Mission Impossible ?

[Dsturbed]

I have a Roman campaing. Year is 179 BC.
I try to invade egyptian region that under control of mighty(!) Arche Seleauka. I m transferring all my backbone troops from my homeland via ships. Then capturing a city, constructing, build some pity soldiers for backup. Then Selauka arriving with huge army, besieging my city , i m fighting. Usually i win. but i cannot retrain my principes, hastatis etc.. just build some hellenic hoplites, numidian skirmishers. But as you know thats not enough for hold the line. Selauka come again, come again come again.. I m transferring thousands soldiers from my lovely Italy... again again, then again..
I was conquered Europe with the soldiers who died here.
At least i pulled back from my 2 cities (paraitonion and memphis) and i demolished all building i can do. It was so boring.
So i m stack there and going crazy.
Is there any advice , ideas..

[Stath's]

Attack Cyprus (Salamis). Make a base for training Hoplitai (i think you can). Then transfer an army with ships against Sidon. This will make the Seleukids send their armies towards Sidon and not towards Egypt. Proceed with 1 city at a time, f.e. Paraitonion. You stabilize things in Paraitonion and then you make your move for Alexandria or Memphis. Use assassins to sabotage the barracks of Alexandria, Memphis and any other city near them.

A general opinion of mine is to always end a war, before starting another. Since you are fighting at Greece, Asia Minor and maybe western Africa, at the same time, thing should be and are difficult.

[QuintusSertorius]

Greek mercenaries are widely available, cheap and capable. Mercenary phalangites, mercenary hoplites, mercenary thureophoroi, mercenary peltastai. That's an entire battle line. Add mercenary Kretans, some slingers and whatever cavalry you can find. No need to retrain (just hire some more and merge them in to replace losses), no more worries about recruiting or depleting populations.

Kyrene and Kypros are the book-ends you need to control Egypt. Grabbing the islands in the Aegean is a good idea, too, since the AI rarely tries to take them back. More realistically, though, unless they're dead, try to recreate the Ptolemies. Use them as a buffer state between you and the Silver Death. It's much easier than conquest.

[Samariten]

You could also launch a theatre through Egypt and asia minor aswell as a naval invasion to take important cities as Antioch and Jerusalem. Attack from several fronts might force the selecuids to divided their forces. The thing is to hit their economy so they dont send everlasting stacks. You always have your core of roman soldiers, but make use of regional units to make logistics easier.

[Dsturbed]

Thanks for all advices. I m trying to invade west anatolia now. That was a blitzkrieg with 5 full army. I captured nikaea sardis byzantium ( dont touch macedons pergamum). Next target will be ankyra and sidon. This would be enjoyfull try for me. And as you say so my first priority strike all coastal cities in east mediterranean for economical cutthroat.
And one thing i want to say i hate to full of phalangites. Everytime everywhere i saw them. Especially royal ones. I m using 2 pricipes 2 skirmishers and if i m lucky to have 2 good cavalry for pin them down. Really really hard to beat them. Maybe if they dont have a phalanx formation advantages , all will be equal

[Boriak]

Only one thing needed here: achieve Marian reforms.

[Zrk2]

Only one thing needed here: achieve Marian reforms.

Yeah. It's 179 just groom some Pleb for the task and hope he makes consul soon. Then you can troll your way to a WC with your cohors reformata.

[athanaric]

Thanks for all advices. I m trying to invade west anatolia now. That was a blitzkrieg with 5 full army. I captured nikaea sardis byzantium ( dont touch macedons pergamum). Next target will be ankyra and sidon. This would be enjoyfull try for me. And as you say so my first priority strike all coastal cities in east mediterranean for economical cutthroat.

Remember if you don't want to keep a city, you can always give it to the closest allied or neutral faction nearby.
Also, I've noticed that there are Carthaginian barracks present in your settlements (in Ippone, for example, judging by your screenshot). Destroy them, they're useless for Rome and only clutter up your building browser.
As for troops, use Peltastai, Machimoi, Hippeis, and Hoplitai Haploi on the field (Hippeis suck, but they're the only cavalry you can recruit in Egypt prior to the Augustan Reforms AFAIK). As already mentioned, used mercenaries. Especially Galatian Naked Fanatics, they scare enemy infantry which will help in breaking pikemen formation (they're also good at just killing stuff). Also, Thracian Peltasts and Thracian lancers. All of those are available in Egypt as mercenaries. Akontistai are the best garrison units in the region. In Alexandria, you can recruit Peltastai, Machimoi and more with a tier 2 regional MIC, and Kretan Archers (!) if you upgrade said barracks to tier 4.

And one thing i want to say i hate to full of phalangites. Everytime everywhere i saw them. Especially royal ones. I m using 2 pricipes 2 skirmishers and if i m lucky to have 2 good cavalry for pin them down. Really really hard to beat them. Maybe if they dont have a phalanx formation advantages , all will be equal

Yes, they're badly broken. Most of this is due to the engine though, nothing much the EB team can/could do about it.

[Dsturbed]

Attack Cyprus (Salamis). Make a base for training Hoplitai (i think you can). Then transfer an army with ships against Sidon. This will make the Seleukids send their armies towards Sidon and not towards Egypt. Proceed with 1 city at a time, f.e. Paraitonion. You stabilize things in Paraitonion and then you make your move for Alexandria or Memphis. Use assassins to sabotage the barracks of Alexandria, Memphis and any other city near them.

A general opinion of mine is to always end a war, before starting another. Since you are fighting at Greece, Asia Minor and maybe western Africa, at the same time, thing should be and are difficult.

i m just at war with AS. Macedonia and Konion Hellenon never attacked me and i never think attack them. i m good with my neighbour

Greek mercenaries are widely available, cheap and capable. Mercenary phalangites, mercenary hoplites, mercenary thureophoroi, mercenary peltastai. That's an entire battle line. Add mercenary Kretans, some slingers and whatever cavalry you can find. No need to retrain (just hire some more and merge them in to replace losses), no more worries about recruiting or depleting populations.

Kyrene and Kypros are the book-ends you need to control Egypt. Grabbing the islands in the Aegean is a good idea, too, since the AI rarely tries to take them back. More realistically, though, unless they're dead, try to recreate the Ptolemies. Use them as a buffer state between you and the Silver Death. It's much easier than conquest.

Mercenary so expensive for me. you know i have a great fleet also.. i prefer long way. Transfer from Italy , Sicilia, and other islands

Only one thing needed here: achieve Marian reforms.

Yes but is there any tip for quick reform ?

I've just noticed something from the screenshot upthread: why so many ships? It's no wonder you're out of money if you're frittering it away on such large fleets.

Yes you re absolutly right, large fleet is so expensive like a black hole in space.. but i need to have them cause before Carthage, then later AS attacked all my ports , and try to cut my all logistics ways. i had to stop them. Now i m not in bad situtaion in my economic position. i can handle it for now.

Man you sure are expanding slowly. I had conquered all of Western Europe, Greece, North Africa, and Asia Minor by 199BC in one of my Roman campaigns. My advice is to exterminate all Egyptian settlements you conquer and set Type IV governments there. That should stabilize things a bit. Demolish all previously owned Egyptian or Selecuid barracks and government structures to earn some extra cash as they provide no benefits to you whatsoever. Since AI tends to max out its barracks first, you will usually get 4000 mnai for demolishing a barracks which is pretty good.
Are you having trouble dealing with phalanx units? Assign your levy hoplites on the front line in guard mode since they're expendable and flank with your actual Roman troops. Since there's no classic hoplite unit available in Egypt, your levy hoplites are going to have relatively low morale and will generally rout once they lose more than 60% of their units, so I advice you to have a 2nd line of troops behind them just in case your levy hoplites rout. Disable any enemy cavalry and destroy any non-phalanx units with your Roman troops and hit those annoying phalanx units from behind with slingers.
Lastly, I would advice against having war on multiple fronts. You are essentially having war in Greece with Macedon, Asia minor and Egypt with Selecuids, and mostly likely with Dacians in Central Europe. Go one by one slowly but methodically. Secure region by region.

Yes yess, i want play slowly, but i was not slow than i wanted. i want everything to be historical and realistic. thats is why i m choosing this mod.

Remember if you don't want to keep a city, you can always give it to the closest allied or neutral faction nearby.
Also, I've noticed that there are Carthaginian barracks present in your settlements (in Ippone, for example, judging by your screenshot). Destroy them, they're useless for Rome and only clutter up your building browser.
As for troops, use Peltastai, Machimoi, Hippeis, and Hoplitai Haploi on the field (Hippeis suck, but they're the only cavalry you can recruit in Egypt prior to the Augustan Reforms AFAIK). As already mentioned, used mercenaries. Especially Galatian Naked Fanatics, they scare enemy infantry which will help in breaking pikemen formation (they're also good at just killing stuff). Also, Thracian Peltasts and Thracian lancers. All of those are available in Egypt as mercenaries. Akontistai are the best garrison units in the region. In Alexandria, you can recruit Peltastai, Machimoi and more with a tier 2 regional MIC, and Kretan Archers (!) if you upgrade said barracks to tier 4.


Yes, they're badly broken. Most of this is due to the engine though, nothing much the EB team can/could do about it.

I was try this trick in Empire Total War and it has been very usefull. When i conquered Memphis, i offered to Ptolemiaos but he didnt accept my offer, i dont know whay !?

And yes you re right about carthage barracks i destroyed it.

[QuintusSertorius]

Mercenary so expensive for me. you know i have a great fleet also.. i prefer long way. Transfer from Italy , Sicilia, and other islands


Yes you re absolutly right, large fleet is so expensive like a black hole in space.. but i need to have them cause before Carthage, then later AS attacked all my ports , and try to cut my all logistics ways. i had to stop them. Now i m not in bad situtaion in my economic position. i can handle it for now.

Mercenaries are cheap if you're using them right away. If it takes longer than four turns to transport a unit to where it's needed (four turns of upkeep is the same as their recruitment cost), then you've wasted the money doing so because a mercenary in situ would have been the same price, and not required the maintenance of the ships doing the transporting.

You are wasting money on several fronts. Recruiting in your homelands and depleting those provinces of taxpayers. Spending long periods shipping those troops around, costing money in upkeep for them while they're doing nothing more useful than being transported. Using far too many ships, which are equal to the upkeep of 2-3 units each.

Disband all the ships that aren't involved in transport. Better yet disband them all (barring perhaps one to bring new generals to the fronts). Use the surplus generated to hire mercenaries where you need to do the fighting. You'll have more troops available, more money for hiring, and more tax revenues to pay for everything.

[Dsturbed]

Mercenaries are cheap if you're using them right away. If it takes longer than four turns to transport a unit to where it's needed (four turns of upkeep is the same as their recruitment cost), then you've wasted the money doing so because a mercenary in situ would have been the same price, and not required the maintenance of the ships doing the transporting.

You are wasting money on several fronts. Recruiting in your homelands and depleting those provinces of taxpayers. Spending long periods shipping those troops around, costing money in upkeep for them while they're doing nothing more useful than being transported. Using far too many ships, which are equal to the upkeep of 2-3 units each.

Disband all the ships that aren't involved in transport. Better yet disband them all (barring perhaps one to bring new generals to the fronts). Use the surplus generated to hire mercenaries where you need to do the fighting. You'll have more troops available, more money for hiring, and more tax revenues to pay for everything.

Hmm sounds logical . i never thought like that. Worth to try and i will. Thank you

[athanaric]

Yes but is there any tip for quick reform ?

There's a list of requirements in the EB FAQ. Other than that, send your candidates to a city with a Temple of Ceres (by default, Capua, Tolosa, and Salamis, for example) in order to acquire the Popularis trait. Then have them win some difficult or large scale battles for the command stars. Winning battles in autoresolve mode against small Eleutheroi forces (that periodically appear in Italy or elsewhere) could do the trick.

Yes you re absolutly right, large fleet is so expensive like a black hole in space.. but i need to have them cause before Carthage, then later AS attacked all my ports , and try to cut my all logistics ways. i had to stop them. Now i m not in bad situtaion in my economic position. i can handle it for now.

You should be fine if you max out roads, ports, and mines everywhere.

I was try this trick in Empire Total War and it has been very usefull. When i conquered Memphis, i offered to Ptolemiaos but he didnt accept my offer, i dont know whay !?

Can be difficult if the faction in question isn't bordering that specific province. In any case, try to give the settlement as a gift (unconditional!), along with 100 mnai.

[QuintusSertorius]

I've just noticed something from the screenshot upthread: why so many ships? It's no wonder you're out of money if you're frittering it away on such large fleets.

[ooji]

Man you sure are expanding slowly. I had conquered all of Western Europe, Greece, North Africa, and Asia Minor by 199BC in one of my Roman campaigns. My advice is to exterminate all Egyptian settlements you conquer and set Type IV governments there. That should stabilize things a bit. Demolish all previously owned Egyptian or Selecuid barracks and government structures to earn some extra cash as they provide no benefits to you whatsoever. Since AI tends to max out its barracks first, you will usually get 4000 mnai for demolishing a barracks which is pretty good.
Are you having trouble dealing with phalanx units? Assign your levy hoplites on the front line in guard mode since they're expendable and flank with your actual Roman troops. Since there's no classic hoplite unit available in Egypt, your levy hoplites are going to have relatively low morale and will generally rout once they lose more than 60% of their units, so I advice you to have a 2nd line of troops behind them just in case your levy hoplites rout. Disable any enemy cavalry and destroy any non-phalanx units with your Roman troops and hit those annoying phalanx units from behind with slingers.
Lastly, I would advice against having war on multiple fronts. You are essentially having war in Greece with Macedon, Asia minor and Egypt with Selecuids, and mostly likely with Dacians in Central Europe. Go one by one slowly but methodically. Secure region by region.

[QuintusSertorius]

That's not slow. In my Epeiros-as-Pergamon game, I didn't expand out of Mysia (my single starting province) until 230BC. Even now in the 220sBC I only have about seven provinces.

[ooji]

That's not slow. In my Epeiros-as-Pergamon game, I didn't expand out of Mysia (my single starting province) until 230BC. Even now in the 220sBC I only have about seven provinces.

Well either you're playing very passively or you're investing in something you shouldn't, like navy for example. AI is dumb. Take advantage of it.

[QuintusSertorius]

Well either you're playing very passively or you're investing in something you shouldn't, like navy for example. AI is dumb. Take advantage of it.

I'm roleplaying, and besides which there's no reason to rush. A fast game is a dull game to me, taking advantage of the AI by blitzing is no fun.

[Samariten]

I agree anyone can blitz, but that is like playing on easiest setting in a game. There is no fun in that. I never expand outside of Italy until i have polybian legions etc.

[Boriak]

While my conventional style is to play extremely slowly, I think for some factions it's essential that they blitz in the early game. Pontos, Baktria, Hayasdan, they don't stand a chance unless they punch Seleucids in the nuts while they're not looking.

Rome, however, is not one of those factions. You should be rolling in cash by now and unless you keep a huge fleet, you can easily outspend everyone else. If you're not keen on shipping troops from Italy to Africa (which I love to do: I ship Iberian troops to Greece and vice versa), make sure you achieve Marian reforms. This will enable you to train Post-Marian legions in virtually any province.

[QuintusSertorius]

Use Force Diplomacy, the diplomacy AI is borked beyond reason and won't even accept an offer that is in its interests most of the time.