Bugs Reports & Technical Help

**Ichon** · June 12, 2014, 01:36 AM

Custom battles currently do work. Sorry had to Edit my post here- custom battles were broken for awhile and I hadn't tried one yet since I'm back to see they are fixed.

Battles from campaign should work... with all the patches and hotfixes it is actually remarkably stable and after 20 test campaigns I only had a crash before turn 100 once and most campaigns ran 200 to 300 turns no problem.

Also I've never had a crash playing a battle yet- some silver surfers sure but not crash to desktop.

Run SS6.4 setup again and try reinstalling from that point... it should work. Everyone else that has reported issues eventually figured it out by doing install a couple times and making triple sure everything is in the right order and files copied into data file- not extracted directly into data. For some reason you have to copy the patches into a separate directory then copy into the data folder. First time I installed patches I didn't realize this part either and just extracted directly into data folder and crashed.

**Ambarenya** · June 12, 2014, 01:52 AM

Glass prior to 1000 CE is very rare but Arab and Indian glassware vessels and some small window panes are known from the 1100s while by 1200s Venetian glass industry has started and by late 1200s there are already references to spectacles in some letters as a relatively common item in Italy.

Glass prior to AD 1000 was not as rare as you might think, at least in the East. The Byzantines were highly skilled in the fashioning of glassware, since the artisans and craftsmen of Constantinople and other major Byzantine cities (being 'old Roman' cities) never lost the art. I would actually argue that Byzantine glassware was, at the very least, the equal of Arab glassware, if not its superior, since (as with many things) the Arabs probably originally learned their glassblowing techniques from former Byzantines during the various conquests and intellectual exchanges made during the first few centuries of the Caliphate.

Arabs also probably invented microscopes and spectacles or at least were the first whose records of the principles involved have survived to modern era. Probably Arabs in Spain or southern Italy left the knowledge to Italian traders and Venice established a guild for glass makers already in 1224. Florence became the center of trade for spectacles to other parts of Europe latest in early 1400s as we have already letters and records of large shipments by this point so probably the industry started much earlier as references to spectacles in Italy go back to 1200s.

Reading instruments were one of the great achievements of the Byzantines, so I wouldn't just go giving all the credit to the Arabs. For example, the Visby lenses are believed to have been fashioned by Byzantine craftsmen in the 10th or 11th Centuries, but there are also vague references to reading instruments in several Byzantine primary sources dating from the Late Macedonian and Komnenian period. They are a lot older than I think you realize.

Also, ever wonder why Venice became noted for its glassware? Venice was originally a Byzantine settlement, which nominally won its independence in the early 9th Century. It is highly likely that there had been a tradition of glassmaking even then, but the close interactions between the Empire and the Serene Republic during the Late Macedonian and especially the Komnenian period (10th-12th Centuries) definitely contributed the rise of the glass industry there. Furthermore, when Constantinople was sacked in AD 1204, a good number of Byzantine artisans settled in the Italian maritime republics, especially Venice, and further expanded the already growing glassblowing industry there. This is what established your now-famous Venetian glass.

**Lifthrasir** · June 12, 2014, 02:27 AM

Originally Posted by Ichon

Custom battles do not currently work. We will eventually fix that but every time we change EDU or unit models or mercenary pools (basically every update) we have to fix it for custom battles and we gave that up a few updates back.

Battles from campaign should work... with all the patches and hotfixes it is actually remarkably stable and after 20 test campaigns I only had a crash before turn 100 once and most campaigns ran 200 to 300 turns no problem.

Also I've never had a crash playing a battle yet- some silver surfers sure but not crash to desktop.

Run SS6.4 setup again and try reinstalling from that point... it should work. Everyone else that has reported issues eventually figured it out by doing install a couple times and making triple sure everything is in the right order and files copied into data file- not extracted directly into data. For some reason you have to copy the patches into a separate directory then copy into the data folder. First time I installed patches I didn't realize this part either and just extracted directly into data folder and crashed.

In addition to Ichon's post, you have to quit the game and return to Windows if you switch from a campaign game to a custom battle or do the contrary. Overwise the game crashes. Not sure why.

**MWY** · June 12, 2014, 03:22 AM

Custom battles should work. It's historical battles who perhaps won't work. Going into the campaign selection screen, then back to custom battles crashes the game. Same as the other way around. But this is a vanilla bug if I'm correct.

**Frostelis** · June 12, 2014, 04:01 AM

I have several bugged model/texture/animation reports

Welsh longbowmen have an extremely extended bow animation
Crossbowmen mercenaries have some sort of animation bug with their shield
Nubian spearmen look like they are made out of polymeric alloy metal. Only the models with no textures. Same for some Saracen captain models.
England's archer militia various upgrades look mismatched. As if they have the wrong textures in wrong places.

I know there are some others ,but I can't remember at the moment.

**GrafEdwin** · June 12, 2014, 03:59 PM

Found a few quirks. Playing as HRE.

Merc. Crossbowman crossbow cranks are floating.Attachment 308806

Welsh Spearmen

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**GrafEdwin** · June 12, 2014, 04:04 PM

Merc. Crossbowman from previous post.

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**Lifthrasir** · June 12, 2014, 10:51 PM

Thanks GrafEdwin and Frostelis for pointing this out

**Ichon** · June 13, 2014, 02:25 AM

Originally Posted by Ambarenya

Glass prior to AD 1000 was not as rare as you might think, at least in the East. The Byzantines were highly skilled in the fashioning of glassware, since the artisans and craftsmen of Constantinople and other major Byzantine cities (being 'old Roman' cities) never lost the art. I would actually argue that Byzantine glassware was, at the very least, the equal of Arab glassware, if not its superior, since (as with many things) the Arabs probably originally learned their glassblowing techniques from former Byzantines during the various conquests and intellectual exchanges made during the first few centuries of the Caliphate.

Also, ever wonder why Venice became noted for its glassware? Venice was originally a Byzantine settlement, which nominally won its independence in the early 9th Century. It is highly likely that there had been a tradition of glassmaking even then, but the close interactions between the Empire and the Serene Republic during the Late Macedonian and especially the Komnenian period (10th-12th Centuries) definitely contributed the rise of the glass industry there. Furthermore, when Constantinople was sacked in AD 1204, a good number of Byzantine artisans settled in the Italian maritime republics, especially Venice, and further expanded the already growing glassblowing industry there. This is what established your now-famous Venetian glass.

I made the same error as I was explaining about actually- glass being rare before 1000 should be glass windows were rare but not unknown. As for Byzantine glass industry I agree- most of the glass making areas where originally eastern Roman/Greek and obviously taken over with rise of Islam. As for spectacles being known and mentioned even before 1000 CE in Byzantine records- I'm totally unaware of that. Not completely surprised but I wonder exactly what we are talking about. Arabic writings were the first that I know of that clearly laid out optical principles but they could easily be copied and republished from copies of earlier Greek works now lost just that I've never seen mention of that before.

Actually I remember reading some story about Venetians prying into Byzantine glass making industry similar to the monks who first smuggled silk worms west as the Byzantines had monopolies on both silk and glass industries for a few centuries. Venetians bribed a Greek glassmaker to escape with some of his equipment and train men in Venice. Can't remember where that story is from and it is just as likely there were already some glass making industry in Italy just as in Germany, England, and France leftover from Roman era but Venice bribing craftsmen for some additional skills/technical expertise doesn't sound unlikely either.

Anyway- lets try to keep this thread on bugs from here on out and not go off on tangents- I started it so my fault this time.

On topic- I've noticed a few animation bugs as well Lifthrasir, did Sandy/Gemini units also come with different animation sets with same file names as existing so when replaced there are now some bugs?

**Lifthrasir** · June 13, 2014, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by Ichon

On topic- I've noticed a few animation bugs as well Lifthrasir, did Sandy/Gemini units also come with different animation sets with same file names as existing so when replaced there are now some bugs?

I'm not sure and unfortunately, I didn't have much time to have a look at it so far. For sure Sandy's units and DLV units in general use the Banzaï animations. It's more visible on skirmish units but actually all kind of units re concerned. So it wouldn't surprised me if some infantry or cavalry units have some issues as well. anyway, if I remember correctly, the entries should be different. However, it is also possible that some other kept the same "name".
I wish I could have more free time to check that faster.

**DaysBefore** · June 13, 2014, 06:00 PM

I've seen graphical errors with Welsh Spearmen, Archer Militia (And the upgraded levels thereof), and Dismounted English Milites

The spearmen are invisible at a medium distance, aside from floating hands, hats, and spears. At close range they are very messed up looking, with no recognizable textures, but not, like in most other cases, silver.

The Archer Militia has their textures mismatched around their body, and the Milites have floating shields attached to their forearms and clipping through their swords

**MatVego** · June 14, 2014, 05:52 AM

I have observed the following bugs:

1. From about 40 turns, army of Aragon, Dennmark and Germany can't return to their countries. Venice also have problem with this, because they stuck on the peninsula of Asia Minor, but a few turns ago they returned, however only with the general.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

2. In the 84'th turn, the Zenegid's general respawned in Wallachia for no reason.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

and I also found this map, it may be useful -http://www.euratlas.net/history/europe/1100/index.html

**stevietheconquer** · June 14, 2014, 11:03 AM

am not sure but i think the zenegid's general respawned in wallachia is a wrong spawn cordinates for script;--- No Heir Reinforcement,maybe faction zenegid was before a different faction and now still using the old faction spawn cordinates

**Koso** · June 14, 2014, 11:11 AM

Given the general's last name (Byzantine), to me it seems one of the Zengid's princesses married him and managed to make him pass over to their faction, thus making him come out of the Byzantine settlement.

**Ichon** · June 14, 2014, 12:26 PM

It does look like that general was married by a Zengid princess- that seems most likely explanation though we can double check scripts that is the first report and a bad script would make nearly everyone experience that on turn 84.

The Crusade armies unable to return to their home countries is a long standing issue... not sure if we can fix it with SSHIP as it exists in base MTW2 and basically is a flaw in the AI and pathfinding where paths past a certain length aren't calculated sometimes to save turn times. The longer the length of path we force the AI to calculate the longer the turn times especially on larger map.

**MWY** · June 14, 2014, 12:46 PM

I think so too, there is no script spawning zhengid generals there.

I have no clue how to fix the crusading armies sadly.

Welsh spearmen and miles pedites will be fixed in the new version.

**MatVego** · June 14, 2014, 01:31 PM

Surprise me that the crusading armies don't travel by ship, it's much faster than travelling by land, and by that I mean the coastal states (e.g. Aragon, Pisa, Venice). Although it may not be fixed, because it was also in vanilla.

@Koso Maybe you're right, but he came near the Byzantine settlement in turn 85, which doesn't change the fact that it could be a Zengid princess.

**trenktas** · June 14, 2014, 02:27 PM

how is it that neutral countries are ambushing me? basically starting war with ambush. even when i'm with crusading army. if you are ambushing yourself, you can choose not to attack, AI seems to always choose to fight even if the odds are horrible for them and they are not at war with me. and why on a crusade other crusading armies do not join you i a fight when taking the target settlement? you always need to fight alone. and now i'm playing with scotland, alied with hre, crusade against france which is a vassal of hre. hre join the crusade, but still alied with france, i besiege valencia (crusade target) and my alliance is broken with hre. only next turn other countries which had armies near valencia declare war against france, despite beeing on crusade for several turns already.

**Ichon** · June 14, 2014, 03:11 PM

For military support in Crusade you have to be allied with the faction to combine armies in 1 siege battle. Playing as Fatimids I had some tedious experiences vs Crusade where during 1 turn had to fight siege battle for the same city 4-5 times a couple turns in a row because the besieging armies did not combine in 1 attack. I think it makes it a bit easier to win as defenders but... if you read the history of the Crusades it is replete with examples of the various armies not cooperating and pursing their own interests. Main reason why most Crusades after 1st Crusade did not go so well in fact is that the armies from different places hardly ever worked together. Actually not too different from why Muslim armies were defeated many times as well until Zengdis and then Ayyubids under Saladin enforced cooperation.

Neutral faction armies not at war with you are ambushing your armies? Or do you mean rebels?

Crusade mechanics we have little control over. Basically you can join Crusade without declaring war and just wander around as long as you head in the general direction of the target. Then when you arrive sit there for several turns doing nothing since your troops are free upkeep and you will get Crusade reward as long as an army on Crusade is the one which captures the city from the non-Christian faction. If rebellion happens or another Christian faction not excommunicated takes the target city the Crusade ends unsuccessfully. If all Crusade armies are defeated the Crusade ends unsuccessfully. Otherwise I think Crusade can continue forever though if you wait long enough eventually some AI army is usually successful. If you don't want to wait I suggest allying with Crusade army that arrives to target first and won't cause problems for your later expansion.

We might decrease the number of valid Crusade targets at some point. I favor a relatively short list myself- Jerusalem, Seville, Rome, Antioch, maybe Alexandria. Having too many targets means many Christian excommunicated factions will experience Crusade against which I don't view as very historical. Also if a Muslim faction expands hugely into Europe through Hungary for example calling a Crusade to Antioch of Jerusalem would still do something and is better than alternative of so many inter-Christian Crusades due to excommunication. Jihads would have a bit shorter list as well- Seville, Constantinople, Marrakesh, Mecca, Cairo, Baghdad.