Australia is seemingly going out on a limb.

The country has long been regarded as a strong supporter of Israel.

Along with Israel, Australia was one of only 14 out of 194 UN members to oppose Palestine becoming a member of Unesco, the United Nations education, and scientific and cultural organisation in 2011.

Australia abstained from the vote in 2012 that saw Palestine become a "non-member observer state". Forty other UN members abstained. 138 voted in favour and 9 voted against.

Australia's support for Israel is contentious here.

The former Labor Foreign Minister Bob Carr has recently said that extreme right-wing Israeli lobbyists here had an extraordinary influence on Australian policy in the Middle East under former Prime Minister Julia Gillard that he regarded as "very unhealthy."

Mr Carr's comments were strongly criticised by the Israeli government and some of the country's supporters.

Why Australia has chosen now to change its position is not clear.

It's possible Mr Brandis was speaking off the cuff or out of turn, but the clarifying statement suggests not.

The country has a relatively small Jewish population of about 100,000 (0.4% of the total).

The Arab population is much larger: roughly 300,000 people, mostly of Lebanese origin, but including around 7,000 Palestinians.

Israel's critics will say the change on policy shows the influence of the lobby group Mr Carr talked about.

The US Secretary of State John Kerry said continued expansion of Jewish settlements in East Jerusalem and the West Bank was one of the primary reasons for the collapse of recent peace talks.

Israel has been warned it is currently facing increasing international isolation.

That's why the Israeli government will value the fact that it still has a friend in Australia.

Source

So why Australia is always supporting Israel? To hide its own past guilt of robbing natives' lands?

[AqD]

Palestinian Authority and Palestinian Foreign Minister? Do they have diplomatic relationships to anyone? Do they import or export anything?

[Uriyaca]

A step in the right direction which will hopefully lead to the world in our favor and will stop the attempts of the PA to collapse the peace talks over an over again.

I would ask those who deny the fact that East Jerusalem is Israel's capital, take a second to understand the deep connection of the Jewish people to it. Zionism is gets its name for a very simple reason- the craving for Zion, the old name of Jerusalem. For the entire history of the Jewish people all the way back from the days of David the great (so, for the 700 years we held the land) united jerusalem was our capital. For the 2 thousand years that followed, while we were prosecuted, killed and tortured in the spanish inquisition, the hollocaust, the wild butchering of jews in Russia, the jewish people's heart has always been in Zion. At the Home Mountain, on which today lays the Al Akza masjid, Abraham has offered to sacrifise Isaac to god to show his loyalty (I am personally an atheist but this is an imporant story in jewish culture) and King Solomon had later built the Mt. Home great temple, which was later destroyed by the greeks and then later King Herod has built the second temple. Our connection to Jerusalem is much deeper than most countries hold their own capitals too. Someone that does not recognize Jerusalem as our capital might as well consider our entire country as "occupied terrirtory" and support Iran and Hamas as they attempt to throw us back to our previous countries. Jerusalem has been, is and will be our capital and it won't ever be divided. Tbh I don't really care what people think, countries can put their embassies at Tel-Aviv if they want, but at least I can see this article as encouraging news.

Before I finish, I would just ask, would you agree to give away half your capital? Give half of Moscow, or London, or Paris or Berlin. I would very much like to see if the Germans would agree to give eastern Berlin back to the Russians

[Vanoi]

A step in the right direction which will hopefully lead to the world in our favor and will stop the attempts of the PA to collapse the peace talks over an over again.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...tml?cmpid=yhoo

Israeli Economy Minister Naftali Bennett defended his proposal to annex West Bank territory as “the only sane plan,” even as it threatened to tear apart the government.

All the Israelis seem to do is come up with even more stupid ideas on how to solve this conflict. Thankfully there are sane people within Israel and this annexation will not go through.

This will not change the world favor towards Israel. Until Israel stops the building of settlements and doing stupid to stop the peace talks will the world favor them.

[Uriyaca]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...tml?cmpid=yhoo



All the Israelis seem to do is come up with even more stupid ideas on how to solve this conflict. Thankfully there are sane people within Israel and this annexation will not go through.

This will not change the world favor towards Israel. Until Israel stops the building of settlements and doing stupid to stop the peace talks will the world favor them.

FYI I am an enthusiastic supporter of Yesh Atid and Yair Lapid and I have voted for him in the elections two years ago. I never said we should annex the West Bank just yet, certainly not right now or in the near future. I was talking about Jerusalem, which even Leftish parties recognize as Israel's capital, in the Kneset, which is where? In JERUSALEM, as well as the Supreme court and every main goverment in our country.

IMO we should establish a sane Palestinian state in the A and B lands, and in time after full israeli settlement control over area C annex it, in due time.

As for Bennet, pay no respect for him. He is a radical right party which does not reflect in most Israelis. I personally dislike him almost as much as the ultra religious parties and Arab parties. Nobody is really considering annexing the West Bank at this point.

As for stupid ways to solve the conflict, you blame us???? Fatah has built a unity goverment with the Hamas, a fashio-islamic party which has murdered countless of Israelis in terrorist bombings and suicide attacks. Talk about moves that don't improve the situation. How can you even blame us for stopping the peace talks? I would like to see America nagotiating with Al-Quaida. Americans are such a bunch of hypocrits that its unbelievable.

In 2005, Israel has done exactly what you suggest in Gaza. We left Gaza and guess who took over? Hamas of course. Now Gaza is an Al-Quaida terror country which has sent 4000 rockets at Israeli civilions for the last 7 years. Even the UN ecknowleges Hamas as a terrorist organization. Right now, even the US is baffled whether to co-operate with the new Palestinian goverment. And you seek to blame us

Do you think that its right that when Israel builds up a couple of buildings in her capital (which btw, freezing the settlements was never one of the terms to engage in the nagotiations) it gets more of a disapproval worldwild than when a terror organization in which's election sheet says to murder every jew in sight and reconquer Israel for a holy Jihad? More then when mr. Assad throws explosive barrels at his own civilions?

I bet you've never even watched the video I sent you about past nagotiations with the PA did you.....

[Vanoi]

FYI I am an enthusiastic supporter of Yesh Atid and Yair Lapid and I have voted for him in the elections two years ago. I never said we should annex the West Bank just yet, certainly not right now or in the near future. I was talking about Jerusalem, which even Leftish parties recognize as Israel's capital, in the Kneset, which is where? In JERUSALEM, as well as the Supreme court and every main goverment in our country.

East Jerusalem is West Bank.

As for stupid ways to solve the conflict, you blame us???? Fatah has built a unity goverment with the Hamas, a fashio-islamic party which has murdered countless of Israelis in terrorist bombings and suicide attacks.

And? You can't achieve peace with two separate Palestinian governments. And the new unity government would not even be made up of Hamas members last time i checked.

Talk about moves that don't improve the situation. How can you even blame us for stopping the peace talks? I would like to see America nagotiating with Al-Quaida. Americans are such a bunch of hypocrits that its unbelievable.

Cause the Israeli conflict is so comparable to that of the conflict with America and Al-Qaeda. Is America occupying any Al-Qaeda land and trying to annex it slowly?

In 2005, Israel has done exactly what you suggest in Gaza. We left Gaza and guess who took over? Hamas of course. Now Gaza is an Al-Quaida terror country which has sent 4000 rockets at Israeli civilions for the last 7 years.

And who is to blame for that? Israel who occupied the areas for decades building illegal settlements?

Even the UN ecknowleges Hamas as a terrorist organization. Right now, even the US is baffled whether to co-operate with the new Palestinian goverment. And you seek to blame us

US sees the reality of the situation while Israel does not. A peace cannot be achieved with two separate Palestinian governments.

Do you think that its right that when Israel builds up a couple of buildings in her capital (which btw, freezing the settlements was never one of the terms to engage in the nagotiations) it gets more of a disapproval worldwild than when a terror organization in which's election sheet says to murder every jew in sight and reconquer Israel for a holy Jihad? More then when mr. Assad throws explosive barrels at his own civilions?

Probably because the settlement building is what causes that. There is a consequence for your actions. You build settlements and people hate you over it and want to attack you.

No different than the US really. Build settlements in land of Native Americans. Native Americans get pissed and started scalping and raiding white settlements. Cause and effect.

I bet you've never even watched the video I sent you about past nagotiations with the PA did you.....

No and i frankly don't care. Want me to get some quotes from Israeli officials on Palestinians? sometimes the Israels sound no different than Hamas themselves.

[Uriyaca]

East Jerusalem is West Bank.

And? You can't achieve peace with two separate Palestinian governments. And the new unity government would not even be made up of Hamas members last time i checked.



Cause the Israeli conflict is so comparable to that of the conflict with America and Al-Qaeda. Is America occupying any Al-Qaeda land and trying to annex it slowly?


And who is to blame for that? Israel who occupied the areas for decades building illegal settlements?


US sees the reality of the situation while Israel does not. A peace cannot be achieved with two separate Palestinian governments.


Probably because the settlement building is what causes that. There is a consequence for your actions. You build settlements and people hate you over it and want to attack you.

No different than the US really. Build settlements in land of Native Americans. Native Americans get pissed and started scalping and raiding white settlements. Cause and effect.


No and i frankly don't care. Want me to get some quotes from Israeli officials on Palestinians? sometimes the Israels sound no different than Hamas themselves.

Why would you ever think that Hamas will ever want to make peace with Israel? Most Palestinians support Hamas. Palestinians don't want peace. They want to killl us all and take our lands. Israel is the only country that sees things as they are, not the US.

Sometimes I wonder if you (as many other Europeans and Americans) even care about hearing Israel's part of the story and know really what is going on out here. I think you relish and enjoy your ingnorace which gives you legitimacy of your opinions. You don't want to know what the Palestinians are doing, right? Because they are the poor guys, their lands are occupied, their innocent like a newborn baby right?

Six wars Israel fought. None of them were initiated by us. Unprovoked the slightest bit. How do you think the six day war started? Israel ser upon herself to conquer everything? The exact opposit if anything. The Arab nations, including the Palestinians, wanted to conquer us. And if they had succeeded, they would have either deported or murdered everyone in their sight

I will not even bother responding to your posts from now on. If you care to know what is going on, and not just comfortably blame the "evil" israelis. Take a look at both sides and have all the information to make a ratonal and meaningfull opinion

[sumskilz]

You can't achieve peace with two separate Palestinian governments.

Right now, there is more peace than there has ever been for Israel. Only with unoccupied Gaza is there active conflict. Think about what that that means from the Israeli perspective.

[Kyriakos]

So... when will Israel send some forces to help us liberate our own historic capital of Constantinople?

Israel does not even recognise the Armenian genocide as a genocide. I mean there are levels of hypocricy, but sometimes one gets entirely outside of any respectable position.

A step in the right direction which will hopefully lead to the world in our favor and will stop the attempts of the PA to collapse the peace talks over an over again.

I would ask those who deny the fact that East Jerusalem is Israel's capital, take a second to understand the deep connection of the Jewish people to it. Zionism is gets its name for a very simple reason- the craving for Zion, the old name of Jerusalem. For the entire history of the Jewish people all the way back from the days of David the great (so, for the 700 years we held the land) united jerusalem was our capital. For the 2 thousand years that followed, while we were prosecuted, killed and tortured in the spanish inquisition, the hollocaust, the wild butchering of jews in Russia, the jewish people's heart has always been in Zion. At the Home Mountain, on which today lays the Al Akza masjid, Abraham has offered to sacrifise Isaac to god to show his loyalty (I am personally an atheist but this is an imporant story in jewish culture) and King Solomon had later built the Mt. Home great temple, which was later destroyed by the greeks and then later King Herod has built the second temple. Our connection to Jerusalem is much deeper than most countries hold their own capitals too. Someone that does not recognize Jerusalem as our capital might as well consider our entire country as "occupied terrirtory" and support Iran and Hamas as they attempt to throw us back to our previous countries. Jerusalem has been, is and will be our capital and it won't ever be divided. Tbh I don't really care what people think, countries can put their embassies at Tel-Aviv if they want, but at least I can see this article as encouraging news.

Before I finish, I would just ask, would you agree to give away half your capital? Give half of Moscow, or London, or Paris or Berlin. I would very much like to see if the Germans would agree to give eastern Berlin back to the Russians

[Uriyaca]

So... when will Israel send some forces to help us liberate our own historic capital of Constantinople?

Israel does not even recognise the Armenian genocide as a genocide. I mean there are levels of hypocricy, but sometimes one gets entirely outside of any respectable position.

Greece's hostirical capital was and is Athens. It was the cultural center and financial and military center of the Greek people. And I look to remind you that Israel didn't just wake up one day and set out to conquer east Jerusalem. If Turkey had attacked you you may have had a point.

And I have never seen or hear any Israeli official not recognizing the Armenian hollocaust. And it they didn't ecknowlege it, probably because they didn't want to worsen the already fragile relations with Turkey

[Kyriakos]

I think you are being serious here, but you should learn that Athens was the capital of Attica, and (practically) the Delian League, and then its second empire (much smaller). It was never a capital of the Greek state prior to the 19th century. Contrast that to Constantinople which clearly was the capital of the Greek world for a millenium, and even if one counts (quite arbitrarily) from the age of the arab expansion, the last Byzantine-Sassadid war- ie the age of Heraclius- it still was the capital for longer than Jerusalem ever was for the Jewish people

Merely trying to note to you that your argument that Jerusalem belongs to Israel cause it was in some israeli state millenia ago- does not really hold as much water as you think it does.

Greece's hostirical capital was and is Athens. It was the cultural center and financial and military center of the Greek people. And I look to remind you that Israel didn't just wake up one day and set out to conquer east Jerusalem. If Turkey had attacked you you may have had a point.

And I have never seen or hear any Israeli official not recognizing the Armenian hollocaust. And it they didn't ecknowlege it, probably because they didn't want to worsen the already fragile relations with Turkey

[Uriyaca]

I think you are being serious here, but you should learn that Athens was the capital of Attica, and (practically) the Delian League, and then its second empire (much smaller). It was never a capital of the Greek state prior to the 19th century. Contrast that to Constantinople which clearly was the capital of the Greek world for a millenium, and even if one counts (quite arbitrarily) from the age of the arab expansion, the last Byzantine-Sassadid war- ie the age of Heraclius- it still was the capital for longer than Jerusalem ever was for the Jewish people

Merely trying to note to you that your argument that Jerusalem belongs to Israel cause it was in some israeli state millenia ago- does not really hold as much water as you think it does.

Firstly, Israel does not have any suitable replacement for a capital like Greece has with Athens, other then maybe Hevron but that has a much lower ground and is also deep in West Bank territory.
Secondly, Israel held half of Jerusalem which most countries considered and consider legal.
Thirdly, as I said before, we conquered Jerusalem in a war that was forced upon us
Fourth difference is that Constantinopol was the capital of the ERE, not a Greek country which has never existed prior to that, unlike Israel.
Fifth difference is that Turkey was also part of that same empire so the rule over the city was never entirely greek- there wasn't much of a difference
Sixth difference is rhe religious reason which is much much greater in our case
Seventh difference is that Israel is a relatively young country and as it grows and settles down over the ages it wanted to create a larger, safer and stronger country in which it will then settle down and define its boundries. Much like the US. The Americans haven't built their country in a year, like the world claims the Israeli terriotry should be- but in 200 years. It was only 19 years old when the six day war erupted
Eight difference was very simply- security. Out coastline and center of our country was very thin (only 10km wide) and there was a real threat that the Arabs might be able to devide up our country
Ninth difference is very simple as well- Zionism. Our country extended much bigger in the past and we seek to recreate it, that is all

Enlugh differences for you?

[AqD]

Before I finish, I would just ask, would you agree to give away half your capital? Give half of Moscow, or London, or Paris or Berlin. I would very much like to see if the Germans would agree to give eastern Berlin back to the Russians

You can't give away something you don't own.

However, I think it's becoming a bigger problem to have Palestinians inside your state rather than outside. Are you certain that it's the result you want? To take all that back including, unavoidably, Palestinians?

[PointOfViewGun]

It's not surprising to see Netanyahu talking about hypocrisy and ignorance. Their longest battle is the one that they will keep on is to change people's perspectives and every word counts in that battle. They're trying to stop people from calling a spade a spade. No wonder he keeps accusing people of something that his own administration is guilty of.

[conon394]

I think you are being serious here, but you should learn that Athens was the capital of Attica, and (practically) the Delian League, and then its second empire (much smaller). It was never a capital of the Greek state prior to the 19th century. Contrast that to Constantinople which clearly was the capital of the Greek world for a millenium, and even if one counts (quite arbitrarily) from the age of the arab expansion, the last Byzantine-Sassadid war- ie the age of Heraclius- it still was the capital for longer than Jerusalem ever was for the Jewish people

Although to be fair the people who ran Byzantium as empire still called themselves Romans not Greek - they were a legacy of Rome not Greece. The fact Athens is best possible choice for a Greek capital since it is the place that historically was the center of Greek culture and the only place that came close to making a nation out of the morass of polis it faced. Byzantium was the capital of a Roman world admittedly one that tended to speak Greek but still Roman - even the name is a giva away since ita a Roman one not the Orginal Greek one

[AnthoniusII]

I wont judge Australia's foreig pollicy because i must admit I can't understand it thanks to its place far away from Mediteranean sea.
I can not know what interest may Australia have in that part of the world exept th enew foundings of Gas and Oil, Israel, Egypt,Cyprus,Libanon and Greece share more or less.
USA wants to control the new founded gas/oil that Cyprus/Israel will commonly exctract simply because:
Arabic oil gets less and less every year up to the finall end of it arround 2050AD.
We-as individuals- may think tha 2050 is quite ahead but states often create their long turn strategies before problems occur.
Australia may or may not want to have diplomatic relations to the states of the region to have a small cut (as buyer) of that recourse.
About the international and interstae relations I have to say this...
Please do not judge States the way you do for people....
There are NO friends in states affairs. All there are , are common interests.
Lets use Israel as example:
Israel is USA's loyal ally in that part of the world. Actually Arabic world is now devided to those that can live/co-exist with Israel and those that can not!
Egypt and Israel came closer because it better to avoid war and separate influence sphears instead of constantly fighting between those two!
Remember that the 2nd most loyal US ally was Turkey in the region....
But the last years the Turkish goverment tries to re-implement the Pan Turkish/Ottoman agenta!
That ment that Turkey wants to control ALL altaic nations as Turk and all Arab nations as Ottoman! US would not object to that plan unless IRAN would left out of that plan but Turkey had other preference.
Turkey , inorder to convince the Islamic World that is worthy as its ultimate leader, created the Mavi Marmara incident knowing that Israel puts its own interests above all "friendships"
and alliences! That incidenet though plus the Turkey's weapon-chemical weapons included- suplly to Islamic Rebels of Syria and finally the great aproach of Turkey with IRAN, created a fear to USA that its interests (gas/oil) in the eastern mediteranean sea are in danger from Turkey!!!!!
USA now promote a kind of noose in south of Turkey to keep Turkey away from those gas/oils deposits. For the 1st time in the US history Cyprus is a major player for the US interests because:
It connects Greece with Israel and cuts off Turkey from the open seas!
Its easier to control small Cyprus than the strong Turkey.
Cyprus already has trade pacts with Israel plus it has an honorable place in Arabic nations diplomacy!
Helping Cyprus, USA promotes the Greece-Israel military allience to protect the new founded resources plus Greeks leave the Russian influence for US one because US apeares as the Cyprus protector (through Israel) against Turkey and as a Greece ally agaisnt the Germanic policy of the EU in the region!!!!
I used that example to allow you see that foreign policy is a quite complicated issue.
Yesterday "friends" become the most hated ennemies of today or the opposite!!!!

[Kyriakos]

[...]
I used that example to allow you see that foreign policy is a quite complicated issue.
Yesterday "friends" become the most hated ennemies of today or the opposite!!!!

I'll use this to highlight that we are still Byzantine=Greek, cause it's the same plotting mayhem as always

[Toho]

Palestine should just give all its land to the Israelis and declare their lands Israel's.
of course once the Palestinians are suddenly Israelis by extension then it would make for a very interesting Jewish State and elections.

Anyways the point is that if Israel wants all of West Bank and Gaza then let them, it would work in favor of the Palestinians anyways.
They out number the Israelis and in an election numbers is the only thing that matters.

[Uriyaca]

Palestine should just give all its land to the Israelis and declare their lands Israel's.
of course once the Palestinians are suddenly Israelis by extension then it would make for a very interesting Jewish State and elections.

Anyways the point is that if Israel wants all of West Bank and Gaza then let them, it would work in favor of the Palestinians anyways.
They out number the Israelis and in an election numbers is the only thing that matters.

They do not outnumber us (there are 8 million jews and 4 million arabs at best in both Israel and the PA) but they might in the future considering their high rate of birth
In any case, rest your fears. Israel will never annex area a unless all Palestinians magically disappear

[Toho]

They do not outnumber us (there are 8 million jews and 4 million arabs at best in both Israel and the PA) but they might in the future considering their high rate of birth
In any case, rest your fears. Israel will never annex area a unless all Palestinians magically disappear

maybe I am bad at math but their total population is 11 million according to Wiki anyway and most of them are refugees... what do you would happen if even half of them decide to come back from exile?