SSHIP - General Discussion

**Ruprecht** · August 22, 2019, 10:03 PM

I just started my first SSHIP campaign as crusader states, but noticed there are no siege engines available to construct at the siege works. We don't get access to trebuchet, or any other flingy/shooty things ?

**Lifthrasir** · August 22, 2019, 11:45 PM

If my memory serves me well, you need to build a carpenter shop (logging camp upgrade) before to be able to build a siege engine workshop.

**Ruprecht** · August 23, 2019, 02:11 AM

It appears that the other prerequisite for the Trebuchet (at least for crus states) is for the first_rudder event. I'm not familiar with the dating used for events, but I'm guessing 48 means 48 turns until the event triggers.

**Jurand of Cracow** · August 23, 2019, 03:39 AM

It means 96 turns.
If you're interested in the siege issues, the pertinent discussion is also here.

**Ruprecht** · August 23, 2019, 11:44 AM

Oh it's 96 turns. Thanks for clarifying.

**GenPattonx** · August 24, 2019, 04:37 AM

My way of solving the settlements from revolting was to change the: descr_settlement_mechanics.
This mod was not enjoyable for me with the cities being mad all the time.

**Ruprecht** · August 25, 2019, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by Lifthrasir

So basically, you're rising an issue just for a missing information message?

It might easier just to setup a message like the one for "End of a dynasty?" to represent a new one replacing the other

And for info, JoC has started to implement information messages about the game features. They will pop up during the first few turns in the next release.

Well I have no documented information on the man who is inheriting the throne of my dynasty, no documentation of his wife, how many kids they have, how old they are, what their names are, if they are boy or girl and when they will be coming of age. For me, that's a pretty glaring issue.

I'm reporting it as a bug because a mechanic this un-intuitive couldn't possibly be intended. It's either a bug in the base game, or a mod integration issue. Either way I felt it best to report on it as it's not conducive to good gameplay, And imo , makes very little sense.

What tradition?
Historically, dynaties didn't last forever and there are numerous examples of a family replacing another for ruling. Not to mention other systems such as republics or by electing the ruler like for the HRE. What about marriages as well? Not to mention how it worked in the Muslim realms.

About the game mechanic, you're basically reporting something due to the game mechanic. I don't know if it can be done but another option when there are male kids under age would be to appoint a temporary ruler, a tutor if you like, for the time the oldest kid reaches the right age to rule himself

That is accurate. It happened many times even if the tutor kept the power in some cases by eliminating the heir

To my knowledge, dynasties in medieval period always handed succession through bloodlines first and adoption when that was not possible, though the latter was frequent, it wasn't following the preferred method of succession. If it was, bloodline succession wouldn't proceed both adoption or any other right to rule. Succession without adoption or bloodline for a western dynasty would be the exception and not the rule. It follows the same logic of modern day inheritance, in that family take precedence of becoming benefactors. The game mechanics are structured to borrow from this premise because it's both logical and consistent with reality. It also translates into an intuitive system for governing your empire.

**Jurand of Cracow** · August 26, 2019, 12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Ruprecht

To my knowledge, dynasties in medieval period always handed succession through bloodlines first and adoption when that was not possible, though the latter was frequent, it wasn't following the preferred method of succession. If it was, bloodline succession wouldn't proceed both adoption or any other right to rule. Succession without adoption or bloodline for a western dynasty would be the exception and not the rule. It follows the same logic of modern day inheritance, in that family take precedence of becoming benefactors. The game mechanics are structured to borrow from this premise because it's both logical and consistent with reality. It also translates into an intuitive system for governing your empire.

I think rebellions were ubiqutous in the Middle Ages and the rule of direct descendants of a ruler would last 0 or very few generations. Inheriting a kingdom would in most cases be a difficult and bloody affair. There're always dozens of people wanting the job, starting with the brothers of the guy (as a result we get the Ottoman behaviour of killing all the brothers by a new ruler at times in 16th century, or the Byzantine rulers gauging the eyes of his brothers earlier, or so many "blind" rulers in Hungary or Kiev). The deterministic mechanics should not have a place in a historical game - but it is through the "heir" attribute, so leaving possiblity of rebellions and some variability in who is going to be the heir (made by the game engine) is a right choice.

**Lifthrasir** · August 26, 2019, 01:16 AM

Originally Posted by Ruprecht

Well I have no documented information on the man who is inheriting the throne of my dynasty, no documentation of his wife, how many kids they have, how old they are, what their names are, if they are boy or girl and when they will be coming of age. For me, that's a pretty glaring issue.

I'm reporting it as a bug because a mechanic this un-intuitive couldn't possibly be intended. It's either a bug in the base game, or a mod integration issue. Either way I felt it best to report on it as it's not conducive to good gameplay, And imo , makes very little sense.

There's no problem to report it. I'm just pointing the fact that this is not a bug but rather a game mechanic thing. Basically, if you have a FL with no male kid or with under aged male kid when he dies, then the game will (randomly?) choose a general to replace him. If that general is not a family member, then he just pops up in the family tree with no warnings.
Beside a message like the one for "End of a Dynasty" with a bit of scripting, I can't see what can be done. However, we won't include any general as a family member at the start of the game if he wasn't in real history. The other point is that we also try to keep the script as 'light' as possible in order to keep AI turns as short as possible.

**Lifthrasir** · August 29, 2019, 01:27 AM

For those who haven't noticed it yet, I've posted some info about the next release here.
If you want to comment, please, use this thread in priority. Thanks in advance.

**Domeric_Bolton** · August 29, 2019, 06:50 AM

I dont know if it has been addressed in the pages before, I only checked back two - but were you able to tackle the visual discrepancies between units? You have very detailed rusichi units in your mods, next to *very* blandly reskinned vanilla ones. This not only highly immersion breaking, but also just an eyesore.

I know this is a huge undertaking, so please dont take me as coming off petulant, I was just really thrown off by this the last time I played the Mod (I know this is an inherited problem from SS vanilla).

If you have not managed to do this, I'd like to offer my help in BMDB work, leeching more visually appropriate models from other mods.

**Lifthrasir** · August 29, 2019, 07:27 AM

No, we haven't yet. We wanted to get ride of most of the issues and incoherences first in order to get a clean basis before to develop the mod further. The next version won't be perfect but we heading toward the right direction.
Regarding more specifically your question, the goal in the long term is to get ride of the vanilla units. We need to clean the EDU first in order to implement more specific rosters per faction and an AoR system. In parallel and from that stage, we should be able to re-work the aesthetic of the models for a better homogeneity - I'd say

However, this is quite ambitious and won't be done shortly. We're only 3 dev with limited free time.

**sullivanclan1** · August 29, 2019, 10:06 AM

I like it so far! Will you add settlements like calais, montgomery, lyon, brest, preslav, sofia, kaunus, vallolodid, and into the new release?

**Lifthrasir** · August 29, 2019, 01:17 PM

No, because we have already reached the game limits. The only way to proceed that way would be to add permanent stone forts (PSF) on the map, using a city model and with an invisible agent to give it its proper name. The bad side of this is that the AI seems unable to deal properly with PSF's.
That's not a priority for now. There are still many other points to work on before to think about this.

**sullivanclan1** · August 29, 2019, 03:41 PM

What else will the team be working on?

**Dekhatres** · August 29, 2019, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by Domeric_Bolton

I dont know if it has been addressed in the pages before, I only checked back two - but were you able to tackle the visual discrepancies between units? You have very detailed rusichi units in your mods, next to *very* blandly reskinned vanilla ones. This not only highly immersion breaking, but also just an eyesore.

I know this is a huge undertaking, so please dont take me as coming off petulant, I was just really thrown off by this the last time I played the Mod (I know this is an inherited problem from SS vanilla).

If you have not managed to do this, I'd like to offer my help in BMDB work, leeching more visually appropriate models from other mods.

what units would you leech and from what mods ? just a few examples

do you have the required permissions tho ? you need that for public releases

i like many of the older unit models more, current western units for example are so skinny and tiny they're like children, colors are also sort of washed up all brown and grey instead of the more vivid vanilla colors, especially the shield and the surcoat heraldry colors

**Lifthrasir** · August 30, 2019, 12:59 AM

Originally Posted by sullivanclan1

What else will the team be working on?

Not in order: units rosters, animations, AoR system, crowns, remaining known issues, etc...

**sullivanclan1** · August 30, 2019, 09:57 PM

Will there be any new units for each faction?

**Lifthrasir** · August 30, 2019, 11:35 PM

Not yet.

**Lusitanio** · August 31, 2019, 12:16 AM

Do you guys know anything about how the inquisitors work? I know Bellum Crucis uses a type of agent that you can use to kill your own Generals and I think they are using the inquisitor agent to do that but I have no more info on that and would like to know more about how they do it.